I wonder what kind of Assassination plots would be formulated against Jake Featherston?
There were at least 3 in the novels:
Willy Knight's coup attempt
Nathan Bedford Forrest III's coup attempt
The atomic bombing of Newport News
I wonder what kind of Assassination plots would be formulated against Jake Featherston?
Don't forget about the attempt during the 1936 Richmond Summer Olympics. When a hotdog vendor almost killed him, but was stopped by Clarence Potter. Who was their to Featherston himself, and the only reason he shot the the assassin was to keep the guards from killing innocent bystanders.There were at least 3 in the novels:
Willy Knight's coup attempt
Nathan Bedford Forrest III's coup attempt
The atomic bombing of Newport News
GWI/WWI | GWII/WWII | |
GER | 1.75 Million | 10 Million |
RUS/SOV | 2.25 Million | 17 Million |
USA | 1.1 Million | 8.3 Million |
CSA | 0.9 Million | 5.15 Million |
I've done some rough calculations for what could potentially be casualty numbers in the Second Great War. By dividing OTL German and Soviet deaths from WWII by German and Russian deaths in WWI, and then multiplying them by the generally accepted figures for US and CS GWI deaths, I got the following results:
Adding in 8 Million for the Reduction adds to about 21.5 Million total deaths in North America, and 13 Million in the CSA alone, well over a third of the Pre-war population. These numbers are just a guess though, and I'd like to hear other people's thoughts.
GWI/WWI GWII/WWII GER 1.75 Million 10 Million RUS/SOV 2.25 Million 17 Million USA 1.1 Million 8.3 Million CSA 0.9 Million 5.15 Million
Also the CSA is not very similar to Nazi Germany, but that's another story.
Well except for the whole thing about deliberately killing millions of people in an attempted genocide. Also it goes without saying that there were cases of the Confederates treating US Pows very badly. Americans werent seen as an inferior race like the Nazis saw the Soviets but it was pretty close all in all ....
Fair enough, it was a rough experiment of sorts, and the numbers are certainly too high. the GWI numbers are taken from the books, where Morrell says the US loses a bit over a million and the CS a bit under a million. I do think that GWII numbers would be significantly higher than GWI though.I don't think it's a good idea to use OTL Soviet numbers for calculating US deaths. The North American front in GW2 is very different from OTL Eastern Front. The CSA is not waging a war of annihilation like Nazi Germany.
For civilian deaths, I'd use Belgium in WW1 since like the Germans in OTL and the Americans in TL 191 the CSA took and massacred hostages. So find the number of Belgiums executed by the Germans, divide it by the population of occupied Belgium and then multiply that number by the population of occupied Ohio and Pennsylvania. There would also be deaths from strategic bombing. I doubt the CSA could ever produce as many planes and bombs as Nazi Germany, so I'll take 20,000 as a very rough estimate for those killed in CSA air raids. That's about half the number of Brits the Germans killed in the blitz.
For the nuking of Philadelphia you could use Nuke Map.
Comparing US military deaths in GW2 with OTL USSR also doesn't work very well. The US forces would be better supplied than the Soviets and of course POW deaths would be much less since the Confederates aren't deliberately starving them to death. Maybe for estimating deaths we could take OTL Union battle deaths (not including any deaths from diseases) and adjusting for the greater population.
These probably will yield better numbers.
Also while it's common to say the TL191 US is like the USSR, it's actually a pretty inaccurate comparison. The only things they have in common are that they were invaded by a smaller revanchist neighbor on June 22, 1941 and they both deported a rebellious minority at the end of the war.
Also the CSA is not very similar to Nazi Germany, but that's another story.
The GW1 numbers look more plausible. It makes sense that the US would have more dead since they were fighting on two fronts. I wonder how many deaths Canada would have?
Edit: I'll try running some numbers later. There might be better OTL comparisons to use.
The Russian and German casualties are from OTL, sorry if I didn't make that clear.Casualties of GW1 sounds believeable. But for GW2 Russian and German casualties seems bit high IMO.
Fair enough, it was a rough experiment of sorts, and the numbers are certainly too high. the GWI numbers are taken from the books, where Morrell says the US loses a bit over a million and the CS a bit under a million. I do think that GWII numbers would be significantly higher than GWI though.
The Russian and German casualties are from OTL, sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I really think this borders on an offensive argument.First of all it flirts with the notion that all the CSA blacks had it coming to them because they were all Red Rebels against the CSA government.This is far from true as most blacks stayed if not loyal to the CSA government they stayed quiet and some put on the CSA uniform and fought for the CSA despite all it had done for them. Were any of them spared from the Destruction ? Also the argument that the CSA was only interested in killing off a disloyal fifth column of blacks in the CSA is disproved by what they did to Haiti. Haiti was targeted because it was a black ruled country with lots of professional black people in it who the CSA saw as subhuman which is very similar to the way Nazi Germany targeted Poland and the Soviet Union. The argument that the average OTL German had no knowledge of the Holocaust and nothing to do with it is very much what US troops heard in Germany in 1945 from countless former loyal Na.zis. This notion means that the German army was not responsible for much of what happened and we know it was. There wasnt a clean army in Nazi Germany or Freedomite CSA . The CSA killed blacks it came across in Ohio and elsewhere in the US proper and who knows what it would have done if it had won and actually spread down into Central and South America both of which have substantial black populations.The Population Reduction is different from the Holocaust. Other than both being genocides and both involving gas chambers, they're pretty different. A better comparison might be the Armenian genocide.
Almost all Holocaust vicitms were from Poland and the USSR. Very few were from Germany. But most victims of the population Reduction were residents of the CSA. Like the Armenians who lived among the Kurds and Turks Confederate blacks shared a country with Confederate whites.
I really think this borders on an offensive argument.First of all it flirts with the notion that all the CSA blacks had it coming to them because they were all Red Rebels against the CSA government.This is far from true as most blacks stayed if not loyal to the CSA government they stayed quiet and some put on the CSA uniform and fought for the CSA despite all it had done for them. Were any of them spared from the Destruction ?
Also the argument that the CSA was only interested in killing off a disloyal fifth column of blacks in the CSA is disproved by what they did to Haiti. Haiti was targeted because it was a black ruled country with lots of professional black people in it who the CSA saw as subhuman which is very similar to the way Nazi Germany targeted Poland and the Soviet Union.
The argument that the average OTL German had no knowledge of the Holocaust and nothing to do with it is very much what US troops heard in Germany in 1945 from countless former loyal Na.zis. This notion means that the German army was not responsible for much of what happened and we know it was.
There wasnt a clean army in Nazi Germany or Freedomite CSA . The CSA killed blacks it came across in Ohio and elsewhere in the US proper and who knows what it would have done if it had won and actually spread down into Central and South America both of which have substantial black populations.
The Nazis viewed Jews as conspirators who wanted to rule the world. For decades, and especially after the events at Van at the start of WW1, the Turks viewed Armenians as a fifth column, who needed to be destroyed to save the country. After the events of the Red Rebellion white Confederates viewed blacks as a dangerous fifth column, who needed to be destroyed to save the nation.
Most Germans were not *directly* involved in the Holocaust, but everyday Turks and Kurds took part in the Armenian genocide. And like the Turks and Kurds, everyday Confederates would have to be involved in the Population Reduction in order for it to occur.
Germans were directly involved though their knowledge and support of the Holocaust. Direct involvement is more that loading up trains and locking the doors of a gas chamber.Also if the Population Reduction was the logical extension of the Confederate view of blacks then the Holocaust was certainly the logical extension of the Nazi view of Jews,The fact that most Jews killed were from Poland and the USSR proves nothing other than thats where most Jews were living. German and Western European Jews were hardly exempt from the Holocaust there just were not as many of them, On a related note we have no reason to believe that if the CSA had won that they would have not instituted a "black free" policy wherever they ruled including sections of the USA if they annexed them as well as whatever they took in Mexico,The Caribbean and Central and South America.. Yes we dont know for sure if they would have gone that far but if they had won there isnt much that could have stopped them and its clear that black people wouldnt have a future in areas ruled by the Confederacy which certainly was what the Nazis thought about Jews in areas ruled by Germany. Again I fail to see how the Population Reduction is not like the Holocaust ?Where are you getting this from? I never wrote that Germans didn't know about the Holocaust, or that the Heer didn't commit war crimes. A quick search of my posts in After 1900 would reveal I know those to be false.
Cincinnatus Driver hear rumors that the CS Army was harder on US blacks than the Freedom Party was on Confederate blacks. While there certainly were atrocities committed in Ohio and Pennsylvania, they were probably more like the massacres of colonial troops carried out by the Wehrmacht and SS during the invasion of France., than the Final Solution. Like those German atrocities, the Confederates were inspired by racist propaganda, but there were no official orders from Berlin/Richmond to kill all colonial soldiers/black Americans. Anyway, the black population of the US is very small in TL 191, so there wouldn't have been many in occupied Ohio and Pennsylvania
As for Confederate plans to expand the Population Reduction, there is little evidence. The CSA occupied the Bahamas during the war, and did not kill the black population there. There is no evidence that the Freedomites wanted to expand into Latin America. They were mostly concerned with defeating the US and making the CSA the preeminent North American power. Also, Jefferson Pinkard in his interrogation says that the CSA never harmed any Yankee blacks. Of course, the interrogators reminded him of Haiti.
Germans were directly involved though their knowledge and support of the Holocaust. Direct involvement is more that loading up trains and locking the doors of a gas chamber.Also if the Population Reduction was the logical extension of the Confederate view of blacks then the Holocaust was certainly the logical extension of the Nazi view of Jews,The fact that most Jews killed were from Poland and the USSR proves nothing other than thats where most Jews were living. German and Western European Jews were hardly exempt from the Holocaust there just were not as many of them, On a related note we have no reason to believe that if the CSA had won that they would have not instituted a "black free" policy wherever they ruled including sections of the USA if they annexed them as well as whatever they took in Mexico,The Caribbean and Central and South America.. Yes we dont know for sure if they would have gone that far but if they had won there isnt much that could have stopped them and its clear that black people wouldnt have a future in areas ruled by the Confederacy which certainly was what the Nazis thought about Jews in areas ruled by Germany. Again I fail to see how the Population Reduction is not like the Holocaust ?
Didn't Morrell take part in cutting part of the Trans Canadian Railway in 1916? I mean he was sent to Western Canada after being banished from the General Staff for a disaster in Utah.
I wrote a piece a few years ago on the American home front in SGW. I think I had the total US dead at 900,000 with with about 600,000 wounded. I don't much care what the Confederate dead is, as they lost.Yeah, GW2 casualties would definitely be higher. Especially for the Confederates (even before considering the population reduction). By the end the army was basically scraping the bottom of the manpower barrel, and lots of civilians were killed in air raids and the atomic bombings.