Your Ideal European Borders?

[cmakk1012]

Inspired by the Polish and Serbian ideal borders threads-so essentially your ideal borders for nation states of Europe whether they ever existed IOTL or not-but with a bunch of distinctions. I feel like this idea has been done before but using Search didn't get me anywhere.

1. Since ethnic compositions of areas changed over time, I'm going to set this at the borders as they should have been in 1900.

2. NO ETHNIC CLEANSING unless it is a direct reversal of ethnic cleansing that had occurred within let's say fifty years. Population exchanges to tidy up borders--even though in reality these would be terrible--are permitted.

3. To explain the "whether they existed" bit--if you feel Catalunya or Brittany or the Duchy of Grand Fenwick should have been independent, then by all means throw em in!

4. You don't have to be super specific--but you can be if you want.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

Would the entirety of the European Continent being united in a single empire be acceptable?

 

[cmakk1012]

The best solution really

But in 1900, the time of stupid nationalism, it seems...unlikely

 

[Deleted member 97083]

Square borders, square borders everywhere. And panhandles and exclaves.

 

[cmakk1012]

Come on, that would only happen if someone lacking basic knowledge of the peoples and systems of the area

glances nervously at Africa

 

[The Undead Martyr]

Irrelevant so long as they accept me as their liege.

 

[Emperor Joker]

Square borders, square borders everywhere. And panhandles and exclaves.

Panhandles and exclaves are what makes this question so damn difficult. Just look at this ethnographic map of Austria-Hungary:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg

I mean, shit, how the hell do you divide that?

 

[Deleted member 97083]

Come on, that would only happen if someone lacking basic knowledge of the peoples and systems of the area

glances nervously at Africa

Beautiful borders to be incorporated in ideal Europe:

• Kaliningrad with a panhandle connecting it to Estonia
• The pre-1939 Soviet border that was almost a straight line but not quite
• The modern Oder-Neisse border of Germany, except with a Polish exclave in West (not East) Berlin.
• Independent Ruhr with a panhandle to Flevoland
• To solve the Hungarian-Romanian conflict, just cut Transylvania diagonally on a northeast-southwest parallel
• Kazakh border has a panhandle that stretches to Slovakia
• 3 independent countries in the Sudetenland
• Ottoman Empire split into a communist and capitalist half
• "Alternate Israel" located in Belarus: literally a perfect circle extending a radius 200 km around Minsk
• Atlantic Wall is occupied by Britain, restricting France from having a coast

 

[Kome]

Beautiful borders to be incorporated in ideal Europe:

• Kaliningrad with a panhandle connecting it to Estonia
• The pre-1939 Soviet border that was almost a straight line but not quite
• The modern Oder-Neisse border of Germany, except with a Polish exclave in West (not East) Berlin.
• Independent Ruhr with a panhandle to Flevoland
• To solve the Hungarian-Romanian conflict, just cut Transylvania diagonally on a northeast-southwest parallel
• Kazakh border has a panhandle that stretches to Slovakia
• 3 independent countries in the Sudetenland
• Ottoman Empire split into a communist and capitalist half
• "Alternate Israel" located in Belarus: literally a perfect circle extending a radius 200 km around Minsk
• Atlantic Wall is occupied by Britain, restricting France from having a coast

Swiss border corridor stretching from the Alps to the North Sea to prevent France and Germany from touching.

 

[Deleted member 97083]

Swiss border line stretching from the Alps to the North Sea to prevent France and Germany from touching.

In fact, to assure neutrality and peace, the Swiss have a panhandle across all international borders.

 

[Arkenfolm]

It's a very broad question, isn't it?

European borders in 1900 were pretty much ideal. But I'd find a way to make the Brest-Litevsk German borders in the east, as well as some border corrections for Germany in the west (Briey-Longwy and Belfort). Add independent Finland with all Karelia and Kola too. All small states must be eliminated, so Monaco goes to France, Liechtenstein to Austria, Andorra to Spain, Luxembourg to Germany. Malta goes to Italy, Gibraltar to Spain, and Cyprus goes to the Ottomans. Ireland gets indepedent with all 32 Counties.

This should make Europe nice, peaceful, and stable for a happy world where no one can start great wars that kill millions and radical movements don't gain the power to kill additional millions, and help make it so we all live on the Moon by 2017 just like people thought we would in 1900. Right? Err...right? That's how humans work, isn't it?

Come on, that would only happen if someone lacking basic knowledge of the peoples and systems of the area

glances nervously at Africa

Africa actually has very nice borders outside of the Congo pedicle and Ethiopia-Somalia. If nobody lived there before the modern borders were drawn, it would be a pretty nice study on how to divide up a continent.

 

[cmakk1012]

Panhandles and exclaves are what makes this question so damn difficult. Just look at this ethnographic map of Austria-Hungary:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg

I mean, shit, how the hell do you divide that?

This is where the limited population movements come in or else you have to bring back HRE microstates. Take the German exclaves on the map; one solution might be to consolidate them into two or three larger exclaves and then pronounce them independent "Saxon" states. Alternately, incorporate them into the nation state of the dominant culture group around them but specifically delineate the exact German regions as "autonomous communities."

Beautiful borders to be incorporated in ideal Europe:

• Kaliningrad with a panhandle connecting it to Estonia
• The pre-1939 Soviet border that was almost a straight line but not quite
• The modern Oder-Neisse border of Germany, except with a Polish exclave in West (not East) Berlin.
• Independent Ruhr with a panhandle to Flevoland
• To solve the Hungarian-Romanian conflict, just cut Transylvania diagonally on a northeast-southwest parallel
• Kazakh border has a panhandle that stretches to Slovakia
• 3 independent countries in the Sudetenland
• Ottoman Empire split into a communist and capitalist half
• "Alternate Israel" located in Belarus: literally a perfect circle extending a radius 200 km around Minsk
• Atlantic Wall is occupied by Britain, restricting France from having a coast

Pretty good, but I prefer solving Transylvania by giving all of the Szekely Land to Hungary and keeping a one-mile wide line straight from it to Hungary proper as to provide a land bridge. As the crow flies, of course

 

[Deleted member 97083]

Pretty good, but I prefer solving Transylvania by giving all of the Szekely Land to Hungary and keeping a one-mile wide line straight from it to Hungary proper as to provide a land bridge. As the crow flies, of course

On a more serious note, a possible solution for the conflict over Transylvania, could be to create a Bosnia-Herzegovina like entity, but instead of a Serbian federation and a Croatian+Bosniak federation, there is instead a Romanian federation and a Hungarian+German federation.

 

[cmakk1012]

That is an actual good solution. Honestly federations are a way to go for most of Austria-Hungary and the Balkans...

 

[123456789blaaa]

<snip>
Africa actually has very nice borders outside of the Congo pedicle and Ethiopia-Somalia. If nobody lived there before the modern borders were drawn, it would be a pretty nice study on how to divide up a continent.

Just checking: this is sarcasm right?

 

[Deleted member 97083]

That is an actual good solution. Honestly federations are a way to go for most of Austria-Hungary and the Balkans...

Galicia would be a cool and functional country too.

 

[B-29_Bomber]

I would give the Rhineland and A-L to Luxembourg and rename the country to Lotharingia.

Because fuck Germany and France.

Then create an Intermarium between Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, and Ukraine. An independent East Prussia would be economically tied to it. Poland's western borders are as they were in 1939. Romania would also be aligned with the Intermarium.

Greece would get all of Thrace, favorable border adjustments with her Balkan neighbors and control Western Anatolia. There'll be a population transfer.

 

[123456789blaaa]

That is an actual good solution. Honestly federations are a way to go for most of Austria-Hungary and the Balkans...

Austra-Hungary yes but I think a federation of the 19th/20th c Christian Balkan ethnostates is going to encounter severe problems. I think a unitary Ottoman or Byzantine state would work a lot better. The Balkans and Anatolia centered on Istanbul form a natural economic unit.

 

[AceofDens]

In fact, to assure neutrality and peace, the Swiss have a panhandle across all international borders.

"Top 10 Pranks That Went Way Too Far"

 

[cmakk1012]

Austra-Hungary yes but I think a federation of the 19th/20th c Christian Balkan ethnostates is going to encounter severe problems. I think a unitary Ottoman or Byzantine state would work a lot better. The Balkans and Anatolia centered on Istanbul form a natural economic unit.

On the other hand, the Serbs and Romanians are not going to happily play second fiddle to the overlords hundreds of miles away...

"Top 10 Pranks That Went Way Too Far"

The borders would resemble a giant web.

Spider-Swiss, Spider-Swiss, does whatever a Spider-Swiss does