Henry Tudor, Heretic and Father of Kings
- Thread starter Cate13
- Start date
Yes there is a bit of inbreeding in true European royalty tradition, but Kathryn's very proud of her family and didn't want to kick off another dynasty. Therefor a Tudor groom was required.
And no spoilers on Margaret and her pregnancy, details will be forthcoming. I'm glad you are enjoying the timeline
This is not the first time I've mentioned such things.
These concerns shall be addressed in the epilogue-like sections.
I'm glad you are enjoying the timeline!
Section Ninety-Nine - 1578
“The Imperial Habsburgs found themselves in something of an embarrassing situation. For the third time, the might of the Empire had failed to cow an unimportant isolated island. They handled it in the way that many monarchs of Europe handled these things: by pretending it never happened.
This did make the peace talks rather difficult, but in the end, for the first time in almost four decades, an official peace would exist between England and the Holy Roman Empire. Arthur Habsburg would have to make several concessions, but he wouldn’t officially renounce his claim.
In turn, Queen Kathryn would make only one concession—England had, after all, won the war. Queen Catherine of Aragon would be buried beside her husband with the full honors owed her as Queen of England.
In a move that would surprise many, Dowager Empress Maria, daughter of King Arthur and Queen Catherine, would be escorting her mother’s bones home.
In what many would now call a ‘Power Move’ Queen Kathryn would insist on delaying Dowager Empress Maria’s visit. But in reality the reason was much simpler: Queen Kathryn was not in England to receive her. She was in Ireland awaiting the birth of her first grandchild.”
This did make the peace talks rather difficult, but in the end, for the first time in almost four decades, an official peace would exist between England and the Holy Roman Empire. Arthur Habsburg would have to make several concessions, but he wouldn’t officially renounce his claim.
In turn, Queen Kathryn would make only one concession—England had, after all, won the war. Queen Catherine of Aragon would be buried beside her husband with the full honors owed her as Queen of England.
In a move that would surprise many, Dowager Empress Maria, daughter of King Arthur and Queen Catherine, would be escorting her mother’s bones home.
In what many would now call a ‘Power Move’ Queen Kathryn would insist on delaying Dowager Empress Maria’s visit. But in reality the reason was much simpler: Queen Kathryn was not in England to receive her. She was in Ireland awaiting the birth of her first grandchild.”
Clark Underwood, “The Habsburgs and the English Throne”
Last edited:
Section One Hundred - 1570s
“The 1570s were a difficult time for the French members of the House of Tudor. While France had not officially been at war with either England or Navarre, there were moments of tension, especially during France’s Cousins’ War. Then with the reign of Louis XIII, these Tudors, as protestants would find themselves almost constant danger.
Dowager Duchess Anne Sophie, also known as Princess Anne Sophie Tudor of Navarre, had been in France for over thirty years. She was a devote awakener, and her three children were avid protestants. Though, through her son as the Duke of Guise and her own friendship with Marie Stuart [1] the Dowager Duchess was able to weather the reign of Louis XIII and emerge on the other side.
The younger Tudors would not find themselves so lucky.”
[1] Anne Sophie Tudor would take an almost motherly role in Marie Stuart’s life.
“Madelyn Tudor, daughter of Princess Renee of France, was the wife of the Marquis de Elbeuf, Charles de Lorraine. A quiet gracious woman, many were surprised when she refused her husband’s command to convert to Catholicism. (The Marquis having decided that having an Awakener for a wife, was no longer politically expedient). What would follow was a period of intimidation and harassment.
Thankfully for Madelyn Tudor, it was also no politically expedient to harass the sister to the King of Navarre or the aunt of the Duke of Brittany. So, no final solutions would be used. But she would find herself separated from her children and sent to stay with her nephew, the Duke of Brittany.
There she would discover she was pregnant and give birth to her third child, a son she would name Francis for her nephew. He would be her last child.”
“Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes, the only son of Prince Henry and Princess Renee Valois, found himself in a difficult situation late in the fifteen seventies. A confrontational fervent protestant, Duke Francis found himself on the outs in the French Court.
Alerted to the danger by the treatment of his sister Madelyn, Duke Francis knew he could very easily lose quiet a lot. Therefor he announced his intentions to travel and visit his various relatives. This took him out of the country (out of sight, out of mind) and placed him in locations where, were anything to happen to his lands, powerful relatives would be right on hand to help.
While he would live functionally in exile, he would retain his title.”
Dowager Duchess Anne Sophie, also known as Princess Anne Sophie Tudor of Navarre, had been in France for over thirty years. She was a devote awakener, and her three children were avid protestants. Though, through her son as the Duke of Guise and her own friendship with Marie Stuart [1] the Dowager Duchess was able to weather the reign of Louis XIII and emerge on the other side.
The younger Tudors would not find themselves so lucky.”
A. E. Bell, “Louis XIII”
[1] Anne Sophie Tudor would take an almost motherly role in Marie Stuart’s life.
“Madelyn Tudor, daughter of Princess Renee of France, was the wife of the Marquis de Elbeuf, Charles de Lorraine. A quiet gracious woman, many were surprised when she refused her husband’s command to convert to Catholicism. (The Marquis having decided that having an Awakener for a wife, was no longer politically expedient). What would follow was a period of intimidation and harassment.
Thankfully for Madelyn Tudor, it was also no politically expedient to harass the sister to the King of Navarre or the aunt of the Duke of Brittany. So, no final solutions would be used. But she would find herself separated from her children and sent to stay with her nephew, the Duke of Brittany.
There she would discover she was pregnant and give birth to her third child, a son she would name Francis for her nephew. He would be her last child.”
Melantha Jones, “Religious Acceptance in Renaissance England”
“Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes, the only son of Prince Henry and Princess Renee Valois, found himself in a difficult situation late in the fifteen seventies. A confrontational fervent protestant, Duke Francis found himself on the outs in the French Court.
Alerted to the danger by the treatment of his sister Madelyn, Duke Francis knew he could very easily lose quiet a lot. Therefor he announced his intentions to travel and visit his various relatives. This took him out of the country (out of sight, out of mind) and placed him in locations where, were anything to happen to his lands, powerful relatives would be right on hand to help.
While he would live functionally in exile, he would retain his title.”
Harper Wayne, “Keeping Up with The Tudors, Your Guide to Who’s Who”
It's always great to see more from you and this timeline.
The 16th century is coming to the end soon and I have been wondering how an extended Tudor lineage would affect British colonization in the Americas. My first thought is about Roanoke, since that venture is in 1585. And secondly is how the Church of England will develop, which would drastically change how the Puritans formed (or if they will).
The 16th century is coming to the end soon and I have been wondering how an extended Tudor lineage would affect British colonization in the Americas. My first thought is about Roanoke, since that venture is in 1585. And secondly is how the Church of England will develop, which would drastically change how the Puritans formed (or if they will).
English colonization has already changed considerably. Due to Ferdinand II of Aragon having a son by his second wife Castile and Aragon would not remain unified. The countries basically went through a really bad divorce, during which they basically ignored their colonies. England, led by King Alexander, would take the opportunity to basically take over the Spanish colonies. Later they would 'buy' the colonies from Aragon. So, there will be no Roanoke.
There is no Church of England nor does one religion have the majority in England. The largest minority would be the Awakeners, followed in order, by the Catholics, and Lutherans and Calvinists. Because of this, England is very religiously tolerant (to Christians, Jews are still out of luck). So, as the Puritans and Quakers start forming, there won't really be a reason to leave England, and most of them will be staying in England.
I'm glad you are enjoy this timeline
Thanks for you review.
Section One Hundred and One - 1578
“Prince Henri Tudor, heir to Navarre, shocked his family by remarrying, and a morganatic marriage at that. He would wed the Deaconess of Longchamp, a former Abbess, named Garbiñe. Deemed completely unsuitable by the majority of the Navarresse court due to her rough French—Basque being her first language—and that she continued in her position as Deaconess.
In contrast the commoners enjoyed the romance and story tale nature of the marriage, and King Henri III appreciated her influence on his son. For, Deaconess Garbiñe did much to affect Prince Henri’s behavior. After their marriage he returned to active court life—something he had avoided since the death of his first wife.”
“The marriage of Prince Henri Tudor of Navarre and Princess Christina Oldenburg of Denmark left scars on the Navarrese branch of the Tudor family. Their frequent quarrels are considered to be the reason for the rift between Prince Henri and Prince Francis Tudor, Duke of Brittany. The deaths of their two sons, Prince Antoine and Prince Christian, left the family reeling. And the suicide of Princess Christina was just the last straw. In many ways the family was numb. They had lost so much and even before the loss the family had been fragile.
It was into this family that Deaconess Garbiñe married. Born a poor child from a family with too many mouths to feed, she had grown up in the local Abby. When the Awakened movement swept through Navarre she had converted. One of the few Deaconesses, she was a remarkable woman. While she would be instrumental in his rejoining to court, more importantly she was instrumental in his rejoining his family.”
In contrast the commoners enjoyed the romance and story tale nature of the marriage, and King Henri III appreciated her influence on his son. For, Deaconess Garbiñe did much to affect Prince Henri’s behavior. After their marriage he returned to active court life—something he had avoided since the death of his first wife.”
Ethan Davidson, “Henry IV, the People’s King”
“The marriage of Prince Henri Tudor of Navarre and Princess Christina Oldenburg of Denmark left scars on the Navarrese branch of the Tudor family. Their frequent quarrels are considered to be the reason for the rift between Prince Henri and Prince Francis Tudor, Duke of Brittany. The deaths of their two sons, Prince Antoine and Prince Christian, left the family reeling. And the suicide of Princess Christina was just the last straw. In many ways the family was numb. They had lost so much and even before the loss the family had been fragile.
It was into this family that Deaconess Garbiñe married. Born a poor child from a family with too many mouths to feed, she had grown up in the local Abby. When the Awakened movement swept through Navarre she had converted. One of the few Deaconesses, she was a remarkable woman. While she would be instrumental in his rejoining to court, more importantly she was instrumental in his rejoining his family.”
Tammie Waltherson, “For the Tudors’ It’s All About Family”
I really like your Timeline, but I have a few requests for your next post: First I would like it if you cover the birth of the new heir to the english throne. Then I would like to know more about Prince Henri‘s new marriage and the situation in scotland. Then I would like to have an overwiew of the Tudors, Valois, Habsburg, Stuart, Avis and Trastamara families. I would also like to know if you want to write a Sequel to this Timeline, for I would love to read it. Keep up the Good work!
Last edited:
I really like your Timeline, but I have a few requests for your next post: First I would like it if you cover the birth of the new heir to the english throne. Then I would like to know more about Prince Henri‘s new marriage and the situation in scotland. Then I would like to have an overwiew of the Tudors, Valois, Habsburg, Stuart, Avis and Trastamara families. I would also like to know if you want to write a Sequel to this Timeline, for I would love to read it. Keep up the Good work!
Wow, I am glad you want to know more
Firstly, childbirth will be covered in the next chapter. There will not be a much more about either Prince Henri's new marriage or Scotland; I'm reaching the end to the timeline. There might be a bit in a couple of epilogue sections, but not a lot. Between the main sections and the epilogue there will be the current Tudor family tree and I can also add the Valois, Habsburg, Stuart, Avis, and Trastamara families to the Family Tree section.I do not have plans for a sequel. The butterflies have spread far enough I'm having trouble tracking them. But I may drag out the epilogue sections, I have a lot of random things that I'd like to include.
Once again, I'm very happy you are excited about the timeline, I'm glad you are enjoying it.
Section One Hundred and Two - 1578 & 1579
“It is from Princess Margaret’s time in Ireland that we get her first surviving letters; she would frequently write her cousin Eleanor, Duchess of Suffolk. Throughout her pregnancy she requested advice regarding childbirth and childrearing. It is interesting to note that we have only one letter between Princess Margaret and Queen Kathryn during this time: the letter announcing her pregnancy.”
“After over four decades of uncertainty, the first of October of 1578 saw the Tudor reign secure. Princess Margaret of Wales would not only safely come through childbirth but would deliver twin sons: Arthur and Alexander Tudor. The two boys were viewed by all as handsome and healthy babes, and England rejoiced.
Archbishop Thomas had traveled with Queen Kathryn to Ireland to perform the Christening of both princes, as it was decided to delay returning to England until the twins and Princess Margaret could safely travel.”
“As I have shared my mother with the whole of England, I find myself unsure on the practices of mothers that are not Queen before God and man. For this time, and many more God willing, I find myself a mother foremost.
In all things Edmund is a comfert unto me, though he confesses he is quite unsure to the care of our sons, for they are quite small, though my Aunt the Lady of FitzGerald assures me that they are of healthy size for babes.
For all his unsurity my dearest husband is much more knowledgeable than I in regard to the babes. He tells me his knowledge comes from prince James, who rembered his sister as a babe. I find it amusing that the youngest of us four was the most…”
“I find Ireland the perfect place for babes. Without a court I have naught a claim on my time but my darling sons. Ereyesterday, I found Edmund laying on a blanket with the two of them, all three upon their fronts, their heads together. It appeared they were staring into each others eyes. It was the most peaceful scene. I myself will often just set and hold one or both for hours, just holding them.
I find I dread that they will someday have their own household and be so far from my side…”
“The doctors thy illustrious person has sent have assured me that my own person and both little princes are of health sound enough to travel and return to England.”
Professor Laura Anderson, “The Stewart Queen”
“After over four decades of uncertainty, the first of October of 1578 saw the Tudor reign secure. Princess Margaret of Wales would not only safely come through childbirth but would deliver twin sons: Arthur and Alexander Tudor. The two boys were viewed by all as handsome and healthy babes, and England rejoiced.
Archbishop Thomas had traveled with Queen Kathryn to Ireland to perform the Christening of both princes, as it was decided to delay returning to England until the twins and Princess Margaret could safely travel.”
Thomas Nelson, “Kathryn Tudor and the Golden Era”
“As I have shared my mother with the whole of England, I find myself unsure on the practices of mothers that are not Queen before God and man. For this time, and many more God willing, I find myself a mother foremost.
In all things Edmund is a comfert unto me, though he confesses he is quite unsure to the care of our sons, for they are quite small, though my Aunt the Lady of FitzGerald assures me that they are of healthy size for babes.
For all his unsurity my dearest husband is much more knowledgeable than I in regard to the babes. He tells me his knowledge comes from prince James, who rembered his sister as a babe. I find it amusing that the youngest of us four was the most…”
Selection of a letter from Princess Margaret of Wales to her cousin, Duchess of Suffolk
“I find Ireland the perfect place for babes. Without a court I have naught a claim on my time but my darling sons. Ereyesterday, I found Edmund laying on a blanket with the two of them, all three upon their fronts, their heads together. It appeared they were staring into each others eyes. It was the most peaceful scene. I myself will often just set and hold one or both for hours, just holding them.
I find I dread that they will someday have their own household and be so far from my side…”
Fragment of a letter from Princess Margaret of Wales, presumed to be to her cousin, Duchess Eleanor Cromwell
“The doctors thy illustrious person has sent have assured me that my own person and both little princes are of health sound enough to travel and return to England.”
Selection from letter to Queen Kathryn from Princess Margaret of Wales
Section One Hundred and Three - 1579
“Princess Margaret of Wales, Prince Edmund Tudor, and their sons Arthur and Alexander would arrive back in England in the spring of fifteen seventy-nine along with their household, including Prince Henry Tudor. There would be a series of feasts and celebrations for the two princes, who continued in good health.
With the return of Princess Margaret to England, Queen Kathryn was left without an excuse to delay the visit of Dowager Empress Maria and the state funeral of Queen Catherine.”
“Negotiations regarding the Imperial Visit proceeded quickly. Dowager Empress Maria would be proceeded by the Imperial Ambassador by two months to ensure all details were overseen.
Empress Dowager Maria landed on English shores the 4thof August 1579. From there she would travel to London. She would be welcomed by Queen Kathryn and her daughter Princess Margaret of Wales.
The English Court would celebrate the ending of tensions with hunts and feasts and other celebrations. Three weeks after Empress Dowager Maria’s arrival, Queen Catherine would be interred with her husband, King Arthur Tudor, and only son, Prince John of Wales.”
“The celebration for the first birthday of Prince Arthur and Prince Alexander saw a unique sight: the presence of five generations of Tudors. A son, a granddaughter, a great-granddaughter, a great-great-granddaughter, and two great-great-great-grandsons of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York were gathered together.
While there would be further conflicts, this day signified the beginning of the reconciliation of the Tudor family.”
With the return of Princess Margaret to England, Queen Kathryn was left without an excuse to delay the visit of Dowager Empress Maria and the state funeral of Queen Catherine.”
Elizabeth Tudor, Duchess of Calais, “Kathryn Tudor”
“Negotiations regarding the Imperial Visit proceeded quickly. Dowager Empress Maria would be proceeded by the Imperial Ambassador by two months to ensure all details were overseen.
Empress Dowager Maria landed on English shores the 4thof August 1579. From there she would travel to London. She would be welcomed by Queen Kathryn and her daughter Princess Margaret of Wales.
The English Court would celebrate the ending of tensions with hunts and feasts and other celebrations. Three weeks after Empress Dowager Maria’s arrival, Queen Catherine would be interred with her husband, King Arthur Tudor, and only son, Prince John of Wales.”
Ulysses Park, “Catherine of Aragon, the After England years”
“The celebration for the first birthday of Prince Arthur and Prince Alexander saw a unique sight: the presence of five generations of Tudors. A son, a granddaughter, a great-granddaughter, a great-great-granddaughter, and two great-great-great-grandsons of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York were gathered together.
While there would be further conflicts, this day signified the beginning of the reconciliation of the Tudor family.”
Tammie Waltherson, “For the Tudors’ It’s All About Family”
We're running towards the end...I wonder how much longer Henry's got. A small part of me wants him to make it to a hundred.
Dearest @Cate13 , you have created such a beautiful and captivating Tudoristic world with this TL. It will be a sad day for all of us when you finish it.
Oh by the way, the inspiration for the Tudor horses were the story of Godolphin Arabian and the two other founder stallions of the Thoroughbred, right?
Oh by the way, the inspiration for the Tudor horses were the story of Godolphin Arabian and the two other founder stallions of the Thoroughbred, right?
I’m glad you are enjoying the timeline. Originally I was thinking of having Prince Henry reach 100, but in the end it felt to improbable. Thanks for your comment
Why thank you
I'm glad you are enjoying it.And yes the Tudor horse breed was based on the story of Godopohin Arabian. For awhile while I was growing up, the King of the Wind was my favorite book. An early hint into my interest in historical fiction.
Why thank you
Marguerite Henry was a fantastic Author.
I had read 'King of the Wind' in my english Classes in school, our teacher loved the books and so they were her choice for us to read besides the normal school classics.
I always found the Story fascinating.
It has such an interesting POV/narrator. And I’m biased, my grandparents bred Arabians.
Section One Hundred and Four - 1579
AN: So this is the technical ending of Prince Henry, Heretic and Father of Kings. But there will be a whole slew of family trees, and then a yet unnumbered set of epilogues. I have a hodgepodge collection of details that I'd like to share, but if anyone has any questions they would want to epilogues to answer feel free to ask.
“Shortly after the visit of Dowager Empress Maria, Prince Henry would pass away in in sleep. He would be found by his groom, early on the morning of November the eleventh in the year fifteen seventy-nine. The courts of England, Navarre, Denmark and Norway would enter into mourning. In the Awakened churches, Deacons would hold special services, reading from his writings. Europe mourned.”
“The death of Prince Henry Tudor shaped the decade. For so almost a century, Prince Henry had walked the earth, and for many it seemed he would continue for a century more. But as the people mourned a prince and a religious leader, his nine living children grieved a father.”
“For near forty years, my father has been a shadow that stretch o’re all the earth. Like the sun in the sky, all-encompassing but far. I would have thought I would mind not his absence for he hath always been absent to me. And in truth, I did grieve the loss of my dear brother Charles more, but I find the world is lessor for lack of his presence.”
“Father was never proud of me. I had not Francis’s fire nor Cecily’s wit. Charles [her husband] wants me to convert, and almost I stumbled. But now Father watches from above, in this I will make him proud.”
“In all things I have always been is my father’s son, but what can I be with him gone? For what is a son without a father? ”
“It is strange how grief hits. I find what I will mourn most is his memory of Mother. For all others when called upon to speak of the Lady Anne Boleyn speak of her faith and dedication. With my sister gone, father was the last to speak of her temper and wit. In a way, I have lost my mother again.”
“Father is dead. There are no words.”
“How many times have I grieved him? It always felt like he died when we parted, for time and again I thought I would never see Papa again. When he and mother parted, when he left for Denmark, when I left for Hesse-Kassel. But always we would meet again. I find I can not convice myself that he is truly gone. In my very bones I feel as if one day soon, he will be here, and I will have Papa again.”
“Dear sister, I know how we have quarreled, but I find in this moment I want nothing more than your presence. For I can not grieve the father Elizabeth knew nor the one that Edmund had. All I had was the father he was to you and I. Come visit me that we may grieve together and that I may know that we are sisters still.”
“Never before have I found the words of scriptures wanting. But now I have no surety at the fate of Father or whether we will ever again stand together. And I find I want nothing more than to know that I will see his face again.”
“He who has been father to us all, has gone to the gates of the Father in Heaven”
“Shortly after the visit of Dowager Empress Maria, Prince Henry would pass away in in sleep. He would be found by his groom, early on the morning of November the eleventh in the year fifteen seventy-nine. The courts of England, Navarre, Denmark and Norway would enter into mourning. In the Awakened churches, Deacons would hold special services, reading from his writings. Europe mourned.”
Irene Whent, “Prince Henry’s Last Trip”
“The death of Prince Henry Tudor shaped the decade. For so almost a century, Prince Henry had walked the earth, and for many it seemed he would continue for a century more. But as the people mourned a prince and a religious leader, his nine living children grieved a father.”
Rachel Rowell, “Father of the Reawakening, and a Good Father”
“For near forty years, my father has been a shadow that stretch o’re all the earth. Like the sun in the sky, all-encompassing but far. I would have thought I would mind not his absence for he hath always been absent to me. And in truth, I did grieve the loss of my dear brother Charles more, but I find the world is lessor for lack of his presence.”
Selection from the journal of John Tudor, Duke of Julich-Cleves-Berg
“Father was never proud of me. I had not Francis’s fire nor Cecily’s wit. Charles [her husband] wants me to convert, and almost I stumbled. But now Father watches from above, in this I will make him proud.”
Journal entry from the journal of Marquise Madeleine of Elbeuf
“In all things I have always been is my father’s son, but what can I be with him gone? For what is a son without a father? ”
Selection from a letter from Prince Edmund Tudor to his wife, Princess Margaret of Wales
“It is strange how grief hits. I find what I will mourn most is his memory of Mother. For all others when called upon to speak of the Lady Anne Boleyn speak of her faith and dedication. With my sister gone, father was the last to speak of her temper and wit. In a way, I have lost my mother again.”
Selection from the journal of Dowager Duchess of Suffolk Elizabeth
“Father is dead. There are no words.”
Entirety of journal entry for Francis Tudor, Duke of Chartes. It would be five months before the journal was continued
“How many times have I grieved him? It always felt like he died when we parted, for time and again I thought I would never see Papa again. When he and mother parted, when he left for Denmark, when I left for Hesse-Kassel. But always we would meet again. I find I can not convice myself that he is truly gone. In my very bones I feel as if one day soon, he will be here, and I will have Papa again.”
Selection from the journal of Dowager Landgravine Margaret of Hesse-Kassel
“Dear sister, I know how we have quarreled, but I find in this moment I want nothing more than your presence. For I can not grieve the father Elizabeth knew nor the one that Edmund had. All I had was the father he was to you and I. Come visit me that we may grieve together and that I may know that we are sisters still.”
Part of a letter from Cecily Tudor, Duchess of Buckingham to Madelyn Tudor, Marquise of Elbeuf
“Never before have I found the words of scriptures wanting. But now I have no surety at the fate of Father or whether we will ever again stand together. And I find I want nothing more than to know that I will see his face again.”
Notation found in the Archbishop Thomas Tudor’s Bible Translation
“He who has been father to us all, has gone to the gates of the Father in Heaven”
Selection from the address King Henri III gave announcing the death of Prince Henry
Last edited: