Jimmy Two: America in Carter's Second Term

[Vidal]

A good President has to be able to work with the House and Senate.
Which he completely failed to do, despite Majority 'D' in both.
He was a good man, but terrible president

Obviously, I am not going to pretend that Carter got along well with Democratic leadership in Congress. We know he did not. But to say he "completely failed" to work with the House and Senate is also in bad faith. Of all our presidents between Truman and Obama, Carter ranked second for gaining legislative support for his policy proposals. He passed some really extensive pieces of legislation -- including the deregulation of the airline industry, the Alaskan Lands Act, the energy policy measures that created the Dept. of Energy, mental health legislation that could have been truly transformative had Reagan not repealed it, superfund legislation, and the Panama Canal Treaties (which simply did not have the votes until Carter picked up the issue).

So, again, let's appreciate the nuance of our history. Carter had plenty of disagreements with Tip O'Neill, Dan Rostenkowski, Teddy Kennedy, and others. But to say he completely failed to work with Congress seems a lazy take on the fact that he was unwilling to compromise on healthcare legislation as opposed to an accurate assessment of his actual legislative record.

 

[marathag]

HISTORIANS SURVEY RESULTS​

RELATIONS WITH CONGRESS https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?category=7​

President's Name	Final Scores	Rank	Rank	Rank
		2017	2009	2000
Lyndon B. Johnson	83.0	1	2	1
George Washington	82.8	2	4	3
Franklin D. Roosevelt	80.1	3	1	2
Abraham Lincoln	79.5	4	3	4
Thomas Jefferson	74.0	5	5	5
Dwight D. Eisenhower	72.0	6	6	7
Theodore Roosevelt	72.0	7	7	6
Ronald Reagan	68.9	8	8	8
James Monroe	66.2	9	9	10
William McKinley	65.6	10	10	9
James K. Polk	64.6	11	11	11
John F. Kennedy	61.3	12	12	13
James Madison	60.1	13	15	17
Harry S. Truman	57.9	14	16	15
George H. W. Bush	56.3	15	20	20
Woodrow Wilson	55.2	16	17	14
William J. Clinton	55.1	17	19	36
Calvin Coolidge	55.1	18	18	19
Gerald R. Ford	54.9	19	13	12
Ulysses S. Grant	54.6	20	21	31
Andrew Jackson	53.7	21	14	16
Grover Cleveland	53.6	22	27	18
William Howard Taft	52.3	23	23	28
John Adams	52.0	24	28	22
George W. Bush	51.9	25	36	NA
Benjamin Harrison	50.5	26	26	24
James A. Garfield	48.6	27	22	23
Martin Van Buren	47.9	28	24	25
Chester A. Arthur	45.9	29	25	27
Rutherford B. Hayes	45.8	30	35	21
Herbert Hoover	44.9	31	30	34
John Quincy Adams	44.3	32	31	35
Jimmy Carter	44.2	33	32	33
Warren G. Harding	43.8	34	34	26
Zachary Taylor	43.3	35	29	32
Millard Fillmore	43.1	36	33	29
Richard M. Nixon	42.8	37	37	30
William Henry Harrison	40.5	38	38	39
Barack Obama	37.8	39	NA	NA
Franklin Pierce	36.6	40	39	37
John Tyler	31.0	41	40	38
James Buchanan	28.4	42	41	40
Andrew Johnson	17.1	43	42	41

 

[Vidal]

HISTORIANS SURVEY RESULTS​

RELATIONS WITH CONGRESS https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?category=7​

President's Name	Final Scores	Rank	Rank	Rank
		2017	2009	2000
Lyndon B. Johnson	83.0	1	2	1
George Washington	82.8	2	4	3
Franklin D. Roosevelt	80.1	3	1	2
Abraham Lincoln	79.5	4	3	4
Thomas Jefferson	74.0	5	5	5
Dwight D. Eisenhower	72.0	6	6	7
Theodore Roosevelt	72.0	7	7	6
Ronald Reagan	68.9	8	8	8
James Monroe	66.2	9	9	10
William McKinley	65.6	10	10	9
James K. Polk	64.6	11	11	11
John F. Kennedy	61.3	12	12	13
James Madison	60.1	13	15	17
Harry S. Truman	57.9	14	16	15
George H. W. Bush	56.3	15	20	20
Woodrow Wilson	55.2	16	17	14
William J. Clinton	55.1	17	19	36
Calvin Coolidge	55.1	18	18	19
Gerald R. Ford	54.9	19	13	12
Ulysses S. Grant	54.6	20	21	31
Andrew Jackson	53.7	21	14	16
Grover Cleveland	53.6	22	27	18
William Howard Taft	52.3	23	23	28
John Adams	52.0	24	28	22
George W. Bush	51.9	25	36	NA
Benjamin Harrison	50.5	26	26	24
James A. Garfield	48.6	27	22	23
Martin Van Buren	47.9	28	24	25
Chester A. Arthur	45.9	29	25	27
Rutherford B. Hayes	45.8	30	35	21
Herbert Hoover	44.9	31	30	34
John Quincy Adams	44.3	32	31	35
Jimmy Carter	44.2	33	32	33
Warren G. Harding	43.8	34	34	26
Zachary Taylor	43.3	35	29	32
Millard Fillmore	43.1	36	33	29
Richard M. Nixon	42.8	37	37	30
William Henry Harrison	40.5	38	38	39
Barack Obama	37.8	39	NA	NA
Franklin Pierce	36.6	40	39	37
John Tyler	31.0	41	40	38
James Buchanan	28.4	42	41	40
Andrew Johnson	17.1	43	42	41

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Presented another way: Average House and Senate Concurrence with the President (Admittedly, I misremembered: Carter was third of all presidents since Truman)

1) Kennedy: 84.6%
2) Johnson: 82.6%
3) Carter: 76.4%
4) Eisenhower: 72.3%
5) Obama: 70% [Note: only includes Obama's first term]
6) W. Bush: 68.7%
7) Nixon: 67%
8) Reagan: 61.8%
9) Ford: 57.7%
10) Clinton: 57.6%
11) Bush: 51.7%

You can pick your poison -- a qualitative survey of historians' impressions or an analysis of data based on the actual number of times he and Congress agreed

 

[Kennedy Forever]

A good President has to be able to work with the House and Senate.
Which he completely failed to do, despite Majority 'D' in both.
He was a good man, but terrible president

Obviously, I am not going to pretend that Carter got along well with Democratic leadership in Congress. We know he did not. But to say he "completely failed" to work with the House and Senate is also in bad faith. Of all our presidents between Truman and Obama, Carter ranked second for gaining legislative support for his policy proposals. He passed some really extensive pieces of legislation -- including the deregulation of the airline industry, the Alaskan Lands Act, the energy policy measures that created the Dept. of Energy, mental health legislation that could have been truly transformative had Reagan not repealed it, superfund legislation, and the Panama Canal Treaties (which simply did not have the votes until Carter picked up the issue).

So, again, let's appreciate the nuance of our history. Carter had plenty of disagreements with Tip O'Neill, Dan Rostenkowski, Teddy Kennedy, and others. But to say he completely failed to work with Congress seems a lazy take on the fact that he was unwilling to compromise on healthcare legislation as opposed to an accurate assessment of his actual legislative record.

Good to hear the difference perspectives on Carter

 

[Vidal]

Now that it's official...

As many of you know, the question of Jimmy Carter winning a second term has pretty much always interested me, but recently when I read Reaganland, I started to really think about taking the project up in a serious way. On May 26, 2021, I posted in my test thread about the idea. In July of that year, @Yes encouraged me to take it up in earnest, and on April 7, 2022, this story went live. I did not anticipate to win the Turtledove less than a year into sharing this project with all of you, but I’m honored. Thank you all!

I’ve already done a long list of thank yous to the people who helped me get the project off the ground. Now, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has read and liked this timeline. Your thoughtful commentary in the thread, your likes on the chapter posts, and your encouraging and inquisitive DMs keep me in the chair writing and researching.

The fun part is: We have a lot of road left to go. The project outline (as of now) calls for another 26 chapters before we wrap up Jimmy’s second term. They’re in various states of planning and writing, and who knows what the final count will be. There’s a lot of ground to cover – a Supreme Court nomination (or two!), CarterCare, unrest in Egypt, Iran and Iraq, the 1982 midterms, some lame duck policy proposals, Cuba, nuclear arms, and, of course, the race to succeed Carter. I can’t thank y’all enough for being along for the ride.

Finally, I just want to send best wishes to President Carter and his family. Keep them in your thoughts, and, if you pray, your prayers.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

Congratulations at the win @Vidal!

 

[AceofShovels]

Congratulations @Vidal

 

[James clark micheal]

Congrats to you.

Now hearing "Lame duck proposals" I do wonder which chamber the GOP flips ( if any ). Does O'Neil lose the speakership? Does Dole succeed in becoming chairman? Or do they flip both chambers?

 

[ajm8888]

I hoped you’d win.

Congrats on the win

 

[Vidal]

Congrats to you.

Now hearing "Lame duck proposals" I do wonder which chamber the GOP flips ( if any ). Does O'Neil lose the speakership? Does Dole succeed in becoming chairman? Or do they flip both chambers?

Technically, lame duck doesn't necessitate losing control of Congress

 

[LAHistorian15]

I did not anticipate to win the Turtledove less than a year into sharing this project with all of you, but I’m honored. Thank you all!

Congratulations! This is one of, if not, my favorite timelines that I’ve read on this site and has finally received a well deserved Turtledove!

a Supreme Court nomination (or two!)

The first one is probably to fill the vacancy left by the retirement of Potter Stewart like in OTL, the second is unclear because the next Justice in OTL to resign was Chief Justice Warren E. Burger in 1986. Could he retire early ITTL? He was pretty sexist when it came to nominating women judges to the Supreme Court and his views on homosexuality were described as “…deeply prejudiced…” and “…to an extent which bordered on hysteria.” according to his Wikipedia Page. He could retire early due to some sort of scandal relating to these beliefs which would leave Carter with the ability to either elevate or nominate someone to the Chief Justice position. Most likely someone who was appointed by Kennedy or Johnson since they were the last two Democrats in office.

If Carter wants to do something that would turn a lot of heads would be to nominate Thurgood Marshall as the first Chief Justice of color.

CarterCare

An earlier Affordable Care Act no doubt.

unrest in Egypt, Iran and Iraq

Wonder what Carter’s foreign policy in the Middle East will be in his Second Term?

the 1982 midterms

I don’t see the Republicans winning the House of Representatives in ‘84 with the Democrats having 266 seats to the Republicans 168 unless I’m surprised with some early Republican Revolution. I could see them winning the Senate, however.

some lame duck policy proposals

Wonder what ideas Congress can come up with during this time period.

Cuba

Again, wondering what Carter’s foreign policy will be like.

nuclear arms

Carter probably won’t escalate things as much as Reagan did in OTL.

the race to succeed Carter.

The race will be most likely be between Mondale and whatever candidate the Republicans come up with. My guess is that it will be a Moderate of sorts.

 

[PresidentZinn]

@Vidal, you deserve it. Without hyperbole this is the best TL on American politics that I have ever read.

 

[SultanArda]

Congratulations on your win for your great timeline! (Though, I am going to be honest, I did not vote for you as I did not read this before the Turtledoves and wanted a win for my great friend dcharleos)
I hope that you have plans for the country I live in... Turkey!
I would love to see the development of Turkey without neoliberal economics... I guess? (I am not really sure whether Carter is neoliberal or not.)

 

[dcharles]

My heartiest and warmest congratulations to @Vidal .

The best speculative fiction is dialectic, as opposed to didactic, and I look at alternate history through that framework. In its purest form, good alternate history is a conversation with the past about the present. Yes, the events we discuss are typically set within an imagined past, but that imagined past leads to an alternate present that exists in juxtaposition with our own.

That juxtaposition? Well, that's the statement the work makes.

And this conversation that we've all gotten to witness in Jimmy Two, the juxtaposition that we've been allowed to infer, has been a pleasure and a privilege to read in so many ways. It breathes with sensitivity, depth, and texture. It has brought to my mind many questions that I might never have asked otherwise, and made me appreciate the contours of the present in ways that I did not before.

As a fellow writer and creator: well deserved.

--DCY

 

[m0585]

Congratulations on your win! It is very well deserved!

 

[Sabin]

Congratulations! Very well deserved. Can't wait to keep reading!

 

[Joseph Weaver]

I would like to say @Vidal congratulations you deserve it for such a wonderful timeline with a premise that hasn't really been explored at all really on this board.

 

[SultanArda]

After reading all the chapters, I could say that I loved this timeline and would love to see more of it. However, I have a suggestion regarding the assassination of John Paul II:
The two assassins who killed him ITTL also killed Abdi Ipekci, a prominent journalist, in 1979.
I would love a mention of the event, but still it is good.

Abdi İpekçi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Vidal]

After reading all the chapters, I could say that I loved this timeline and would love to see more of it. However, I have a suggestion regarding the assassination of John Paul II:
The two assassins who killed him ITTL also killed Abdi Ipekci, a prominent journalist, in 1979.
I would love a mention of the event, but still it is good.

Abdi İpekçi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Thank you for mentioning! Yes, as this is pre-POD, it still happens ITTL.

 

[Kennedy Forever]

Congratulations on your win. I echo the thoughts of others when I say it was very well deserved. This is a masterpiece not only in writing and dialogue but in getting us into the heads of these historical people and understanding their perspectives on certain things, why they made this specific decision, eccetera. I stumbled across this TL by accident and I'm glad I did!