The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
Historyprofessor99
Banned
It would be cool if someone made the new currency designs for us, like an infographic.
I'm digging the new currency designs. Though I noticed an error: You mentioned replacing "Thomas Jefferson on the $5 note." The chart correctly has him on the $2 note.
Also, I don't know if this was the case in the 1920s, but I'm surprised the bills don't have revolutionary scenes on the reverse more closely tied to the face. Like the $20 note. If John Brown's face is on the front, I'd think the Harpers Ferry Raid would be on the reverse.
Also, I don't know if this was the case in the 1920s, but I'm surprised the bills don't have revolutionary scenes on the reverse more closely tied to the face. Like the $20 note. If John Brown's face is on the front, I'd think the Harpers Ferry Raid would be on the reverse.
I'll fix that.
They tried, which is why we got Jefferson (later Adams) and the signing of the Declaration of Independence on the $2 note. However, the pressure to include scenes from American labor history and the 2AR was pretty intense.
Also, I've written up a provisional timeline of American premiers. This isn't set in stone, but I'm mostly satisfied. Beyond the three I've already confirmed (Eugene Debs, Cesar Chavez, and Gary Locke), here are a few hints:
- No American Premier has ever served for multiple terms.
- One Premier was President IOTL.
- Five women have served as Premier.
- Six Premiers have been nonwhite.
- Six Premiers held flag rank in the American military ITTL (but only one did so IOTL).
- One Premier has been in space ITTL.
- No American Premier has ever served for multiple terms.
- One Premier was President IOTL.
- Five women have served as Premier.
- Six Premiers have been nonwhite.
- Six Premiers held flag rank in the American military ITTL (but only one did so IOTL).
- One Premier has been in space ITTL.
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And both of those are likely to exist in the ASU due to its wealth and the relatively low densities of many parts of the country (particularly the Sunbelt) so that large urban rail systems are hard to financially sustain.
As for the institutions, that’s true, but the ASU is likely to want to invest in better-quality housing and benefits for revolutionary soldiers. Which leads back to similar places.
And yet there are a lot of cities in the United Kingdom that are fairly car-dependent, and a lot of developments in the post-war period were definitely envisioned that way. If you read what I posted, actually argued that the ASU would be far less car-dependent than the United States is—just that I it’s deeply unrealistic to make cars rare luxury items or avoid the construction of car-dependent places altogether given the ASU’s cultural background, physical situation, and wealth. All of those point to great importance for the car in the future.
EDIT: After all, if you look at even somewhere like the Netherlands, there’s still about half a car per person—about half the level of the United States, but still substantial. It’s just not realistic to think that cars won’t be big, and in many parts of the country that will offer an initially attractive pattern for development that will solve real problems, at least at first.
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This seems backwards to me. It's Carification and Road Infrastructure that enables such. Unless you're referring to the overall Population density of the ASU. In Which case, I would invite you to examine population density on a more local level on the period. I would bet you'll find a mix of low density rural/agricultural areas and higher density urban areas, all of which would be clustered around Railroads or Rivers.
To which, I would say that was a product of the late 1940s Britain. Pre-WW2 for example, building regulations (or possibly Ministry for Transport, can't recall off the top of my head) required that roads provide for segregated cycle paths. (Sidenote: Amsterdam rebuilt itself to be car focused. It swapped to investing in Cycle Infrastructure in the 1970s because it was nearly broke.)
And yes, absolutely, post WW2, the car was in ascendency. ITTL, we haven't even hit the Model T (and never will, bai bai Ford!) The word is far less motorised currently. I don't deny that motorisation and mechanisation are inevitable. But IMO those are distinct from Carification. (That meaning, for me, motor transportation raising to enough prominence that it warps infrastructure and civic planning around it.)
Especially as the Car is, well, Individualistic and Capitalist. You don't just need Cars. You need Cars; companies invested into selling more of them, damn the consequences; the advertising to sell them en-masse, and a population willing to go along with it all. Your need for a car is inversely proportional to the quality of local public transport. Your desire for a car is proportional to how prevelent the cultural ideas that a Car means Success and Status are.
I would guess that both factors lean more against cars ITTL, at least in the ASU. Arguably worldwide! I would say (though admittedly going off of vibes here) the USA was sort of the Golden Child of Capitalism, with lots of cultural influence. If the USA decided that Success meant Car, then other people in other places would be more likely to believe it as well.
To me, ASU motorisation would be more likely to be far more rural and utility-based rather than personal-based. Combine Harvester? Absolutely. Pickup Trucks? Absolutely. White Vans? Absolutely. (No Plumber is going to want to lug all the tools of their trade on the tram. Nor is anyone else.)
But I don't see anything like the Interstate System. Train Infrastructure is just more efficient. No need for Cross-Country Trucking when you can just... Use Trucks for the Last-Mile both ends.
Premiers serve for five-year terms. My current outline has Gary Locke as the 23rd Premier (there are currently two Premiers who die in office).
The wealth is already there, even if the revolution dented it.
You will find that in the northeast and to a somewhat lesser extent in the Midwest, yes, but in a lot of the Sunbelt even the "cities" are pretty low density at this point in time (and also small). Not to mention all of the peripheral land around cities that can be developed if you only had a better means of getting there...). Many had streetcar systems at this point in time, but largely because there was no better alternative; there's a reason a lot of cities like Houston, Albuquerque, or Atlanta started shrinking their systems starting in the 1920s, long before the post-war era (and apparently at this point in time IOTL half of streetcar systems were bankrupt--I imagine it would be worse here since many of them would have been blown up in the revolution!). It was hard to make rail pay for itself in those areas.
Now, you might say, "but the Sunbelt might not rise!" That's true, but it's unlikely. On the one hand, you have technical advances that make it far easier to live there, on the other the national government is going to want to invest there to alleviate the poverty in many places there (or else why even bother calling itself socialist?), there are a lot of handy natural resources there, and it's now better positioned to trade to the ASU's major partners in the Caribbean and Latin America (since European trade has been suppressed at least somewhat). You might not see so much helter-skelter growth or as much shift from older centers in the Midwest and Northeast, but it's likely to grow, and those areas are just lighter on the old rail infrastructure and are in a position where building for cars seems to make sense. We can look back from our perspective and say, "no, no, bad idea!" but that's because we have many decades of experience to observe the negative effects of doing this.
And in truth it probably does make sense for a lot of places in the United States to simply go for cars and ignore rails, even knowing those impacts. Santa Fe never had a streetcar system for good reason, after all. Of course that's not a big city by any stretch of the imagination, but multiply that by hundreds or thousands of places in a similar boat...it's still a lot of cars and a lot of places that are car-oriented, where the train is really only for getting to some other bigger city.
And why do you think that being socialist would prevent any of this? The auto worker unions certainly have every reason to try to persuade the public to buy cars and leave the railroads, even if the railroad unions would rather they didn't (and anyway the railroad workers probably won't care for a while since cars aren't really competing with them for now). So do the oil worker unions. The national government has a strategic reason to encourage a healthy automobile manufacturing sector (to wit, as I previously noted, the defense uses of motor vehicle manufacturing capacity). Local governments in at least some places have reason to think that switching to more car-focused infrastructure is better than previous modes, mostly smaller cities and places that don't have large rail networks already. The idea of having a nice, shiny new home on your own plot of land with a form of transportation that can keep up with a locomotive and isn't beholden to schedules is hardly difficult to sell as a socialist triumph either, instead of a capitalist one--you're providing a standard of living better than that a king once had to the ordinary worker, after all.
You see "capitalistic," I see chimeric; something that can be spun to fit whatever system it is in, at least at this point in time. Individualistic, sure, but American culture has always had a strain of the individualist and there is no way that any mere political revolution is going to get rid of that without many decades of cultural shift.
There is absolutely going to be an Interstate system. There's a reason literally every developed country has built substantial motorway systems, including the Soviet Union while it was still the Soviet Union. Trucks are far more efficient than trains for certain cargoes, particularly lightweight, time-sensitive ones, since they don't require large marshaling yards and aren't beholden to the schedules of the railroads (and some cargoes are just not economical to ship for the railroads). Plus, they're really useful for military purposes, and the ASU is obviously going to care about that. This holds true over long distances, too. What you might avoid is Interstates going straight into and through downtown areas and bulldozing bunches of them, at least beyond a few early attempts. That's a huge deal, and has a big impact on car-oriented design, but still doesn't get rid of the Interstates.
Historyprofessor99
Banned
Basically I imagine my current home would be different. I live in Orange County, Suburban LA metro. It used to be farmland. It is too low density for good public transit, within the county. Ironically getting to LA or San Diego is easy, fast and convenient, because people work there. My dad is the head of a small manufacturing company. So I imagine he would do the same thing, but he would probably making less, just with far lower costs of living, and union representation.
Historyprofessor99
Banned
I wonder what life is like for the average worker. Like your Starbucks barista or Retail cashier. I am very tempted to write you guys some fan fiction, or non- canon work about myself set in the current year and this timeline.
I wrote my own fan fiction or non cannon material. You guys can give feedback it would be interesting to hear what you have to say.
I wrote my own fan fiction or non cannon material. You guys can give feedback it would be interesting to hear what you have to say.
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It's also worth pointing out that in 1920 IOTL only a bare majority of the U.S. population lived in urban areas, and many of those would probably have been fairly small cities by modern standards. Rural areas accounted for very nearly half of the population; clearly personal vehicles make a lot of sense for them!
Historyprofessor99
Banned
A day in the life of Sean (An ordinary college student)
Wake up at 7 am, stop at local food hall.
7:30 am, take personal car (Chevy Volt) or ride the Metro train
8:00 am arrive at community college
8:00-9:00 Meeting of College Workers United ( An industry union representing people who are unemployed because they are in college)
9:00 Sing Solidarity forever before starting class proper
9:30-11:00 class History of the Revolution
11:00-12:30 Lunch at the local hall for MCWU
12:30-2:00 Political theory of American Socialism
2:00- 3:30 Civil Service work (Volunteer to help as part of socialist duty)
3:30-4:00 ride the Metro home
4:00-5:00 head to the nearest local you can claim membership in, for a pint with the comrades
5:00-6:30 eat dinner at the local
6:30-7:30 attend Young Socialist Singles meeting ( a program to allow comrades to meet each other) (think online dating but in person and with socialists at the local)
8:00-9:00 Watch SNN (Socialist News Network)
9:00-10:00 Read literature
Wake up at 7 am, stop at local food hall.
7:30 am, take personal car (Chevy Volt) or ride the Metro train
8:00 am arrive at community college
8:00-9:00 Meeting of College Workers United ( An industry union representing people who are unemployed because they are in college)
9:00 Sing Solidarity forever before starting class proper
9:30-11:00 class History of the Revolution
11:00-12:30 Lunch at the local hall for MCWU
12:30-2:00 Political theory of American Socialism
2:00- 3:30 Civil Service work (Volunteer to help as part of socialist duty)
3:30-4:00 ride the Metro home
4:00-5:00 head to the nearest local you can claim membership in, for a pint with the comrades
5:00-6:30 eat dinner at the local
6:30-7:30 attend Young Socialist Singles meeting ( a program to allow comrades to meet each other) (think online dating but in person and with socialists at the local)
8:00-9:00 Watch SNN (Socialist News Network)
9:00-10:00 Read literature
Historyprofessor99
Banned
Typical college student by major
Political Science/ History
Socialist Theory by Professor Comrade Elizabeth Warren
History of the Revolution by Comrade Dick Chenny
Political theory of American Socialism by Comrade Bernie Sanders
Union theory by Comrade Trumpka
Theories of International communism by Commandante Luis Castro
GE requirements
Working Math (basically math you would use as a factory worker or other job)
American socialist institutions and government ( Civics)
Biology/ other science
Civil service (1-2 years of Volunteer service to the cause of the revolution and/ or the citizens, must be completed within a 8 year PHD time frame or to achieve or complete your degree) Used as a job training program to help create future leaders and/ or workers.
Study abroad (mandated 2 year in another country to experience internationalism of the socialist movement)
I imagine most other majors would be the same as in our timeline except Law and medicine would focus on the serving the people and not the money.
I also imagine there are ROTC type programs like Future Socialist Leaders of America to find competent government leaders.
I Also imagine students would use student unions to send delegates to the Council of deputies
Political Science/ History
Socialist Theory by Professor Comrade Elizabeth Warren
History of the Revolution by Comrade Dick Chenny
Political theory of American Socialism by Comrade Bernie Sanders
Union theory by Comrade Trumpka
Theories of International communism by Commandante Luis Castro
GE requirements
Working Math (basically math you would use as a factory worker or other job)
American socialist institutions and government ( Civics)
Biology/ other science
Civil service (1-2 years of Volunteer service to the cause of the revolution and/ or the citizens, must be completed within a 8 year PHD time frame or to achieve or complete your degree) Used as a job training program to help create future leaders and/ or workers.
Study abroad (mandated 2 year in another country to experience internationalism of the socialist movement)
I imagine most other majors would be the same as in our timeline except Law and medicine would focus on the serving the people and not the money.
I also imagine there are ROTC type programs like Future Socialist Leaders of America to find competent government leaders.
I Also imagine students would use student unions to send delegates to the Council of deputies
Historyprofessor99
Banned
I know you told us about how union representatives are the senate and/ or house. But How many do each union get? Does it depend on membership? in which case at this point in time, the farmers would be the most represented.
Actually, the farmers are in a close second to the homemakers, given that most women at this point are not formally employed outside the home. There is a genuine effort to encourage women to seek employment, so this is likely to change.
Historyprofessor99
Banned
I kind of forgot. I assume we will reach higher levels of women in the workforce than OTL sooner.