Five Colors for a Dime: A Comic Book Timeline (Redux)

[neamathla]

Escape Comics (circa 1974)


Escape superheroes

Escape is still owned by its founders, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. While their titles sold well, it was the absorption of Magazine Enterprises in the late 1950s that stabilized Escape. The addition of Jerry Iger allowed Simon and Kirby to work on their books without worrying about finances. This stability lead to an explosion of creativity especially when the superhero genre returned. By the 1970s, it was one of the leading comic companies. While some genres such as romance had begun to fade at other companies, Escape's creativity allowed them to flourish. Escape established the idea that having a magazine line could be profitable. Escape's more popular magazine characters were Bullseye (moved over from their comic line); Etrigan the Demon; Kamandi; Devil Dinosaur; and Brother Power, the Geek. Within Escape's comic line, the New Gods are their most popular non-superhero characters. This series is sometimes called the "Cosmic Kingdom". After a five year run, Kirby has turned control over to Jim Starlin who has proved to be the perfect choice.

Escape's premiere team is the Challengers of the Unknown (Challs). Many of the elements presented in the their title were counter to the conventions of the time. For example, the Challs had publicly known identities. For the most part, the team lineup remained unchanged. The same was not true for Escape's other major team, the Protectors. Initially, the team consisted of Blue Beetle, Flame, Green Mask, Fly, and Phantom Lady. A little over year later, Hawkeye and Power Man had replaced the Flame and Green Mask. Other members are Coal Tiger, Hercules, Kraken, Lady Marshal, Mr. Mercury, Scarlet Witch, and Wasp. Escape's major solo heroes included Scarlet Surfer, Spyman, the Fighting American, and Speedboy.

 

[Kalvan]

Hmm...

Let me guess the powers of the Challengers:

Mr. Fantastic: Super Streching

Mimic: People Shapeshifter like Mystique, Madam Rouge, or X-Men's Changeling/Morph

Iceman: Freezing Powers (Obviously)

Crystal: Diamond body a-la-Emma Frost

Beast: Super Strength, possibly ape or big cat like alternate form.


Now for individual questions:

Bullseye:

1. Obviously, this character won't be a clown with concentric circles on his torso wielding a bow, or a masked Irish luchador with crosshairs on his forehead who can throw anything under 10 lbs at anyone so long as the range is less than 300 yads and the target is not the title character, right?

The Fly:

1. Is he due for a disco-age makeover consisting of compound eyes, drinking mouthparts, afro, bellbottoms, and platform shoes?

Coal Tiger:

1. Does he inspire a Coal Tiger Party of Self-Defense?
2. Does T'challa have to deal Democratic, Communist, or any other sort of revolutionaries? Remember, just because Wakanda was never a European colony, doesn't mean it won't have those kinds of problems (Cough Cough, Liberia)
3. What are Wakanda's relationships with South Africa? Zaire? Uganda?
4. What is T'challa's and/or the Wakanda Elders' stance on, ahem, "Traditional Womanhood Rites?"

Hercules:

1. Did the Thirteen Labors still happen?
2. Can he visit both of his wives in Elysium, or did one of them go to Tartarus?
3. Is his relationship with Zeus as rocky as Thor's was OTL with Odin?
4. Does he have have to rely on his bow and/or staff the way Silver Age Thor does with Mjolnir?

Hawkeye:

1: Is Nate Lester still originally a carnival side-show, or was he a black-ops archery sniper?

Mr. Mercury:

1. I thought DC owned the rights to Quality characters. What happened to Max Mercury and why didn't Quality or DC fire off a Cease and Desist Order?

Scarlett Witch:

1. So, who is her love intrest in this continuity, and is she going to give birth to imaginary children by a robot ten years down the line in real time?

Lady Marshal:

1. What's her backstory and gimmick (if any)

Phantom Lady:

1. Which one is she based off of?

Wasp:

1. Does she have a spouse in TTL, and if so, does he treat her right?

Power Man:

1. So, is he a brick, or does he have energy related powers?

Spyman:

1. Unless that suit has camo or invisibility, why the heck would he he wear it?

Speedboy:

1. Did he start out as Fighting American's sidekick?

 

[Kalvan]

DC's policy was in the 50's/60's was if it worked, repeat it. So, when Batwoman/Batgirl was success, DC introduced Supergirl, Aquagirl, Queen Arrow, and Miss Arrowette. Supergirl was a hit right off the bat. Aquagirl took a while, but eventually took off. Queen Arrow was a complete failure. Miss Arrowette had a trio of appearances, but never caught on.

Oh well. How long will it take for DC to start publishing adult superheroines uther than Liberty Belle that neither appropriate a male superhero's schtick nor are in the shadow of one in any way?

In 1971, after they failed to prevent the accidental death of a peace activist, the team disbanded. When the villainous Gargoyle returned, Speedy was forced to form a new team. This is the current team (Beast Boy, Insect Queen, Raven, Speedy, and Starfire).

In other words, the reason why the OTL 70's version imploded and the Wolfman/Parez version was formed, albeit with a different villain. Does this mean Marv Wolfman is writing this version? And why not have Joanie Swift and Batgirl join back in too?

Snip.

There is something coming up in the next part of the Bronze Age that I think you will be able to use for Robbie Reed.

Looking forward to it.

Snip.

1. Bullseye is known as Crackshot in TTL, but otherwise the same. Merlyn is unchanged. We have not reached the time periods when Duke of Oil and Brick were created, so I have not made a decision on their creation.
2. GA and Speedy are on very good terms, much like Batman/Robin relationship of the 1960s/1970s.

So does Crackshot still have the red ball on his nose and the concentric circles on his clown outfit?

1. No, she is involved with Green Arrow (ala Black Canary).

Well, it's just that you put her next to Johnny Quick is all.

1. As of the mid-1970s, Plas has only been a member of the Crusaders.
2. He is the humorous character in a crazy world.
[/QOUTE]

Will there be this big Plastic Man cartoon in the late '70s-80s?

1. Initially he wasn't. J'onn returned to Mars in the late 1960's to find his fellow Martians had vanished without a trace. So, he believes that he is the last Martian.

Oh well. I didn't care for her in her comic debut, but Miss Martian's time on Cartoon Network's Young Justice has managed to finally distinguish her from both Starfire II and the DCAU Supergirl in terms of personality.

1. I am using the Gar's original origin.
2. No. This Robotman is Robert Grayson. Neither Negative Man nor Mento exist ITTL.

Which also means no Brain, Monsieur Malla, or Madame Rouge.

1. Her love interest is Ben Jackson, the brother of Jericho. In the near future, he will assume the identity of Blackstar.

Looking forward to it.

1. Initially, he was gadgeteer hero. Later, he began weld electricity via his costume. At this point, Jericho is still wearing a white full body uniform. Around 1971, the writers dropped his gadgets and instilled him electrical powers. So, think 1950s Batman evolving into Black Lightning.

In other words, he goes from being Bruce Wayne to being Kirk Langstrom?

1. She had a costume identity, but it was dropped when DC initiated the New Trend.
2. No. She is from an extended loving family who are located in the southeastern United States. Her main archfiend is called the Changeling who claims that to be a supernatural being. In reality, she is not.
[/QOUTE]

1. So what's her gimmick?
2. Might she be a part of that Clay family who sent sons to both sides of the Civil War, and had multiple candidates for president from anong its numbers? If so, her reactions to the Civil Rights era needed to have been really fleshed out. And her pithy reactions to the actions and words of the boxer now known Mohammad Ali Hajj, even if only in thought bubbles needs to be shown!

Snip.

I have been remiss in my not crediting some the microheroes I have been using. I guess I have selected about 150 microheroes for display. Only about quarter were done by me. Most of the preexisting characters I got from DC Microheroes Wiki, Marvel Microheroes Wiki, Microheroes Compendium Blog, and Golden Age Heroes and Zeroes. In some cases where I couldn't come up with a design, I borrowed them from Omniverse Chronicles. For the most part, none of costume are set in stone. Design advice is always welcomed.

 

[neamathla]

Mighty Comics (circa 1974)


Mighty superheroes

Throughout its existence, Mighty has been the junior partner to Archie Comics. Originally, Mighty was just an imprint of Archie. In 1974, Disney purchased Archie and Mighty was transformed into a new company. Ironically, while an imprint of Archie, Mighty was allowed more freedom to push the envelope. The new head of Mighty is much more conservative, preferring to keep the status quo. Unlike other companies, Mighty has never published titles in the humor, teen, or romance genres. Those genres were always left to Archie. They have also decided to wait and see how DC and Charlton perform before creating a magazine line. Almost all of Mighty's popular characters are within the superhero genre. The major exception is their marquee war team, Sgt. Nick Wilde and his Howling Commandos.

The preeminent superteam of the Mighty Universe is the Avengers. The Black Hood, Comet, Fox, and Shield banded together to defeat a rampaging Thor. Loki had cast a spell of amnesia and rage on Thor. Once Thor was cured, Loki was brought to justice. The five heroes formed the Avengers. Over the following decade, thirteen new members would be added. In order of induction, they would be Firefly, Blackjack, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Steel Sterling, Falcon, Hawk, Dove, Thing, Mighty Man, Captain Flag, Wizard, and Captain Atom. Mighty's second most popular team, the THUNDER Agents, is less a team and more a collection of individuals. They all work for the secretive THUNDER, but rarely appear in groups more than three. The various agents are Amphibian, Crow, Dynamo, Lightning, Menthor, and NoMan. The final major team is the Cavalry of the Atom. The Cavalry is an all-mutant team. They are led by the enigmatic Professor. Its members include Angel, Bob Phantom, Cyclops, Fireball, and Mighty Girl. Mighty has two very popular superheroes that thus far have never joined any team. They are Doctor Doom and the Web.

 

[Kalvan]

So, with Chris Claremont and Len Wein at Charlton, we won't see the characters introduced in Giant Size X-Men#1 joining the Cavalry, and with John Byrne still not joining Mighty yet, something tells me that the Cavalry of the Atom is still stuck in the doldrums storywise. Did they even bother killing off Professor X for the first time, yet?

One thing about Hawk and Dove, I thought Kirby came up with them OTL at DC. Shouldn't they be at Escape? And besides, Cloak and Dagger always felt more appropriate for Mighty.

I think that after my first stint at All-American, I'll move over to Mighty. It looks like they need me....

Anyway, on to individual characters:

Thor:

Unless that's a Golden Turban on his head (Representing the fact that late Pre-Christian Vikings did wear them), you managed to make him look even less like his original mythological version, and more like Gilgamesh. Where's Mjolnir?


Comet:

Does Tony still change powersuits as often as he changes his socks?

Shield:

What is Bruce's backstory and schtick this time?

Blackjack:

Is Ted Kord still Jewish?

Black Hood:

What is Clint's background this time?

Fox:

Does she have Patsy Walker's powerset (during the times that she has one OTL), or is just a badass normal?

Thing:

Are he and Reed two seperate people timesharing the same body, or is Bruce simply the ultimate brick?

Mighty Man:

I'm guessing he's a brick and the equivelant to either Supreme/Hyperion or an actual Silver Age Sentry

Wizard:

He looks like a robot than an actual magic user. Is he the Mighty version of Vision?

Captain Atom:

I'm guessing he's the equivelant to Mar-Vel of the Kree, but with Icon's politics since Ditko probably drew him to start with.

Captain Flag:

Does he work for THUNDER?

Bob Phantom:

Based on his civillian ID, I'd say his power is phasing. Might "Pryde" have been originally "Stoltz" like OTL, or "Ap Rhyd'?

Mighty Girl:

Is she a Briquette, or does she have OTL Jean Gray's powerset?

Lightning:

Is he a speedster, or does he have electric superpowers?

Raven:

What's his powerset, and who came first, Craig Lawson or Lilith Clay?

 

[Brady Kj]

Kalvan, The Wizard looks exactly like Shade, the Changing Man. I know very little about him, though.

Neamathla,
1) Will there be anything like the DC Implosion?
2) Is The Thing TTL's version of the Hulk, with a scientist named Reed Richards turning into a blue-eyed monster and back? Based on the torn pants, I assume he frequently transforms, and can't control it.
3) Wasn't Dr. Doom the name of a Cavalry villain? Now who's their villain?
4) I've noticed you've done a lot of mixing and matching of Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Doom Patrol names into your teams. Are these clues to the characters' traits, or just whimsy?
5) Do the Challengers have powers? I assumed they didn't.
6) Will we see versions of characters from The New X-Men popping up somewhere? Aside from Colossus, of course.
7) Is Hercules a New God?
8) Are Wanda and Pietro Markovian royalty?
9) Can you give Mr. Miracle a name like Mr. Escape, or something? I do like that guy.
10) I just noticed you misunderstood my question about rebooting. I wasn't asking why All American used old names for new characters. I was asking why All American stopped using any of its old characters, even Wonder Woman. Surely, at least one of its superheroes was successful enough to be published continuously? Otherwise, how would they have gotten the money to purchase Timely? I know I said I'd let this slide, but that was before I saw there was a misunderstanding.

PS I like the new Steel Sterling, and how Xavier looks like Caulder. Although the latter is a major loss to representation of the bald community, it is a plus for the beard community.

 

[neamathla]

Hmm...

Let me guess the powers of the Challengers:

Mr. Fantastic: Super Streching

Mimic: People Shapeshifter like Mystique, Madam Rouge, or X-Men's Changeling/Morph

Iceman: Freezing Powers (Obviously)

Crystal: Diamond body a-la-Emma Frost

Beast: Super Strength, possibly ape or big cat like alternate form.

You are five for five. The Beast's super strength is only in his transformative shape. The shape is similar to Gorilla-Man from Tales to Astonish #28 and 30.

Now for individual questions:

Bullseye:

1. Obviously, this character won't be a clown with concentric circles on his torso wielding a bow, or a masked Irish luchador with crosshairs on his forehead who can throw anything under 10 lbs at anyone so long as the range is less than 300 yads and the target is not the title character, right?

1. IOTL, Bullseye was Simon & Kirby's western hero. His self-name title was one of the four titles that Mainline Comics produced. The character was repeated targeted by the anti-comics forces. For TTL, I saw no reason to change the character. However, if you are referring to the GA villain (who ITTL is known as Crackshot), his first few appearances were in rodeo clown motif. He reappeared in 1950 wearing a tux and domino mask. Today, he wears red and silver suit. He has the ability to hit anything he aims at.


Bullseye #1

The Fly:

1. Is he due for a disco-age makeover consisting of compound eyes, drinking mouthparts, afro, bellbottoms, and platform shoes?

1. That would be kind of "Super".

Coal Tiger:

1. Does he inspire a Coal Tiger Party of Self-Defense?
2. Does T'challa have to deal Democratic, Communist, or any other sort of revolutionaries? Remember, just because Wakanda was never a European colony, doesn't mean it won't have those kinds of problems (Cough Cough, Liberia)
3. What are Wakanda's relationships with South Africa? Zaire? Uganda?
4. What is T'challa's and/or the Wakanda Elders' stance on, ahem, "Traditional Womanhood Rites?"

1. I do think it was funny that Stan Lee temporarily changed the character's name to the Black Leopard to avoid confusion with the group.
2. Mostly a communist threat. Ethiopia is one of the countries I am using as a template for Wakanda. I am still placing it in northeast Africa.
3. As of the mid-1970s, Wakanda's relations with South Africa and Zaire can be described as hostile at best. Their relationship with Uganda and Katanga could be best described as strained. ITTL, the Congo Crisis preceded differently. One result was an independent Katanga abet under foreign control. Uganda has fared a little better. Amin failed in his coup attempt and was killed. Uganda remained a "democracy". The economy is stronger as the South Asian expulsion never occurred. Unfortunately, South Africa is very similar to OTL. Dag Hammarskjold did not die in TTL, but he was not re-elected 1961. His replacement was U Thant. For reasons of health, U Thant did not run for a third term. Chile's Felipe Herrera would be chosen to secede him.
4. T'Challa has always been portrayed as a progressive leader, this is unchanged in TTL. So, I would image upon his accession to leadership, he would have outlawed it.

Hercules:

1. Did the Thirteen Labors still happen?
2. Can he visit both of his wives in Elysium, or did one of them go to Tartarus?
3. Is his relationship with Zeus as rocky as Thor's was OTL with Odin?
4. Does he have have to rely on his bow and/or staff the way Silver Age Thor does with Mjolnir?

1. Yes. Hercules is the demi-god of myth.
2. I don't see why not.
3. Yes, many of the OTL Thor stories are "refurbished" for Hercules in TTL.
4. No, but they do appear as needed by the story.

Hawkeye:

1: Is Nate Lester still originally a carnival side-show, or was he a black-ops archery sniper?

Neither, he uses the Green Arrow's Silver Age origin (Starfish Island). Since Kirby was not at DC to change it, DC kept Green Arrow's Golden Age origin intact.

Mr. Mercury:

1. I thought DC owned the rights to Quality characters. What happened to Max Mercury and why didn't Quality or DC fire off a Cease and Desist Order?

1. Max Mercury was originally known as Quicksilver. DC acquired the character when they bought the Quality properties, but DC waited until 1990's to bring the character back. While the character was out circulation, Marvel created their Quicksilver. I guess that DC didn't want to push the issue and renamed him. ITTL, the character was resurrected briefly by DC in the 1960s, so Escape named their speedster Mr. Mercury. I will admit to being tempted to name him Max Mercury, but thought that would be a bit much.

Scarlett Witch:

1. So, who is her love intrest in this continuity, and is she going to give birth to imaginary children by a robot ten years down the line in real time?

1. Here I'm following the Ultimate universe, so it's her brother. Actually, her paramour is Giant Man. FYI, Pavel presents himself as superior, but not a total jackass (think Major Winchester from M*A*S*H).

Lady Marshal:

1. What's her backstory and gimmick (if any)

1. I was feeling that Joe Simon was being underrepresented, so I co-opted his 2003 "Lady Shield" proposal. He never gave her origin, just the powers of super strength and invulnerability. So for purposes of TTL, her origin would remain unrevealed for many years. In 1973, she would discover that Hercules was her father.

Phantom Lady:

1. Which one is she based off of?

1. While she wears a similar costume to the Fox version, she is closer in character to the Quality one. One major change is that she no longer needs the blackout gun/flashdark, instead she has that as a power much the Freedom Fighters version.

Wasp:

1. Does she have a spouse in TTL, and if so, does he treat her right?

1. She is bit young to have spouse in TTL as she is only a teenager, but he does treat right. Her crime fighting partner and boyfriend is the Fly. IOTL, the Fly's secret identity was changed from a kid to an adult after his first few appearances, but ITTL he wasn't.

Power Man:

1. So, is he a brick, or does he have energy related powers?

1. He is just your garden variety brick.

Spyman:

1. Unless that suit has camo or invisibility, why the heck would he he wear it?

1. This is another Joe Simon character. I didn't like the original costume, so I tweaked it via a Giant Man costume. The original character was a costumed spy inspired by the Outer Limits episode "Demon with a Glass Hand". I changed the inspiration episode to the Outer Limits episode "I, Robot". So instead of a man with a cybernetic hand, he is now an android. The costume does provide the character with camouflage capability, it also provides enhanced hearing and vision. I kept the name as plenty of characters have bad codenames.

Speedboy:

1. Did he start out as Fighting American's sidekick?

[/QUOTE]

1. Yes and remains so. Escape like DC believes in sidekicks.

 

[neamathla]

So, with Chris Claremont and Len Wein at Charlton, we won't see the characters introduced in Giant Size X-Men#1 joining the Cavalry, and with John Byrne still not joining Mighty yet, something tells me that the Cavalry of the Atom is still stuck in the doldrums storywise. Did they even bother killing off Professor X for the first time, yet?

While the occasional "guest mutant", such as Cyclops's brother Damage, replaces a Cavalry member, the team always returns to the core five, just like as the Fantastic Four in OTL. They did plan to blow up the team like OTL, but this idea was killed by the new Disney mandate of the status quo. While they didn't kill the Professor, by the dawn of the Bronze Age, he had faded into the background.

One thing about Hawk and Dove, I thought Kirby came up with them OTL at DC. Shouldn't they be at Escape? And besides, Cloak and Dagger always felt more appropriate for Mighty.

OTL Hawk & Dove were created by Steve Dikto and Steve Skeates in 1968 for DC. ITTL, they were created a few years earlier at Mighty. I agree on Cloak and Dagger. They will probability have the same powers with a slightly different costumes.

Thor:

Unless that's a Golden Turban on his head (Representing the fact that late Pre-Christian Vikings did wear them), you managed to make him look even less like his original mythological version, and more like Gilgamesh. Where's Mjolnir?

I had several mistakes in the Mighty graphic which I since corrected. One of these was the Thor character. I was using the Tyrannus microhero as placeholder and forgot to replace it. The new Thor is now in Mighty's graphic. I wanted Thor to have a unique look, so I used the painting by Marten Eskil Winge, "Thor's Battle Against the Jotnar", as inspiration. See if that works better.


Thor's Battle Against the Jotnar (1872) by Marten Eskil Winge

Comet:

Does Tony still change powersuits as often as he changes his socks?

Yes, but as always just variants on a theme.

Shield:

What is Bruce's backstory and schtick this time?

The Shield is TTL's Captain Atom (Charlton not DC).

Blackjack:

Is Ted Kord still Jewish?

I don't ever remember Ted being portrayed as Jewish. So, I checked The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Characters website (http://www.ComicBookReligion.com). They have Ted listed as religious, but affiliation unknown. That being said, I can see Ted as Jewish. I guess this is just my long way of saying yes.

Black Hood:

What is Clint's background this time?

He follows Hawkeye's origin.

Fox:

Does she have Patsy Walker's powerset (during the times that she has one OTL), or is just a badass normal?

No. Her powers are super-agility and enhanced senses. Please note the change in civilian id. Originally, she was Marvel Girl. But I thought the power set did not match the name. So I swapped her with then-blond Mighty Girl. I forgot to change the names in the Mighty graphic, but it is now corrected.

Thing:

Are he and Reed two seperate people timesharing the same body, or is Bruce simply the ultimate brick?

This is Stan Lee's Jeckle/Hyde character. The Thing was Reed's wild side. Initially, he had no control over his other persona. Now, if can focus at the time of transformation, he can. Originally, the transformation occurred at nightfall. Now, it happens during times of great stress (such as anger/fear, but not sex). Unlike OTL Hulk, the Thing does not get stronger as he gets angrier, it just prolongs the transformation.

Mighty Man:

I'm guessing he's a brick and the equivelant to either Supreme/Hyperion or an actual Silver Age Sentry

He is a flying brick like Captain Marvel. His origin borrows many elements from Philip Wylie's novel, Gladiator. He was created because Stan Lee thought Mighty should have a superhero bearing the company's name.

Wizard:

He looks like a robot than an actual magic user. Is he the Mighty version of Vision?

He based on Shade, the Changing Man. This is another character I am not totally satisfied with, but I really didn't want to go the magic route with him. I have included a pair of covers to show what his powers are like.


Shade, the Changing Man covers

Captain Atom:

I'm guessing he's the equivelant to Mar-Vel of the Kree, but with Icon's politics since Ditko probably drew him to start with.

Yes, he is the Mar-Vell analog. Atom shares Mar-Vell's debut year. His powers and outlook are very similar to Static (his Eclipse Monthly character, not the Milestone one). The Ditko-Lee battles over the character are another reason that Ditko left Mighty.

Captain Flag:

Does he work for THUNDER?

No. He works for the US government. He is standard highly-trained patriotic hero.

Bob Phantom:

Based on his civillian ID, I'd say his power is phasing. Might "Pryde" have been originally "Stoltz" like OTL, or "Ap Rhyd'?

You have guessed right on his powers. Before coming to America from Russia in 1900s, the Pryde family name was Preys.

Mighty Girl:

Is she a Briquette, or does she have OTL Jean Gray's powerset?

She is just Marvel Girl with another name. She will not become Phoenix.

Lightning:

Is he a speedster, or does he have electric superpowers?

Lightning is the same as in OTL. His suit gives him super speed, but causes him to age faster.

Raven:

What's his powerset, and who came first, Craig Lawson or Lilith Clay?

This was another error, I meant to rename the character, but forgot to do so. The character will be called the Crow from here on out. I did change it in the Mighty graphic. As to which came first, it was Mighty's Raven. He wears a suit that allows him to fly and see in the dark. His gloves contain mini-missiles.

 

[neamathla]

1) Will there be anything like the DC Implosion?

1. No.

3) Wasn't Dr. Doom the name of a Cavalry villain? Now who's their villain?

3. It is still Magneto. Stan Lee had used the name previously in a horror story. So, I saw no reason not to let him have it. However, Mighty's Magneto does not look like Marvel's Magneto. Currently, I thinking he looks like Ditko's Static.


Ditko's Static

4) I've noticed you've done a lot of mixing and matching of Fantastic Four, X-Men, and Doom Patrol names into your teams. Are these clues to the characters' traits, or just whimsy?

4. Right now I am using names as Easter eggs. For the most part, they give a clue to a character's origin and/or powers.

5) Do the Challengers have powers? I assumed they didn't.

5. OTL Challengers don't, but TTL's Challs are a mixture of the Challengers and Fantastic Four with a touch of X-Men for flavor.

6) Will we see versions of characters from The New X-Men popping up somewhere? Aside from Colossus, of course.

6. Yes, but not where you think.

7) Is Hercules a New God?

7. No.

8) Are Wanda and Pietro Markovian royalty?

8. Hadn't thought about the connecting the two, but that could be interesting.

9) Can you give Mr. Miracle a name like Mr. Escape, or something? I do like that guy.

9. Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, and the rest of the New Gods exist in a separate reality from the mainstream Escape universe. So, all those DC issues exist here under the Escape banner with Lancelot Strong, police lieutenant Terry Mullins, and the Boy Sentinels substituting for Superman, Jimmy Olsen, and the Newsboy Legion respectively.

10) I just noticed you misunderstood my question about rebooting. I wasn't asking why All American used old names for new characters. I was asking why All American stopped using any of its old characters, even Wonder Woman. Surely, at least one of its superheroes was successful enough to be published continuously? Otherwise, how would they have gotten the money to purchase Timely? I know I said I'd let this slide, but that was before I saw there was a misunderstanding.

10. Sorry about that. Like MLJ with Archie, All-American was more than one-trick pony. So when superheroes fell out of favor, they had other successful titles such as "Mad" and "Tales from the Crypt" to fall back on. No comics backlash allowed All-American to thrive. At the time of the Atlas purchase, Goodman just wanted out and to spite DC. So, he sold Atlas cheap.

PS I like the new Steel Sterling, and how Xavier looks like Caulder. Although the latter is a major loss to representation of the bald community, it is a plus for the beard community.

Thanks, I don't what took me so long to see Steel=Colossus.

Just in case anyone was wondering how All-American could publish Wonder Woman after stopping. In OTL, DC had to publish a Wonder Woman comic every year or lose the rights. Eventually, DC bought the character outright. In TTL, right before Superman case went to court and after William Marston died, All-American bought Wonder Woman. This was done to lock down the brand. All-American made a similar deal with the Flash and Green Lantern creators. Because of this, Bill Finger lived a longer and healthier life.

 

[Brady Kj]

I see. I was under the impression that every company had a few superheroes in the worst of times, so it's good that that's cleared up.

6. Yes, but not where you think.

But where I think they'll be is anywhere in this thread except in the Cavalry. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some of them will be there too. If you really want to surprise me, put them in another thread.

 

[Nivek]

what happen to Stan Lee in this Timeline?

 

[Brady Kj]

Hi, Nivek. That's a good question, and it's something I'd like to know more about myself. I'm providing a quote about him. For context, Mighty is Archie Comics' superhero imprint, which Stan Lee worked for.

By 1971, John Goldwater, owner of Archie Comics, decided it was time to take the company public. Initially, it was a boon for the company, raising the profile of Archie and by extension Mighty. Meanwhile, Dell was running into problems. Declining sales and a thin margin of profit had Dell Publishing considering whether to sell the comics division or shut it down. At the same time, friction was beginning to grow between Gold Key and Disney over licensing. In 1973, it all came together. Disney decided to create a comic division. Disney considered acquiring Gold Key, but absorbing Gold Key's parent company Western was more than Disney wanted to take on. For similar reasons, the acquisition of Dell Comics was also eliminated. So, they decided on Archie. Disney felt that Archie's family friendly comics would fit their company viewpoint perfectly. The one problem was the Mighty imprint did not fit that view. So, Disney decided to spin Mighty off into a separate company.[F] Disney executive Thomas Anderson would replace Stan Lee. Lee would be promoted to a position with no power. Anderson's lack of imagination would cause Mighty to stagnate for the next decade. If in January of 1974, readers ignored the indicia, they wouldn't have noticed anything had changed except Archie was now publishing the Disney characters. Dell Publishing phased out their comics division after Disney passed. The last issues from Dell would come out that June.

Personally, I'd like to know what this "position with no power" was. Also, it's not clear to me whether Disney owns Archie but doesn't own Mighty, or whether Disney now owns Archie and Mighty and they're run by separate people.

 

[neamathla]

what happen to Stan Lee in this Timeline?

Personally, I'd like to know what this "position with no power" was. Also, it's not clear to me whether Disney owns Archie but doesn't own Mighty, or whether Disney now owns Archie and Mighty and they're run by separate people.

Sorry if I was a little unclear about the Disney/Mighty relationship. The way I am visualizing it is similar to the Disney/Touchstone relationship. Disney owns and controls Mighty, but anything does fit the "Disney mold" (not family friendly) is branded Mighty. It was a way to allow them have their cake and eat it too. That being said, anything too far out is still prohibited. For example, the heroes like the Punisher and Ghost Rider would not be allowed.

Disney recognized that in public's eyes, Stan Lee was Mighty Comics. So, Disney promoted Lee. His position title translate roughly to "Vice President of Fandom Relations". I think of him as the "Queen of England" of Mighty Comics. A public face with no real power behind the scenes.

 

[neamathla]

The Bronze Age, part 2

In 1972, "Trinity", a wheel show for ABC, began its seven-season run. It consisted of three rotating series, "The Delphi Bureau", "Jigsaw", and "Kolchak: Night Stalker". After the first season, "Jigsaw" was replaced with "Steve Austin: Cyborg". The addition of "Cyborg" help "Trinity" win its timeslot. The success of ABC's science fiction flavored programs did not go unnoticed at UBS.[A] Inspired by the first cover of Ms. Magazine, UBS ordered a Wonder Woman pilot movie starring Cheryl Ladd.[1] The movie aired in January 1974. It was an instant hit.[2] Three more movies were shown that spring. UBS quickly green-lit a series to premiere that fall. It would run for five seasons. The success of "Wonder Woman" inspired Disney to bring the Mighty superheroes to television. ABC premiered the "Amazing Web" in 1975. However, the "powers that be" at Disney stripped the Web of what they perceived as controversial elements.[3] The result was the show lost it fan base almost immediately. As the ratings nose-dived, the series was canceled after broadcasting nine of the thirteen episodes. ABC would show the Mighty pilot movies that summer.[4]


The cover to first issue of MS Magazine.

While the "Superfriends" was a disaster, interest in the various superhero properties remained. Starting in 1974, the network began to add superheroes shows to their Saturday morning children's block.[5] In addition to cartoons, live-action shows would be shown. At the forefront would be Filmation. Besides comedy/action shows like "the Ghostbusters", they had successful superhero shows, "Captain Marvel" (1975-1978) and "Lady Marshal" (1976-1978). Building on that success, it leads them to try for Prime Time. Filmation used their rights to the Justice League to create a two-hour special. In January 1978, NBC premiered "the Legends of the Superheroes". The special was broken into two parts. The first part was an unimaginative plot involving the JLA having to save the city during Retired Man's birthday party. The villains were the Agents of Villainy; the team was created just for this special.[6] The second part was an ill-conceived superhero roast. The unfunny jokes fell in the "underwear on the outside" category. Besides lackluster humor, the better-written superheroes were one-dimensional characters. Others were reduced to a sexist or racist stereotype. For example, Wildcat was reduced to a streetwise blaxploitation stereotype. It was so bad that even the most diehard blaxploitation fan would feel uneasy. Bill Gaines was so outraged by the special that he revoked Filmation's rights.[7] Escape followed suit by pulling "Lady Marshal". This special is consistently rated as the worst television special ever. In polls, it generally beats "The Paul Lynde Halloween Special" by a two to one vote.


Screenshot of the Flash from "The Legends of the Superheroes".

By the late 1970s, many of popular movie genres were at a crossroads. Interest in fantasy films had begun to wane. Westerns had degenerated into drive-in affairs. The horror faded into background due to being upstaged by disaster films with all-star casts. The public was looking for something new. At first it seemed that found it. The top two films of 1977 would be "Flash Gordon: The Greatest Adventure of All" and "Logan's Run".[8] But on May 26, 1978, a film opened that captured the public's imagination like no other. That year, Steven Spielberg's "The Man of Steel: Superman" would go on to gross over $400,000,000. It would make stars of its two unknown leads, Christopher Reeve and Meryl Streep.[9] The "Man of Steel" would be followed by "The Man of Tomorrow: Superman" (1979) and "The Man of Action: Superman" (1980).[10] Each sequel would be the top film for that year and top box record set by the previous film.[11] In addition, the Superman trilogy would kick off the superhero boom that would last into the 1990s.


"Man of Steel: Superman" movie poster.

With the popularity of science fiction on TV, the comic companies expanded their SF titles.[12] The companies quickly licensed some film & television titles. Examples include "Galactica" (Escape), "Star Trek" (All-American), "Buck Rogers" (DC), and "Flash Gordon" (DC). In addition to new properties, they resurrected some older titles. Gold Key brought back MARS Patrol and Space Family Robinson. Escape achieved minor success with Space Busters and their anthology title, Unknown Worlds of Science Fiction. Mighty achieved short-term interest with Star Hunters and Tales of Unexplored Worlds[13]. All-American reintroduced the ever-popular Terro-Human Universe with stories focusing on the "Space Viking" and "Fuzzy" eras.[C] Dr. Adam Strange was re-emphasized. They also presented Howard Chaykin's space epic, Iron-Wolf. Besides Flash Gordon whose rights DC had acquired in 1976, DC won big with the Outsiders. The title, created by Dave Cockrum, is set in the 30th Century. It is a fusion of the superhero and space opera genres. The Outsiders' popularity would lead Mighty to create a knockoff team called Ultraforce.


Dave Cockrum's sketches of the original Outsiders (clockwise from top left: Quetzal, Typhoon, Trio, Nightcrawler, Reflecto, and Power Boy) and foes (clockwise from top: Belladonna, Sidewinder, Manta, Tyr, and Wolverine).

While the price of a comic book had continued to rise, the narrow profit margin remained the same. Gold Key's lifeblood was licensed properties. When sales were beginning to decline industry wide in the mid-1970s, Gold Key tried to cut costs by canceling its original series and putting some licensed titles into reprints. They did get new licensed titles when Dell shut down, but this gain was offset by the loss of Disney. Over the next two years, Gold Key would lose Tarzan and Flash Gordon to DC and Star Trek to All-American. When the superhero/science-fiction genre took off in film & television, the "Big Four" were able to cash in and stabilized sales. Gold Key was not. So, Western, Gold Key's parent company, would try some new things. Under the Whitman imprint, they disturbed "three for one" bags. They were plastic bags that contained three comic books of reprinted material. They would also place trade paperbacks, primarily reprinted Looney Tunes stories, in non-traditional places.[14] However, sales continued to decline. In the end, Gold Key would fade away with its last licensed issues coming out in 1980.


Bugs Bunny Comics-Go-Round, one of the first trade paperbacks.

Like Gold Key, the late 1970s were not good to Charlton. To ease the wear on Charlton Publications’ ageing printing presses, the comic and magazine lines were slowly pared back. This would begin the exodus of talent. Thus, Charlton would limp into the 1980s. Clinging to older distribution system, sales continued to decline. In 1980, Charlton's magazine line was eliminated and their comic line was reduced to eight titles, most were single genre books. By this time, Charlton had allowed their licensed properties to expire. Before Editor-in-Chief Roy Thomas left the company, he arranged for Charlton to sell some properties to their creators.[15] After Charlton Comics ceased publication in 1983, Escape purchased Charlton's superheroes.[16] Charlton Publications went out of business two years later. Sinae LLC purchased Charlton’s remaining intellectual property assets.[17]


Charlton Bullseye #9, their final superhero comic.

In 1974, US television gave birth to the miniseries with broadcast of the four-part "QB VII". It was a resounding success. By the late 1970s, the networks were hitting home runs with miniseries blockbusters such as "Roots" and "Rich Man, Poor Man". In 1978, DC would inadvertently copy the format and create the first comic miniseries.[18] The Krypton Chronicles was originally scheduled to be the first three issues of a new anthology title. Publisher Jenette Kahn decided to scrap title. With the chaos of the upcoming Superman movie, the message did not filter down. By the time the error was noticed, the first issue had gone to print. The tentative data indicated strong sales. So, DC decided to print the other two issues and called it a miniseries. Based on the success of this series, DC published The Untold Legend of the Green Arrow in 1979. This would be the first specifically created miniseries. As always, success breeds imitation and soon the other comic companies were publishing miniseries.[19] Together with the one-shot (a single issue miniseries), the miniseries became a valued way to tell stories particularly for those outside the superhero genre.[20]


The Krypton Chronicles, the first comic miniseries.

--------------------------------

[1] Other actress up for the part of Wonder Woman included Lynda Carter and Cathy Lee Crosby. Carter would get to portray in the two-part season 3 opener. Of course it was the Golden Age Wonder Woman. She would do five more guest shots including the series finale. Crosby would end up portraying a Wonder Woman-like character, Lady Marshal. She would also appear in the final episode as alternate Wonder Woman. In addition, Connie Sellecca would make a number of appearances as Wonder Girl.

[2] Even though the term wouldn't be coined after the series started, "Wonder Woman" would be considered a prime of example of "jiggle feminism". The term is used to refer to shows that had a strong female lead, but costumed her in such a way that when she moved, her breasts or buttocks would be seen to shift. Other examples included "The Bionic Woman", "Alley Cats", and "[The New Cases of] Honey West".

[3] A prime example of a "controversial" element was J. Jonah Jamison's antagonism towards Peter Parker and the Web. Disney transformed him into a mentor for Parker and the Web's biggest fan.

[4] During this time, the summer was considered a dumping ground. So, very few people saw the Mighty movies. The movies were "Dr. Doom, Sorcerer Supreme", "Beware the Fox", and "the Mighty Thor". Of the three only "Thor" received any positives reviews though not many.

[5] The Mighty series were "Cavalry of the Atom" (1977) and "Web Woman" (1978). Escape had "Challengers of the Unknown" (1976-1977) and "Scarlet Surfer" (1978). They were three DC shows, "Batman" (1975-1976), "DC Superhero Hour" (1976-1978), and "Plastic Man" (1978-1980). All-American only had the "Justice League of America" (1975-1978).

[6] The Axis of Villainy were lead by Doctor Polaris. Additional members included Weather Wizard, Human Colossus, Orca, Fireproof, Mysteria, and Professor Alchemist.

[7] While the rights loss was not a deathblow, it did mark the beginning of Filmation's decline. The company would go out of business in 1983.

[8] "Flash Gordon: The Greatest Adventure of All" was the top grossing film of 1977. It grossed nearly $225,000,000. The film was directed by George Lucas. It starred Perry King, Sissy Spacek, Nicol Williamson, Harrison Ford, Brian Cox, and Brian Blessed. The second place film, "Logan's Run", was directed by Richard Donner and grossed $166,000,000. Its leads were Scott Glenn, Kurt Russell, and Carrie Fisher.[D]

[9] Spielberg offered Meryl Streep the part of Lois Lane after hearing about her run-in with Dino de Laurentis. Meryl Streep was auditioning for de Laurentis's "King Kong", when he asked his son in Italian, "Why someone had brought him this ugly thing". She shocked de Laurentis by responding to his question in perfect Italian. Upon hearing about the incident, Spielberg knew he had found his Lois Lane.

[10] Originally, the plan was to shoot the first two movies simultaneously. However, due to interference from the Silkinds, Spielberg was only shoot 75% of the second film. After the first film shattered records, Spielberg was able to gain full control of the next two films from the Silkinds.

[11] This trilogy formed the core of Steven Spielberg's "Can't Miss" decade. From 1976 through 1985, Spielberg directed eight films. Each one was the number movie for that year, generally breaking box office records. The films are "Jaws" (1976), "The Man of Steel: Superman" (1978), "The Man of Tomorrow: Superman" (1979), "The Man of Action: Superman" (1980), "Raiders of the Lost Ark: The Adventures of Indiana Smith" (1981), "Night Skies" (1982), "Treasure of the Monkey King: The Adventures of Indiana Smith" (1984) and "The Goonies" (1985).

[12] In 1978, "Galactica" and "Fantastic Journey" were added to ABC's "Trinity" lineup. UBS resurrected "Buck Rogers". "The Man From Atlantis" would run for three years on CBS. However, where the other networks found success, NBC could not. From 1978 to 1980, they broadcasted seven different series, none of which lasted more than twelve episodes.

[13] The lead feature of the Tales of Unexplored Worlds was the Starhawks. Touchstone Films adapted the lead into two successful films, "The Black Hole" (1980) and "Double Star" (1982).

[14] These places included bookstores, gift shops, toy stores, department stores, and inside newsstands. Only the bookstore locations were profitable.

[15] Most creators took advantage of the sale, but Ditko did not. This is how Sinae LLC ended up with Winnie the Witch.

[16] As Daredevil was still owned by Gleason, Escape purchased the entire Gleason catalog a few months later.

[17] Sinea LLC purchases the intellectual properties of defunct comic companies, such as the American Comics Group and Harvey Comics.

[18] Some consider Cerebus the first miniseries. While the first issue (January 1978) did appear before the first issue of the Krypton Chronicles (May 1978), it wasn't until issue six (November 1978) that Dave Sim announced his intent to end the series at 300.

[19] The first miniseries for the other major companies were Contest of Champions (Mighty 1979), The Defenders vs. the Invaders (Charlton 1979), The Saga of the New Gods (Escape 1980), and Secrets of the Guardians (All-American 1980).

[20] In 1982, All-American published Camelot 3000. It was the first miniseries based on original material published by one of the "Big Four".

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[A] In OTL, the Unisphere Broadcasting System (UBS) was created to be a fourth network. However, due to a number of issues, it was instead launched as the Mizlou Television Network, a syndicator of sports & entertainment television. In TTL, UBS went forward as plan. A merger with Metromedia in 1967 brought greater stability and financial security. In 1974, it would become the third place network ahead of NBC.

In OTL, the special was done by Hanna-Barbara, but otherwise it is essentially the same. The roast had an appearance by a character called Ghetto Man. For more information, see the wikipedia page.

[C] In addition to Bradbury, All-American adapted Piper's stories for the "New Direction" titles. This puts Piper in a better financial situation. So, he does not commit suicide and lives until 1970, when he dies of a heart attack.

[D] Not only is the film is darker than IOTL; it follows the plot of the original novel much closer.

 

[Badshah]

Glad to see you're continuing this....please don't have Tim Burton make the Batman movies!

 

[Brady Kj]

I love your Outsiders! Much better than OTL's Legion of Superheroes. How did you make these covers? What inspired you to make these lineups? Most of these look like original characters to me. And is it safe to assume that Nightcrawler and Wolverine are from places far from Germany and Canada?

Also, will Roy Thomas create something like Infinity Inc somewhere?

 

[Kalvan]

I take it then that Flash Gordon didn't have a score by Queen.

I thought that Wolverine was first drawn by John Romita Sr for Incredible Hulk #181. Shouldn't he be a Mighty or Escape character?

So, is Lobo one of The Outsiders' later villains? Or will he be giving The Guardians fits?

I like the new sketch of Thor much better.

A Steven Spielberg Supes. Why didn't the Salkinds try to wrestle it back from him after the first movie? Richard Donner made almost as much money and they still screwed him over. Or did Warner Brothers still by DC's parent company ITTL?

So which villains did Spielberg use? Lex? Brainiac? Metallo? Bizarro? Parasite? Silver Banshee? Toyman? Prankster? Ultreaa? General Zod? Richard Pryor and the J.R. Ewing stand-in who would inspire OTL Post Crisis Lex?

Oh, and did Mark Hamil play Jimmy Olsen?

Why do I get the impression that Ron Perelman (The corporate raider, not the actor) will be seen as a white knight after so many years of mismanagement of Mighty, at least in the begining? (Especially if Michael Eisner never makes president and the position stays within the Disney family.)

So, what's Ollie's new origin this time? And how long will it stick?

Why do I get the impression that Sinea will form the foundation for an ATL Dark Horse Comcs?

 

[Brady Kj]

Perhaps this Wolverine is an unrelated character who happens to have the same name? Perhaps he is this timeline's Lobo.
I love how all of Neamathla's characters look like they're created in the time periods they're supposed to be from. I've seen people fail to do that a lot. Great work, Neamathla!

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

In OTL, rankings of the top comic book heroes invariably include Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and Wolverine -- who, TTL, would be likewise universally lauded?

 

[Brady Kj]

That's a good question. I'll take a stab at it. I'm guessing the Web is just as popular as our Spider-Man, as there doesn't seem to be any difference between the characters. I imagine Batman's still on the list because he had a good TV show in the 60s. Green Arrow probably ranks up there. It's too early to say, but this TL might not have anything like Wolverine, though it does have a character with that name.

I have a related question for Neamathla, and anyone who feels like guessing. ITTL, what superhero titles have made it through the rough years between the Golden and Silver Ages without getting canceled? I'm guessing there were more than three.

Also, I have some artistic suggestions. Could you make the Web's color scheme resemble those of the Golden Age Web? I find the Silver Age one's colors to be unappealing. And could you make the Green Mask's trunks blue? I think he'd look much better with one less color, and it seems that OTL's Green Mask usually had blue trunks.