The Great Turk returns - Alternate resurging Ottomans (1747-1947)

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Nivek

EnvarKadri said:
Fantastic. Maybe Fernando could flee to Mexico city if things go wrong and we end with a Brazil like Empire of Spanish America. If the Philipins stay with Spain longer, I hope that the ottomans get to do something to protect the rights of the moro people. I dont mean annexation, I mean more like diplomatic preasure.
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I hate this cliche, if he goes, he will be kicked out, that worked for braganzas as brazil was more clearly dominated by the plantation aristocracy and most were pro braganza unlike the powder keg of the americas...maybe Peru that was a mining anti aristocracy but not alto peru(bolivia) would accept them
 
haider najib

haider najib

Nivek said:
yeah why not used them in spain?
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Cause spain be in open rebellion and britain is commited to spain more. Better to have british regulars fight in spain than have them fight in americas. Spanish troops will have a better time also for facade of power. It needs to be spanish troops or latin america knows spains fucked. Spain isn't short on manpower but skill. Also spanish navy can be alot helpful in beating down the natives in the americas quickly.
 

Nivek

haider najib said:
Cause spain be in open rebellion and britain is commited to spain more. Better to have british regulars fight in spain than have them fight in americas. Spanish troops will have a better time also for facade of power. It needs to be spanish troops or latin america knows spains fucked. Spain isn't short on manpower but skill. Also spanish navy can be alot helpful in beating down the natives in the americas quickly.
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Yes as they worked so well OTL, still for me the reason OTL latin america independance is there, that is not butterfly away, sorry i love my country even id that disapoint me a lot
 
haider najib

haider najib

Nivek said:
Yes as they worked so well OTL, still for me the reason OTL latin america independance is there, that is not butterfly away, sorry i love my country even id that disapoint me a lot
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Bailan and the fact spain could never be pacified showed it works. Well this is where we disagree im very pro-spanish in this let the spanish drop the boot on these rebels and enforce the rule of spain on them and form the spanish commonwealth.

Nivek said:
Yes as they worked so well OTL
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Is this referring to all or a specific part?
 

Nivek

haider najib said:
Bailan and the fact spain could never be pacified showed it works. Well this is where we disagree im very pro-spanish in this let the spanish drop the boot on these rebels and enforce the rule of spain on them and form the spanish commonwealth.
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Spain don't deserved such support(and telling the one with direct family in spain)
 

EnvarKadri

Nivek said:
I hate this cliche, if he goes, he will be kicked out, that worked for braganzas as brazil was more clearly dominated by the plantation aristocracy and most were pro braganza unlike the powder keg of the americas...maybe Peru that was a mining anti aristocracy but not alto peru(bolivia) would accept them
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I don't mean, Spains keeps us colonies, I mean we to steal spains monarch ala Brazil. I am not saying this garanties a United Hispanoamerica, but I think that México in particular could benefite from a Spanish monarch, after all by 1820 the cause of independence was practically defeated as the Mexican elite saw it as a cause of the indigenous and mestizo masses, but after the liberals took power in Spain the mexican elite declared in turn indendence from them. Feenando VII would be at home with such a reactionary elite, and depending how things go Mexico could delay or avoid a good portion of it's 19th century conflicts and keep central america, the north and the Caribeans and maybe the Philipins as the Mexican Empire. I am not shure about the rest of the viceroyalties. The one I know best is Río de la Plata. I think that the porteño elite could be keep happy enough if the spanish peninsular monopoly is abolish and Buenos Aires is allowed the free trade with England they want. But giving more autonomy to Bs. As. is gonna activate demands from the rest of the provinces in Río de la Plata Vice. to have autonomy FROM Bs. As.. Maybe the monarchy can play both sides there against each other. Than in Perú's Viceroyalty you have a really loyal local white elite thats terrified of the indigenous mayorities and was the center of Spanish power in otl. And finally in Nueva Granada you have a local plantation elite that reads Rousseau and wants democracy and freedom but only for white landownders. In otl the Spanish had the support of most of the black and indian majority because of how rejected the plantation elite were, Bolivar had to include the Mulato freeman in order to win and he only did that in his fourt attemp. This could go a lot of ways, all of them interesting.
 
haider najib

haider najib

EnvarKadri said:
I don't mean, Spains keeps us colonies, I mean we to steal spains monarch ala Brazil. I am not saying this garanties a United Hispanoamerica, but I think that México in particular could benefite from a Spanish monarch, after all by 1820 the cause of independence was practically defeated as the Mexican elite saw it as a cause of the indigenous and mestizo masses, but after the liberals took power in Spain the mexican elite declared in turn indendence from them. Feenando VII would be at home with such a reactionary elite, and depending how things go Mexico could delay or avoid a good portion of it's 19th century conflicts and keep central america, the north and the Caribeans and maybe the Philipins as the Mexican Empire. I am not shure about the rest of the viceroyalties. The one I know best is Río de la Plata. I think that the porteño elite could be keep happy enough if the spanish peninsular monopoly is abolish and Buenos Aires is allowed the free trade with England they want. But giving more autonomy to Bs. As. is gonna activate demands from the rest of the provinces in Río de la Plata Vice. to have autonomy FROM Bs. As.. Maybe the monarchy can play both sides there against each other. Than in Perú's Viceroyalty you have a really loyal local white elite thats terrified of the indigenous mayorities and was the center of Spanish power in otl. And finally in Nueva Granada you have a local plantation elite that reads Rousseau and wants democracy and freedom but only for white landownders. In otl the Spanish had the support of most of the black and indian majority because of how rejected the plantation elite were, Bolivar had to include the Mulato freeman in order to win and he only did that in his fourt attemp. This could go a lot of ways, all of them interesting.
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I thought you were turkish?
 
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