This might sound like a silly idea to some of our gun experts, but... What if a pump action mechanism became popular enough in an ATL to be used not only for shotguns, but for repeating rifles as well ? And when I say repeaters, I mean both civilian and military issue ones. How, for instance, would a WWI-like conflict be different if soldiers had to "pump" instead of "working that bolt" while dispossing of the bullet and reloading ?
Plausibility check: Repeating rifles with pump action instead of bolt-action ?
- Thread starter Petike
- Start date
RamscoopRaider
Donor
If it's a rifle it's usually called a slide action rather than a bolt action
Possible but they would get replaced rather quickly unless you were using a box magazine as Spitzer pointed rounds and tube magazines sometimes have issues with each other, and Spitzer pointed rounds are too useful not to be adopted
Anyways you might see slamfiring if they have a removable disconnect or no disconnect, and the extra ROF might make close range fighting more interesting
Be easier for lefthanded soldiers to use
Slide action is more mechanically complicated, especially when you have a box magazine instead of a tube magazine.
You could get higher ROF out of trained troops with slide action arms, but they'd be more expensive. And really, doctrine in military establishments didn't favor rate of fire until WW2 at the earliest.
The various chiefs of staff figured that giving the soldiers more ammunition and ROF would just make them waste more ammo, and not focus on their accuracy drills. Which, in practical combat, turned out to be not worth much, but it took a long time for them to figure that basic infantry grunts needed firepower too, and not just machine gunners.
You could get higher ROF out of trained troops with slide action arms, but they'd be more expensive. And really, doctrine in military establishments didn't favor rate of fire until WW2 at the earliest.
The various chiefs of staff figured that giving the soldiers more ammunition and ROF would just make them waste more ammo, and not focus on their accuracy drills. Which, in practical combat, turned out to be not worth much, but it took a long time for them to figure that basic infantry grunts needed firepower too, and not just machine gunners.
I'm a bit nervous about having the pointed noses of bullets resting against the percussion cap of the next one in the tube, but I suppose a pump-action weapon doesn't have to use a tube magazine.
Box magazines and charger clips speed up reloading a good deal, so not being able to use those might be an issue as well.
Box magazines and charger clips speed up reloading a good deal, so not being able to use those might be an issue as well.
elkarlo
Banned
Also, bolt actions seem to be the most accurate type of chambering a round. I wonder how well a pump would do compared to a bolt action circa 1900?
Slide actions are generally the weakest of the various types of repeating, even simply breech loaded, rifles.They have difficulties handling the chamber pressures that a bolt action can, thanks to the basics of the bolt's "locking Lug" design (an issue they share with lever actions).
This has been, to a degree, overcome with modern metallurgy, but the added layer of compexity, the weaker design, the vastly more difficult to clean action and magazine, and the rather unfortunate tendency of weapons with tubular magazines to fail rather spectacularly when loaded with spitzer bullets (and the spitzer bullet shape dramatically improves the performance of a round, especially in the FMJ configuration required under international law) all argue against the pump/slide and/or lever action for a main infantry weapon.
Where the pump could have found a home was as a "sub gun" carbine, chambered for a light, maybe even pistol, round for use by trench clearing troops. In that role the lack of a high powered round, the handiness of the design, and the far faster rate of fire could have been quite useful, at least until someone came up with a true submachine gun.
This has been, to a degree, overcome with modern metallurgy, but the added layer of compexity, the weaker design, the vastly more difficult to clean action and magazine, and the rather unfortunate tendency of weapons with tubular magazines to fail rather spectacularly when loaded with spitzer bullets (and the spitzer bullet shape dramatically improves the performance of a round, especially in the FMJ configuration required under international law) all argue against the pump/slide and/or lever action for a main infantry weapon.
Where the pump could have found a home was as a "sub gun" carbine, chambered for a light, maybe even pistol, round for use by trench clearing troops. In that role the lack of a high powered round, the handiness of the design, and the far faster rate of fire could have been quite useful, at least until someone came up with a true submachine gun.
Delta Force
Banned
If your question is more about rapid firing rifles than a specific action design you might want to consider the straight pull action. Straight pull combines the reliability and accuracy of bolt action with the firing rate of pump and lever actions. Straight pull designs are basically like bolt actions except the bolt is simply moved forward and backwards without rotating.
Back in the late '90s, Sommer & Ockenfuss made a bull-pup, clip-fed rifle capable of taking up to a 300 WinMag cartridge. The damthang was very accurate, but, as a previous poster noted, a bit hard to shoot prone, especially as the pump was activated by moving the pistol grip fore and aft. Not many made, hard to get, clips impossible, but great fun.
The Remmington 760/762/7600 series of pump action rifles says yes. They have rotating bolts with front locking lugs, and fewer moving parts than an AK, and from what I've seen of the diagrams, further room for simplification. I could have easily seen a WWI version in service.
The biggest problem would be where to fit the bayonet.
The biggest problem would be where to fit the bayonet.
marathag
Banned
They were using the Rem 870s rather differently than the rifles would be...
But not unreliable in the same muck that the traditional rifles lived in
Awesome.
I knew there had to be at least some working OTL examples.True, true...
