US does not accept Frankfurt School as refugees

The Frankfurt School is often credited with instigating major social changes in the West – and increasingly the globe – through its so-called “cultural Marxism” that is viewed as the foundation for disciplines like gay studies and women’s studies.

However, given the vehement refusal of the rest of the world to provide exile for Jewish victims of Nazism, and the fact that the Frankfurt School’s leading intellectuals were all Jewish, it has interested me to imagine an alternate history whereby the US does not or is not permitted to accept the Frankfurt School as Columbia University was to do in 1936.

I have imagined this as not implausible if a different Democrat – a Catholic or Southerner – had been elected back in 1932 and was more concerned than FDR was about the power of Marxism among working classes in Europe, and increasing Asia and Latin America.

Key questions are:
  • Where would the Frankfurt School have gone if the US did not accept them?
  • What would they have done in their alternate place of exile?
  • Might the School not have returned to Europe if their alternate exile was more distant?
 

kernals12

Banned
The Frankfurt School is often credited with instigating major social changes in the West – and increasingly the globe – through its so-called “cultural Marxism” that is viewed as the foundation for disciplines like gay studies and women’s studies.

However, given the vehement refusal of the rest of the world to provide exile for Jewish victims of Nazism, and the fact that the Frankfurt School’s leading intellectuals were all Jewish, it has interested me to imagine an alternate history whereby the US does not or is not permitted to accept the Frankfurt School as Columbia University was to do in 1936.

I have imagined this as not implausible if a different Democrat – a Catholic or Southerner – had been elected back in 1932 and was more concerned than FDR was about the power of Marxism among working classes in Europe, and increasing Asia and Latin America.

Key questions are:
  • Where would the Frankfurt School have gone if the US did not accept them?
  • What would they have done in their alternate place of exile?
  • Might the School not have returned to Europe if their alternate exile was more distant?
I imagine they'd go to Britain, or get sent to Auschwitz. And our lives would probably be no different.
 
The Frankfurt School is often credited with instigating major social changes in the West – and increasingly the globe – through its so-called “cultural Marxism” that is viewed as the foundation for disciplines like gay studies and women’s studies.

As I have said before, "cultural Marxism" is about as meaningful as "cultural Bolshevism" and is used by roughly the same people... Anyway, all sorts of people were affiliated with the Institute for Social Research at Frankfurt. Some, like Borkenau and Wittfogel were ex-KPD members who became very anti-Communist. Even people considered more "typical" of the "Frankfurt School" often vehemently disagreed with each other. "Adorno and Marcuse were bitterly divided about the emerging student movements in the late 1960s.... In Germany, Adorno and Habermas were highly critical of the student movements, alleging that they would easily collapse into a kind of left fascism." http://www.critical-theory.com/letters-adorno-marcuse-discuss-60s-student-activism/

In any event,

(1) It shouldn't be so surprising that they got into the US. The 1924 immigration quotas--which limited immigration based on the national-origins statistics of the US in 1890--greatly limited immigration from eastern Europe, much more than from Germany, since there were already plenty of Germans in the US by 1890. (And that is why the 1924 law contributed to the Holocaust, a majority of whose victims were east European, not German, Jews.) As for political restrictions, "anarchists" had long been excluded, but of course nobody associated with the School was an anarchist; as for Communism, some had never been members of the Communist party, others had quit it by the time they emigrated. (And in any event the US Supreme Court was to decide in 1943 that even Communists could be naturalized! https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/320/118/case.html)

(2) As to where they would have gone had US laws been more restrictive, some might have been trapped in France when it fell, but others could find refuge in Great Britain. Adorno in fact spent four years at Oxford before coming to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_W._Adorno Horkheimer briefly lived in Switzerland before coming to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Horkheimer as did Erich Fromm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Fromm
 
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The Frankfurt School is often credited with instigating major social changes in the West – and increasingly the globe – through its so-called “cultural Marxism” that is viewed as the foundation for disciplines like gay studies and women’s studies.

However, given the vehement refusal of the rest of the world to provide exile for Jewish victims of Nazism, and the fact that the Frankfurt School’s leading intellectuals were all Jewish, it has interested me to imagine an alternate history whereby the US does not or is not permitted to accept the Frankfurt School as Columbia University was to do in 1936.

I have imagined this as not implausible if a different Democrat – a Catholic or Southerner – had been elected back in 1932 and was more concerned than FDR was about the power of Marxism among working classes in Europe, and increasing Asia and Latin America.

Key questions are:
  • Where would the Frankfurt School have gone if the US did not accept them?
  • What would they have done in their alternate place of exile?
  • Might the School not have returned to Europe if their alternate exile was more distant?

I wish they stayed in Germany and not spread that trite over here. We would be better off
 
I wish they stayed in Germany and not spread that trite over here. We would be better off

(1) I think you mean "tripe."

(2) Just what is it that you wish they "not spread" anyway? As I already noted, there was no unified body of doctrine to which everyone associated with the Frankfurt School subscribed.

(3) In general it is considered poor form here to wish people to have perished in the Holocaust--which is what staying in Germany would mean.

(I dislike a lot of people associated with the School, or at least some of their ideas. For example, I don't like Adorno's worship of the twelve-tone system and hatred of Stravinsky and especially his obsessive hatred of jazz. But I wouldn't wish for his death on that account.)
 
(1) I think you mean "tripe."

(2) Just what is it that you wish they "not spread" anyway? As I already noted, there was no unified body of doctrine to which everyone associated with the Frankfurt School subscribed.

(3) In general it is considered poor form here to wish people to have perished in the Holocaust--which is what staying in Germany would mean.

(I dislike a lot of people associated with the School, or at least some of their ideas. For example, I don't like Adorno's worship of the twelve-tone system and hatred of Stravinsky and especially his obsessive hatred of jazz. But I wouldn't wish for his death on that account.)

1. You are correct, thank you.

2. Members of the Frankfurt School went on to advocate for the destruction of the Nuclear Family, the reality that sexes have differences, oversexualization(I'm no prude, I'm not talking about porn, legal prostitution or having more than 1 partner in your life) of society, rampant identity politics which led to a backlash from Whites to play identity politics(which were all worse for), popularizing existential nihilism and excessive hedonism, the promotion of Marxist ideas which lead to authoritarian busy bodies who want to restrict rights, and a complete disrespect of tradition, even if the tradition has validity to it. This is all apart of "Critical Theory".

Georg Lukacs is one of these members, this is something he wrote. In it he says, “There are two aspects of the utopian counterpart to this ontology. The first is seen in God’s annihilation of empirical reality in the Apocalypse, which can on occasion be absent (as with Tolstoy) without materially affecting the situation. The second lies in the utopian view of man as a ‘saint’ who can achieve an inner mastery over the external reality that cannot be eliminated.”

Then you have Frederich Engels, "All the...large and small nationalities are destined to perish...in the revolutionary world storm... (A general war will) wipe out all...nations, down to their very names. The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only reactionary classes...but...reactionary peoples." ("The Magyar Struggle," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, Jan. 13, 1849).

I could go into more detail but I don't wish to turn this into a massive political debate where it has no place being. Plus I don't want argue with you as that might to us being on bad terms, I see no reason to do that.

3. I'm not saying they should've died. I do believe, however, that we as a society are worse off for them coming to the West. If I have to choose between letting a group of people who would end up harming society and contributing to some of the problems today coming to America or risk them dying, it's a pretty easy choice. I'd rather no one get killed but we don't live in a perfect world.


Get fucked you Austrian loser
Rock Paper Scissors.jpg
 
Neither Lukacs nor Engels was a member of the Frankfurt School. In the case of Engels, that is obvious enough, since he died decades before it was formed. (Reverence for Engels was characteristic of "orthodox Marxist-Leninists" not of the Frankfurt School. According to one source, Adorno even called Engels "the first vulgar Marxist." https://books.google.com/books?id=ih_muDscIY8C&pg=PA198) As for Lukacs, Adorno called Lukacs' book *The Destruction of Reason* "the destruction of Lukacs' reason." https://books.google.com/books?id=MCBIAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA206 Lukacs' friend Ernst Bloch had a very harsh assessment of the Frankfurt School:

"I would call the Institute of Social Research [Institut für Sozialforschung] of the Frankfurt School the Institute of Social Falsification [Institut für Sozialfälschung]. I have never accepted their pessimism. They are neither Marxists nor revolutionaries. What they offer is only a pessimistic theory of society. At one time, I had some rapport with Adorno although we never agreed on the concept of utopia. As far as Horkheimer is concerned, he became a reactionary..." https://books.google.com/books?id=GSEuDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT182

Basically, you are complaining about social movements which arose decades after the Frankfurt School and had little or nothing to do with it (except perhaps for some influence by late Marcuse on the New Left--and as I noted, Adorno and Horkheimer were very hostile to Marcuse on that matter). Many members of the Frankfurt School actually had surprisingly "reactionary" views on feminism. "In contrast with Marx and Engels, Horkheimer, Adorno, and even Marcuse express negative reservations about women going out to work because of the harmful psychological effects that would inevitably result to the sons." https://books.google.com/books?id=ZW0ERm3jlGYC&pg=PA62 So far as gays are concerned, Adorno actually wrote that homosexuality and totalitarianism belong together." https://books.google.com/books?id=i5OfesofLXcC&pg=PA42

I do not particularly care for most of the theories of most of the people associated with the Frankfurt School, but that has nothing to do with the idiocy of the right-wing lumping them together as "cultural Marxism" and blaming them for every social development they dislike.
 
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Kick
Neither Lukacs nor Engels was a member of the Frankfurt School. In the case of Engels, that is obvious enough, since he died decades before it was formed. (Reverence for Engels was characteristic of "orthodox Marxist-Leninists" not of the Frankfurt School. According to one source, Adorno even called Engels "the first vulgar Marxist." https://books.google.com/books?id=ih_muDscIY8C&pg=PA198) As for Lukacs, Adorno called Lukacs' book *The Destruction of Reason* "the destruction of Lukacs' reason." https://books.google.com/books?id=MCBIAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA206 Lukacs' friend Ernst Bloch had a very harsh assessment of the Frankfurt School:

"I would call the Institute of Social Research [Institut für Sozialforschung] of the Frankfurt School the Institute of Social Falsification [Institut für Sozialfälschung]. I have never accepted their pessimism. They are neither Marxists nor revolutionaries. What they offer is only a pessimistic theory of society. At one time, I had some rapport with Adorno although we never agreed on the concept of utopia. As far as Horkheimer is concerned, he became a reactionary..." https://books.google.com/books?id=GSEuDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT182

Basically, you are complaining about social movements which arose decades after the Frankfurt School and had little or nothing to do with it (except perhaps for some influence by late Marcuse on the New Left--and as I noted, Adorno and Horkheimer were very hostile to Marcuse on that matter). Many members of the Frankfurt School actually had surprisingly "reactionary" views on feminism. "In contrast with Marx and Engels, Horkheimer, Adorno, and even Marcuse express negative reservations about women going out to work because of the harmful psychological effects that would inevitably result to the sons." https://books.google.com/books?id=ZW0ERm3jlGYC&pg=PA62 So far as gays are concerned, Adorno actually wrote that homosexuality and totalitarianism belong together." https://books.google.com/books?id=i5OfesofLXcC&pg=PA42

I do not particularly care for most of the theories of most of the people associated with the Frankfurt School, but that has nothing to do with the idiocy of the right-wing lumping them together as "cultural Marxism" and blaming them for every social development they dislike.


"The term "Frankfurt School" arose informally to describe the thinkers affiliated or merely associated with the Frankfurt Institute for Social Research; it is not the title of any specific position or institution per se, and few of these theorists used the term themselves. The Institute for Social Research (Institut für Sozialforschung) was founded in 1923 by Carl Grünberg, a Marxist legal and political professor at the University of Vienna,[10] as an adjunct of the University of Frankfurt; it was the first Marxist-oriented research center affiliated with a major German university.[4] However, the school can trace its earliest roots back to Felix Weil, who used money from his father's grain business to finance the Institut.

Weil (1898–1975), a young Marxist, had written his doctoral thesis (published by Karl Korsch) on the practical problems of implementing socialism. With the hope of bringing different trends of Marxism together, Weil organized a week-long symposium (the Erste Marxistische Arbeitswoche) in 1922 in Ilmenau, Thuringia, a meeting attended by Georg Lukács, Karl Korsch, Karl August Wittfogel, Friedrich Pollock and others. The event was so successful that Weil set about erecting a building and funding salaries for a permanent institute. Weil negotiated with the Ministry of Education that the Director of the Institute would be a full professor from the state system, so that the Institut would have the status of a University institution.[11]

Georg Lukács and Karl Korsch both attended the Arbeitswoche, which had included a study of Korsch's Marxism and Philosophy—but both were too committed to political activity and Party membership to join the Institut, though Korsch participated in publishing ventures for a number of years. The way Lukács was obliged to repudiate his History and Class Consciousness, published in 1923 and probably a major inspiration for the work of the Frankfurt School, indicated that independence from the Communist Party was necessary for genuine theoretical work.[11]"

My claim that Engels was a member is indeed false. But as for Lukács, while he may not have been a member of the Institut, to split hairs over his involvement seems disingenuous. "Lukács was obliged to repudiate his History and Class Consciousness, published in 1923 and probably a major inspiration for the work of the Frankfurt School", this shows that Lukács had definitely influenced the Frankfurt School, and like it says, it was not a strictly defined thing, therefore trying to exclude him without mentioning his influence is strange. And Lukács was the man who taught extreme sexual promiscuity and rebellious attitudes to anything their elders thought to young teenagers as he believed Christianity and traditional views on sex and the sexes must be destroyed, showing the inherent corrosive nature of Marxism. The difference is that Classical Marxism achieved power through force and used their power to openly destroy traditional society, Stalin fighting the church and wiping out the Kulaks along with Mao's Cultural Revolution are some examples. Cultural Marxism, which is not the Frankfurt School, the School is a apart of Cultural Marxism, is subversive. Using media and business connections to implant the seeds needed to corrode the basis of society. Eventually, the Soviets picked up on how useful this was(or rather is) and started funding their own subversive efforts to undermine the West, as Soviet Defector Yuri Bezmenov states


Faggot.jpg


Subvert.jpg


Death of society.png
 
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"The term "Frankfurt School" arose informally to describe the thinkers affiliated or merely associated with the Frankfurt Institute for Social Research; it is not the title of any specific position or institution per se, and few of these theorists used the term themselves. The Institute for Social Research (Institut für Sozialforschung) was founded in 1923 by Carl Grünberg, a Marxist legal and political professor at the University of Vienna,[10] as an adjunct of the University of Frankfurt; it was the first Marxist-oriented research center affiliated with a major German university.[4] However, the school can trace its earliest roots back to Felix Weil, who used money from his father's grain business to finance the Institut.

Weil (1898–1975), a young Marxist, had written his doctoral thesis (published by Karl Korsch) on the practical problems of implementing socialism. With the hope of bringing different trends of Marxism together, Weil organized a week-long symposium (the Erste Marxistische Arbeitswoche) in 1922 in Ilmenau, Thuringia, a meeting attended by Georg Lukács, Karl Korsch, Karl August Wittfogel, Friedrich Pollock and others. The event was so successful that Weil set about erecting a building and funding salaries for a permanent institute. Weil negotiated with the Ministry of Education that the Director of the Institute would be a full professor from the state system, so that the Institut would have the status of a University institution.[11]

Georg Lukács and Karl Korsch both attended the Arbeitswoche, which had included a study of Korsch's Marxism and Philosophy—but both were too committed to political activity and Party membership to join the Institut, though Korsch participated in publishing ventures for a number of years. The way Lukács was obliged to repudiate his History and Class Consciousness, published in 1923 and probably a major inspiration for the work of the Frankfurt School, indicated that independence from the Communist Party was necessary for genuine theoretical work.[11]"

My claim that Engels was a member is indeed false. But as for Lukács, while he may not have been a member of the Institut, to split hairs over his involvement seems disingenuous. "Lukács was obliged to repudiate his History and Class Consciousness, published in 1923 and probably a major inspiration for the work of the Frankfurt School", this shows that Lukács had definitely influenced the Frankfurt School, and like it says, it was not a strictly defined thing, therefore trying to exclude him without mentioning his influence is strange. And Lukács was the man who taught extreme sexual promiscuity and rebellious attitudes to anything their elders thought to young teenagers as he believed Christianity and traditional views on sex and the sexes must be destroyed, showing the inherent corrosive nature of Marxism. The difference is that Classical Marxism achieved power through force and used their power to openly destroy traditional society, Stalin fighting the church and wiping out the Kulaks along with Mao's Cultural Revolution are some examples. Cultural Marxism, which is not the Frankfurt School, the School is a apart of Cultural Marxism, is subversive. Using media and business connections to implant the seeds needed to corrode the basis of society. Eventually, the Soviets picked up on how useful this was(or rather is) and started funding their own subversive efforts to undermine the West, as Soviet Defector Yuri Bezmenov states


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Before you get banned or kicked, would you please explain what's so wrong with the first two images at the very bottom?
 
Before you get banned or kicked, would you please explain what's so wrong with the first two images at the very bottom?

Sexualization of children and the girls have things like "Slut" written on them. Can you explain why that isn't weird? They're literally calling themselves sluts, a derogatory term. It's one thing to have multiple partners, another thing to call yourself a slut. And I'm not one of those, "Women shouldn't vote, Blacks are subhumans, and transgenders need to murdered", I just think people should view themselves with a level of public decency. I don't support Hitler or buy into the "Muh Jews did Everything" meme. Also the third one is people rioting violently which is obviously wrong.
 

CannedTech

Banned
Sexualization of children and the girls have things like "Slut" written on them. Can you explain why that isn't weird? They're literally calling themselves sluts, a derogatory term. It's one thing to have multiple partners, another thing to call yourself a slut. And I'm not one of those, "Women shouldn't vote, Blacks are subhumans, and transgenders need to murdered", I just think people should view themselves with a level of public decency. I don't support Hitler or buy into the "Muh Jews did Everything" meme. Also the third one is people rioting violently which is obviously wrong.

You say that, yet traditional views on gender being relaxed is also treated as a bad thing here...
 
Interesting how some see cultural Marxism as an insidious, slow moving Russian conspiracy to undermine the West, but often consider well documented, actual, trackable, fast moving Russian efforts to do via funding the alt right to be “fake news” at best, and allies at worth.

But I digress. Anyways, you were saying about wishing the Frankfurt School stayed in Nazi Germany, and hopefully, did not get killed, but if they did, so be it?
 

I mean things like mothers being maternal being viewed as patriarchal and the painfully forcing of this strange agenderism, where men and women are exactly the same, on average they are not. They are both equally important and should be cherished for what they do, and they both deserve rights as we are all people. Voting, expression, movement, and getting to choose who you want are all things men and women deserve to have. Like I said, I'm not some , "Things were better when they couldn't vote!", I don't believe that a wife and a daughter are the father's property and need their expressed permission to leave the house.

These relaxations on these roles haven't made women happier in America as this study shows. What we need to do is to establish that men and women are not the same, they are different, but they are equal. Both important. What we have instead is people saying that fatherhood is evil and being a mother is bad. I'm not saying this the overwhelming majority, it's not, but to ignore it is foolish.

anti-fathers day.jpg


toxic-min.png
 
Sexualization of children and the girls have things like "Slut" written on them. Can you explain why that isn't weird? They're literally calling themselves sluts, a derogatory term. It's one thing to have multiple partners, another thing to call yourself a slut. And I'm not one of those, "Women shouldn't vote, Blacks are subhumans, and transgenders need to murdered", I just think people should view themselves with a level of public decency. I don't support Hitler or buy into the "Muh Jews did Everything" meme. Also the third one is people rioting violently which is obviously wrong.
How is the kid in the middle being sexualized? As for the slut thing, the women are clearly trying to send a message against the double standard that is slut shaming.
 
Interesting how some see cultural Marxism as an insidious, slow moving Russian conspiracy to undermine the West, but often consider well documented, actual, trackable, fast moving Russian efforts to do via funding the alt right to be “fake news” at best, and allies at worth.

Did you just not see this?

What evidence do you have? i'm interested in having a discussion.

But I digress. Anyways, you were saying about wishing the Frankfurt School stayed in Nazi Germany, and hopefully, did not get killed, but if they did, so be it?

Yes. If I had the power to manipulate people I would simply prevent Hitler, Stalin, the Japanese Military Junta, Mao Zedong, Leon Trotsky, and a bajillion other people from ever entering politics
 
No doubt people in the Frankfurt School had more respect for the Lukacs of *History and Class Consciousness* than for the later Lukacs who groveled before Stalinism. But *History and Class Consciousness* has nothing to do with sexual libertinism or anything else the far right attributes to "cultural Marxism." Lukacs was actually quite old-fashioned in his cultural tastes; he disliked expressionism, the avant-garde in general--indeed, anything more up-to-date than Thomas Mann.

By the way, "Lord Vespasian"'s attached Stalin quote is of course a fake. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-healthy-body/

But there is really no point in arguing with this nonsense.
 
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