Map Thread XVIII

[Etruscan-enthusiast35]

Aren't Native Americans typically Democratic?

Usually, but I imagine the native populations being influenced by the traditionally conservative Mormons. That and also it's possible the native majority counties, which lack particularly high populations might feel like they're issues are ignored or overlooked by the states Democratic party.

 

[Skallagrim]

This one has no perfectly tangible POD, because it started as an attempt to create better borders for the Near and Middle East. ("Better" in this case meaning "making it less likely for people who hate each other to be stuck in one country arbitrarily drawn up by colonialist jerks".) But then I decided to set it in a world that avoided the mass killing of Armenians and Assyrian Christians. A vague backstory coalesced. Thus it ended up being a depiction of this particular region in an ATL that avoided any real World Wars. As a result, this world featured a dismantling of the Ottoman Empire by European powers, and a longer-lasting colonialism (that did have the up-side of resulting in a far more neat and orderly decolonisation).

This is not to say that there were no unpleasantries. Turkey went through a revanchist phase that didn't end well at all (but is a very calm social democracy these days). Settling on definitive borders for the Central Asian states was not easy. Persia's expansionist designs required foreign intervention (although a change in dynasties has turned the territorially reduced Empire into a land of peace and commerce). Zionism still led to conflict, and ultimately to the (British-backed) expulsion of Arabs from the "State of Zion". Some diplomatic wrangling got the Hashemites to take in the refugees (and spread them all across the Kingdom, which has resulted in their being absorbed into the larger populace).

Some of the worst problems involved the forced population exchanges in the Levant. The coastal Levantine Federation, orginally a French idea, unites the Christians, the Alewites and the Druze. They began fircibly removing a lot of the Sunni and Shi'a Arabs from this new country. As a result, their own kinsmen were largely expelled from Hashemite Arabia. Conversely, the Arab Muslims cast out of the coastal Federation ended up in the Hashemite Kingdom. This was a very messy process, with a needless human cost. Lebanese Shi'a Arabs, moreover, feeling unwelcome in the distinctly Sunni country of the Hashemite Dynasty, set up their own state. They continue to cling to the goal of regaining the land they have lost. (Their situation is a bit like the Palestinians of OTL, except they are fully self-governing.) Their improvised statelet, unrecognised by both the Hashemite Kingdom and the Levantine Federation, but not really interfered with either, has embraced revolutionary syndicalism. Probably hoping to get support from Indonesia— hoping in vain, mostly.

By and large, the whole region is far more peaceful and developed than in OTL. "Islamic radicalism" is seen as a nineteenth century phenomenon in this world. "Terrorism" is a word associated only with the radical fringes of the syndicalist movement. The arch-conservatives of Nejd, for instance, are seen by their fellow Muslims and by the world at large about the same way we in OTL regard the Amish. (And indeed, their ATL branch of fundamentalism has carried them into an inward-facing tendency rather of that type.) The idea, which has gained some traction in OTL, that there is some sort of disconnect or natural hostility between the Islamic world and "Modernity" is almost entirely absent here.

 

[Etruscan-enthusiast35]

The Mormons of Utah considered themselves as being most English, as they continue to do so in most polls about ethnicity. These from a different branch? I don't know how Natives (were there Apaches down there?) would feel about Mormonism, if it's claims about Natives didn't line up with what the Natives already knew.

For the Mormons there, my guess is ethic Germans who moved there and found converting to the already well established Mormonism would offer some level of benefits.
As for the Natives who aren't followers of an Indigenous Faith, they might be willing to turn a blind eye to Mormon claims about their ancestry, seeing as how the other alternatives were Catholics and Protestants who committed much worse crimes to them than a simple fantastical claim about their history.
Or alot of people claiming Native ancestry are of mixed ancestry but just identify more with their native ancestry.

 

[ZeSteel]

Today is Columbus Day, also celebrated as Indigenous People's Day, so I figure now is a good time to post this map that will eventually accompany my TL Guns, Germs, and Good Intentions. All American Indian Reservations are ISOTed to the year 1418, the map takes place 25 years later, when the uptimers, their allies, and the uptimer-influenced nations have banded together in a sort of EU-type free trade area, mutual defense treaty, and nascent multinational entity called the Federation of American Peoples.

(Spoiler, I guess, but it's in the intro post of the TL so idk)

Just some advice, the Incas began expanding in 1438 so they should be larger than they are now. Here is a website that shows the rate of Incan expansion: https://www.ancient.eu/Inca_Civilization/
Hope it will be useful.

 

[Tert2567]

Going to give you an opportunity to expand on this. You have until 17:50 ZULU (GMT) to do so.

And what do you want me to "expand"?

 

[CalBear]

And what do you want me to "expand"?

The entire concept, especially related to minorities and 100% Russian Orthodox membership

 

[CalBear]

My God. You seem to ignore that I've said it is bad. I'm not going to engage in this conversation any more.

Don't have be in a conversation. You simply have to follow the bloody policies and rules of the Board.

You posted THREE times after I noted that there was no way, short of a well written ASB scenario (and even then it would be dodgy) to achieve what you had brought up as a goal. THREE TIMES. I can't really say why I didn't just toss you after the second, much less the third, time, but I will admit I am felling some regret.

 

[WhiteDragon25]

From the same depths of insanity that results from incredible boredom, I give you: ALIEN SPACE BATS - THE SEQUEL!

It all started with creating the Gran Colombia you see here, and then a decision to balance it out with an expanded Empire of Brazil, and then to give the Mexican Empire its Reconquista alongside a helping of a balkanized USA for fun, and after that to unite the Arab world into a new Super-Caliphate...

Well, long story short, it just kept escalating from there. Just about the only things I didn't change from when I started are Japanese-held Taiwan and Korea, and that's because I forgot about them by the time I uploaded the map to Imgur... eh, shouldn't be a problem, given that Japan itself seems to be having its own troubles at the moment...

Oh, and despite the world having gone completely batshit crazy and the island of Great Britain balkanized beyond recognition: what's left of Argentina still doesn't have the Falklands.


Now on a slightly more saner note, here's a Kaiserreich Elseworlds map I've made too:

And yes, you're seeing this correctly: the United States is still in its Second Civil War, and the Federal Government is on its last legs (the purple areas you see being the disputed conflict zones between the Syndicalists, Longists, Federalists, and the Mexicans). Oh, and the Russian Republic has a Soviet Uprising on its hands too.

The Ottomans also bounced back pretty well from their "Sick Man of Europe" status by beating back the Cairo Pact.

 

[B_Munro]

I go over this in the first post of the TL! My research suggest that modern medical technology - even things as simple as basic sanitary procedures, proper care for the infected, and establishing quarantines, but going all the way up to vaccines - would vastly reduce the mortality rate. You'd still get large dieoffs, to be sure, but the rate would be less than the hundreds of millions of OTL and possibly "only" in the tens of millions.

"Hundreds" of millions? That sounds a bit off: high end estimates for the population of the Americas in 1492 are under 120 million. China didn't have more people than that in 1492, and there probably wasn't over half a billion globally. Average estimates for Amerindians are in the 40-60 millions range.

 

[TheScottishMongol]

"Hundreds" of millions? That sounds a bit off: high end estimates for the population of the Americas in 1492 are under 120 million. China didn't have more people than that in 1492, and there probably wasn't over half a billion globally. Average estimates for Amerindians are in the 40-60 millions range.

I probably misspoke, but you could still have an order of magnitude fewer deaths thanks to modern medical technology (at least I think so).

 

[J. Westrate]

One issue. Richard Cromwell DID become a Lord Protector IOTL. If you mentoined this from an instory point of view it might work, but at this point the cause doesn't match the effect. Or something like that. You also seem to have wanked Granada, New Granada, and, I assume, Grenada and the Grenadines.

By that, I meant Richard Cromwell established the Cromwellian dynasty for the Protectorate. By 1800, they're on Oliver III Cromwell, heir to Oliver II Cromwell, Richard's son. The things that happened to Spain and its empire are a result of a second POD: Philip III of Spain is successful in reducing Portugal to a Spanish province after striking a deal with the Portuguese nobles that they would have a Viceroyalty of Portugal to rule over, through a parliament, in union with the Spanish crown. Not all of the Portuguese nobles agreed to this, and formed a nationalist conspiracy against Philip's rule. They, the Forty Conspirators, were betrayed by one of their number, Jorge de Melo, General of the Galleys. The rest of the Forty were hunted down and executed.

Cool: Irish Carolina, probably still named Carolina! Double cool: Nova Scotia is actually Scottish here

(Triple cool, and this is a really weird thing to notice: that Dutch bit of America actually has the general shape of the Seventeen United Netherlands. Tell me you did that on purpose.)

Carolina is part of New Hibernia, the Irish Catholic Confederation's holdings in the New World, along with Bermuda. New Netherlands was not intentionally shaped like the United Netherlands, but that is a cool coincidence.

 

[Minchandre]

Anno Domini 1800
POD: Charles II of Ireland becomes Catholic, causing Parliament to reject him as a candidate for a successor to Cromwell. Richard Cromwell becomes Lord Protector instead.

How did Ireland (and especially Scotland) become independent of the Commonwealth?

 

[buihurbarb]

Five levels of German irredentism- the darker the color the higher the level.

 

[B_Munro]

I probably misspoke, but you could still have an order of magnitude fewer deaths thanks to modern medical technology (at least I think so).

Sorry, extreme high-end estimates of native American populations is something which annoys me, because there is usually a sense of righteous finger-wagging of the "paradisical America almost totally depopulated by evil Europeans" variety along with it. I'd agree with your general point: after all, even the very thin medical care on the ground in many parts of Africa is still enough to greatly reduce childhood mortality.

 

[damein fisher]

Five levels of German irredentism- the darker the color the higher the level.

View attachment 413294

I would have put the darkest areas of France, as well as Italy even darker, as at least Istria, Slovenia, And Inner Czechia were a part of Austria

 

[Sea]

The state flags, mapped.

 

[Library of Alexandria]

I've decided to move my Alternate WW1 over to worlda. (WWI was between France, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Russia, Belgium, and Turkey in the Entente and Germany, Romania, Mecca and GB in the Hamburg pact, and Serbia fighting A-H but keeping ties with the Russians)

 

[skozik]

Something slightly goofy!

 

[Augustine Sedira]

Don't have be in a conversation. You simply have to follow the bloody policies and rules of the Board.

You posted THREE times after I noted that there was no way, short of a well written ASB scenario (and even then it would be dodgy) to achieve what you had brought up as a goal. THREE TIMES. I can't really say why I didn't just toss you after the second, much less the third, time, but I will admit I am felling some regret.

I will apologize for maintaining the conversation. I just felt that I was misunderstood. Well, what's done cannot be undone.

 

[Remitonov]

View attachment 413302
The state flags, mapped.

That is one abstract @CalBear .