Worldwar: Filling the Gaps?

[The Red]

I just have five words as a bit of foreshadowing and difference from canon. The Coalition of Democratic States.

The Soviets would get grumpy if they weren't included (and they and the States were pretty much as close as you could come to BFF by Aftershocks, even if just through self interest) and if they were then it would be easy for the Race and the Nazis to make a mockery out of it. I really don't see the need to go against the books anyways, we could make an interesting scenario without having to change any established canon.

 

[Jcw3]

The Soviets would get grumpy if they weren't included (and they and the States were pretty much as close as you could come to BFF by Aftershocks, even if just through self interest) and if they were then it would be easy for the Race and the Nazis to make a mockery out of it. I really don't see the need to go against the books anyways, we could make an interesting scenario without having to change any established canon.

Anything to avoid Nazi Britain. But you have a point.

 

[The Red]

Anything to avoid Nazi Britain. But you have a point.

I don't want to spoil anything for you but Britain never went Nazi, there was a fear that it would go in that direction, and they offered the Reich diplomatic support in the Race-German War but that was the highest ebb. With the collapse of Nazi Germany its likely Britain went back to a close relationship with either the States or the Soviets.

 

[Jcw3]

I don't want to spoil anything for you but Britain never went Nazi, there was a fear that it would go in that direction, and they offered the Reich diplomatic support in the Race-German War but that was the highest ebb. With the collapse of Nazi Germany its likely Britain went back to a close relationship with either the States or the Soviets.

I still don't get Turtledove's hate for Britain. I only read Settling Accounts and Worldwar and in both books they don't seem to get a lot of love.

Oh, and Commie Britain is so much better.

 

[The Red]

I still don't get Turtledove's hate for Britain. I only read Settling Accounts and Worldwar and in both books they don't seem to get a lot of love.

Well OTL is something of a British wank to be fair, from my won rough analysis of his work it seems that the Russians/Soviets, Germans, and Japanese usually get a better deal whilst the Americans and the British decline a bit.

But yes, the Reich collapses, the British economy goes with it, leading to a glorious revolution installing Premier Driberg.

 

[trekchu]

I still don't get Turtledove's hate for Britain. I only read Settling Accounts and Worldwar and in both books they don't seem to get a lot of love.

Which is why I can't read anything he's written anymore. It got so bad during Worldwar that I never really finished the series.

 

[Jcw3]

To anyone curious, I was envisioning the CDS created after the Peace of Cairo, and eventually being treated as a single nation by 2000 or so. It would involve the UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand, and Ireland. Maybe Switzerland/Caribbean nations, as well, but those will probably be annexed by America and Germany.

 

[Trotsky]

HT doesn't have a hatred of the British.

Or if he does, he also hates Southerners, blonde people, Nazis, the United States of America, and Jens Larssen in equal measures.

 

[Petike]

BTW, Jcw, maybe you could PM Craigo and ask him for advice on the project.

 

[TR1]

(i.e., acknowledging the existence of South America)

He did acknowledge it. Khomeini was exiled to an unknown location in South America after the Race caught him in 1965. There was an additional uprising in Argentina.

 

[TR1]

Britain being Germany's bitch

The USA is on the other side of the Atlantic, and Europe lies between the UK and the USSR. The GGR, however is just across the English Channel. The UK's options were limited by geography to say the least.

 

[Jcw3]

He did acknowledge it. Khomeini was exiled to an unknown location in South America after the Race caught him in 1965. There was an additional uprising in Argentina.

He had no viewpoint characters from there, and that's essentially a couple of cameos for an entire continent.

The UK's navy and the US' navy still could have had help from each other, given that they were the two strongest in 1942(besides maybe Japan).

 

[Trotsky]

He had no viewpoint characters from there, and that's essentially a couple of cameos for an entire continent.

So? He had no POVs from Africa and Oceania, either. And just one from Asia, despite that place being home to almost the majority of the human population. What the fuck is so special about South America, then?

The UK's navy and the US' navy still could have had help from each other, given that they were the two strongest in 1942(besides maybe Japan).

Assuming the UK would have much of a navy after the end of empire, which would be a rather dumb thing to assume but still, why would that matter? Both the United Kingdom and the United States would be needing massive rebuilding efforts at home to focus on, never mind each other. And the Americans, which until about less than two years prior have never shown any interest in maintaining strong ties in Europe and even then that is questionable, obviously have more important things to worry about than the well-being of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or do you disagree?

 

[Jcw3]

So? He had no POVs from Africa and Oceania, either. And just one from Asia, despite that place being home to almost the majority of the human population. What the fuck is so special about South America, then?

Jane Archibald was from Australia, and played a prominent secondary role. Nejas and Skoob were technically from Africa, and all told us enough about what happened. We know almost nothing about what happened in South America. Nieh Ho'Ting, Liu Han, technically Kassquit, all from Asia.

EDIT: What I mean by POV's wasn't just POV's, but important characters. I also mean that he has told us(so far in the original tetralogy/Second Contact) almost nothing about what happened in South America. Australia was taken down by two nukes and concentrated forces in the Outback. Latin America in its entirety is something we weren't even told about, besides off hand mentions of Argentinians and Brazil succumbing to the Race as a puppet state.

 

[JSmith]

Would anyone be interested in working with me on a Worldwar filling the gaps project, ala TL-191(Forgot the author's name for TL-191 FTG, think it's David Bar Elias?)?

Presidents/Vice Presidents/Secretaries of State for America, PM's for the UK, etc.?

Maybe giving a better depiction of world affairs(i.e., acknowledging the existence of South America)and showing a detailed look at the world that follows, rather than the primary look at America, China, Germany, Poland, the UK, and the USSR that the books chose?

This is a suggestion, I'm testing the waters for interest in this kind of idea. If everyone's open to the idea and would enjoy reading it, I might even do a continuation.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section.

Great idea. this is very much needed -especially post 1960's.

 

[TR1]

Jane Archibald was from Australia, and played a prominent secondary role. Nejas and Skoob were technically from Africa, and all told us enough about what happened. We know almost nothing about what happened in South America. Nieh Ho'Ting, Liu Han, technically Kassquit, all from Asia.

EDIT: What I mean by POV's wasn't just POV's, but important characters. I also mean that he has told us(so far in the original tetralogy/Second Contact) almost nothing about what happened in South America. Australia was taken down by two nukes and concentrated forces in the Outback. Latin America in its entirety is something we weren't even told about, besides off hand mentions of Argentinians and Brazil succumbing to the Race as a puppet state.

South America was occupied in its entirety. Based on everything else we heard, it doesn't sound as if South America was any better or any worse off than other Race holdings on Earth. Mexico (since you expanded to Latin America) was home to an important military base (being on the border with the US, that makes sense) and saw a great deal of ginger traffic. Argentina was restive in the 1960s. Really, that is quite similar to what we heard about most of Africa, Asia, and Australia.

 

[Jcw3]

South America was occupied in its entirety. Based on everything else we heard, it doesn't sound as if South America was any better or any worse off than other Race holdings on Earth. Mexico (since you expanded to Latin America) was home to an important military base (being on the border with the US, that makes sense) and saw a great deal of ginger traffic. Argentina was restive in the 1960s. Really, that is quite similar to what we heard about most of Africa, Asia, and Australia.

Sorry, but Australia, we had an important supporting character in Jane, Sydney/Melbourne destroyed by nukes, and is an important Race colony. Asia had minimal focus, and only on China, but still some focus. Africa had two landcruiser commanders and gunners from it, but South America has no characters. I realize I'm essentially a broken record- but, just expect a few flashback sections with what happened to Latin America.

 

[Jcw3]

Rough draft of Presidents, VP's and Secretaries of State from 1932 to 2020. Bit of canon editing with Hull's Presidency. If you look closely, you can see hints of American expansionism.

POTUS 1932-2020
1932-1944 Franklin D. Roosevelt/Henry A. Wallace/Cordell Hull
1944-1948 Cordell Hull/Carter Glass/George Marshall(Emergency Positions)
1948-1956 Harry S. Truman/Henry A. Wallace/Dwight Eisenhower
1956-1960 Dwight Eisenhower/Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr./Omar Bradley
1960-1965 Earl Warren/Harold Stassen/Omar Bradley
1965-1968 Harold Stassen/Omar Bradley/Leslie Groves
1968-1976 Hubert H. Humphrey/Lyndon B. Johnson/Otto Chase
1976-1980 Otto Chase/Jesse M. Unruh/Francois Duvalier
1980-1984 Gerald Ford/Kevin Donlan/Jonathan Gibbs
1984-1992 Gabriel Cornalis/Jimmy Mondal/Everett Stone
1992-2000 Henry Clinton/Timothy Smith/Lucille Friedman
2000-2004 Akamai Kealoha/Jon Liebowitz/Steve C. Olbert
2004-2012 Antonio Adams/Dave Montgomery/Oliver Thomson
2012-2020 Joyce Peterman/Jeremy Parker/Adlai Stevenson III

 

[The Red]

Remember that Wallace died when the Race nuked Seattle, shortly before Roosevelt. I'd also find it hard to see Harry Truman becoming the Democratic nominee without the shenanigans of OTL 1944, and it almost didn't happen then.

 

[Jcw3]

Remember that Wallace died when the Race nuked Seattle, shortly before Roosevelt. I'd also find it hard to see Harry Truman becoming the Democratic nominee without the shenanigans of OTL 1944, and it almost didn't happen then.

Oh, wow. I forgot about that. I don't know enough about old politics, I guess. How's this? Should I just give Hull a second term?
POTUS 1932-2020
1932-1944 Franklin D. Roosevelt/Henry A. Wallace/Cordell Hull
1944-1948 Cordell Hull/Carter Glass/George Marshall(Emergency Positions)
1948-1956 George Marshall/Harry F. Byrd/Dwight Eisenhower
1956-1960 Dwight Eisenhower/Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr./Omar Bradley
1960-1965 Earl Warren/Harold Stassen/Omar Bradley
1965-1968 Harold Stassen/Omar Bradley/Leslie Groves
1968-1976 Hubert H. Humphrey/Lyndon B. Johnson/Otto Chase
1976-1980 Otto Chase/Jesse M. Unruh/Francois Duvalier
1980-1984 Gerald Ford/Kevin Donlan/Jonathan Gibbs
1984-1992 Gabriel Cornalis/Jimmy Mondal/Everett Stone
1992-2000 Henry Clinton/Timothy Smith/Lucille Friedman
2000-2004 Akamai Kealoha/Jon Liebowitz/Steve C. Olbert
2004-2012 Antonio Adams/Dave Montgomery/Oliver Thomson
2012-2020 Joyce Peterman/Jeremy Parker/Adlai Stevenson III