[Edit to clarify: ITTL, the functional destruction of Greece and Rome prevents Western Civilization from ever appearing. Persia and Carthage grow and collapse, the unification of China is disrupted, the history of India is transformed and something very important happens in West Africa; and things keep changing]
Hey, everyone! First time poster here. I hail from the Speculative Evolution forum, where I'm known as Dromaeosaurus.
A while ago, I happened to read The Years of Rice and Salt, an AH novel in which a magnified Black Plague completely depopulates Europe, leading to a global joint hegemony of Islamic and Chinese culture in the following centuries. So I've been thinking about an ATL with no Western Civilization - by which I mean no latin script, no Romance/Germanic/Slavic languages, no Christianity, no European nation states, no classical or classical-derived art, and such things. Unlike Years, which destroyed the West before it could spread worldwide, I chose to have it nipped in the bud.
« The King of Kings, Darius I, had sworn vengeance upon Athens for supporting the rebels in Ionia, years before. He sent his army sailing for Attica in the summer of 490 BCE, landing in the bay of Marathon. In that parched plain, the Persian cavalry would easily crush their enemies. In another world, maybe, general Miltiades could have devised a plan to deny the enemy their greatest strength; but not in this one.
A creeping disease, a punishment by Apollo for some unknown transgression, had already taken away the wise general, and worn out many of the Greek soldiers. The shields and the spears of the hoplites were powerful; the arms holding them less so. Messengers were sent to Sparta, but they would not break the sacred period of peace of the Carneia. After many hours of grueling fight, the Greek lines finally broke. The Persian army had free passage into the heart of Greece. The Athenian army was lost. Athens would burn.
The disheartening news elicited mixed reactions. Many called for restraint; they would survive and preserve their culture and traditions, even under barbarian rule. But as the panic grew, and people believed they could hear the Persian hooves thunder across the plains, a more radical faction won out, terrifying each other with tales of the Asian cruelty, deciding to deny everything to the invaders. As the barbarians rode into Thessalia and Peloponnesus, rooting out the smaller armies one by one, they found farmers burning their crops and slaughtering their livestock. When Sparta fell, they found the women and children lying in blood-soaked beds with their throat cut, and the men lying besides them, impaled on their own swords.
Thebes had quickly pledged allegiance to the King of Kings; general Mardonius chose to settle there, as first Satrap of Outer Ionia. The new subjects would have a place in the Achaemenid Empire; their culture would be respected. The instigators of the rebellion had been punished; no more blood should flow.
And yet, as hunger swept the land, as frantic refugees fled from city to city, the disease that had taken Miltiades spread even more. Many of the survivors left Greece forever; some took the sea and tried to reach the colonies; other went deeper into the Empire, learning to speak Aramaic, and scattered.
The Greek lands west of the Adriatic were still far outside the reach of Persia. Massilia and Syracusa found themselves swamped with refugees and cut from the usual trade routes. They were easy prey for Carthage, hegemon of the shores of the Western Mediterranean, that would now control entirely the crops of Sicily. As the Carthaginian army could grow larger and stronger, the Latin League was made into a tributary of the african empire. At that time, Rome was just a city slighly larger than most - and it wouldn't ever be anything else.
The last free Greeks, cut off from what was once their world, survived in the cold Tauris, trading sea products with the Scythian nomads of the northern steppe. They could mine silver - but they wondered how long would pass before the barbarians decided to come down and take it all.
In another world, maybe, Greece and Rome could have become the forefathers of a powerful civilization that would take over the western lands, and then spread in all the world, leaving its languages and its customs and its religions in every continent; but not in this one. »
In brief, the Persian army wins at Marathon, the Greek society and culture is functionally destroyed by a combination of warfare, scorched earth and disease, and Carthage takes over the western colonies. Some consequences:
EDIT:
Hey, everyone! First time poster here. I hail from the Speculative Evolution forum, where I'm known as Dromaeosaurus.
A while ago, I happened to read The Years of Rice and Salt, an AH novel in which a magnified Black Plague completely depopulates Europe, leading to a global joint hegemony of Islamic and Chinese culture in the following centuries. So I've been thinking about an ATL with no Western Civilization - by which I mean no latin script, no Romance/Germanic/Slavic languages, no Christianity, no European nation states, no classical or classical-derived art, and such things. Unlike Years, which destroyed the West before it could spread worldwide, I chose to have it nipped in the bud.
« The King of Kings, Darius I, had sworn vengeance upon Athens for supporting the rebels in Ionia, years before. He sent his army sailing for Attica in the summer of 490 BCE, landing in the bay of Marathon. In that parched plain, the Persian cavalry would easily crush their enemies. In another world, maybe, general Miltiades could have devised a plan to deny the enemy their greatest strength; but not in this one.
A creeping disease, a punishment by Apollo for some unknown transgression, had already taken away the wise general, and worn out many of the Greek soldiers. The shields and the spears of the hoplites were powerful; the arms holding them less so. Messengers were sent to Sparta, but they would not break the sacred period of peace of the Carneia. After many hours of grueling fight, the Greek lines finally broke. The Persian army had free passage into the heart of Greece. The Athenian army was lost. Athens would burn.
The disheartening news elicited mixed reactions. Many called for restraint; they would survive and preserve their culture and traditions, even under barbarian rule. But as the panic grew, and people believed they could hear the Persian hooves thunder across the plains, a more radical faction won out, terrifying each other with tales of the Asian cruelty, deciding to deny everything to the invaders. As the barbarians rode into Thessalia and Peloponnesus, rooting out the smaller armies one by one, they found farmers burning their crops and slaughtering their livestock. When Sparta fell, they found the women and children lying in blood-soaked beds with their throat cut, and the men lying besides them, impaled on their own swords.
Thebes had quickly pledged allegiance to the King of Kings; general Mardonius chose to settle there, as first Satrap of Outer Ionia. The new subjects would have a place in the Achaemenid Empire; their culture would be respected. The instigators of the rebellion had been punished; no more blood should flow.
And yet, as hunger swept the land, as frantic refugees fled from city to city, the disease that had taken Miltiades spread even more. Many of the survivors left Greece forever; some took the sea and tried to reach the colonies; other went deeper into the Empire, learning to speak Aramaic, and scattered.
The Greek lands west of the Adriatic were still far outside the reach of Persia. Massilia and Syracusa found themselves swamped with refugees and cut from the usual trade routes. They were easy prey for Carthage, hegemon of the shores of the Western Mediterranean, that would now control entirely the crops of Sicily. As the Carthaginian army could grow larger and stronger, the Latin League was made into a tributary of the african empire. At that time, Rome was just a city slighly larger than most - and it wouldn't ever be anything else.
The last free Greeks, cut off from what was once their world, survived in the cold Tauris, trading sea products with the Scythian nomads of the northern steppe. They could mine silver - but they wondered how long would pass before the barbarians decided to come down and take it all.
In another world, maybe, Greece and Rome could have become the forefathers of a powerful civilization that would take over the western lands, and then spread in all the world, leaving its languages and its customs and its religions in every continent; but not in this one. »
In brief, the Persian army wins at Marathon, the Greek society and culture is functionally destroyed by a combination of warfare, scorched earth and disease, and Carthage takes over the western colonies. Some consequences:
- As a consequence of the Greek diaspora, Greek customs/language/religion could still survive and spread in the Near East, except they are subordinate to the Persian culture. Maybe the Greeks could survive in small scattered communities, like the Jews in OTL Europe. Could we see, say, a sort of Platonist/Buddhist hybrid religion take over the Near East?
- The prolonged survival of Carthage could mean more links between Western Europe and Africa, maybe allowing West African customs to reach the Celtic tribes, and vice versa. With the Mediterranean clearly split between Carthage in the west and Persia in the east, there's no unified concept of Europe like that arising from the Roman Empire.
- Obviously the Achaemenid Empire cannot be taken down by Alexander the Great. How long could it last? In OTL there was a rebellion in Egypt soon after Marathon, so I could see it collapsing from rebellion a century or two after the PoD, especially if disease or external attacks (say, raids from the Scythians) contribute.
- At this point China is in the Spring and Autumn period. I thought it would be interesting if it gets unified by a state other than Qin - for example, Chu. We could have "Miltiades' plague" following the Greek diaspora and weakening Qin, though that feels a bit arbitrary. Without Qin Shi Huang, a different political philosophy could take over (more detail in a future post).
- I'm kinda stuck on India: like China, at this point is divided in fighting kingdoms. The Maurya Empire develops from Magadha after Alexander's invasion of the west, so it might not exist ITTL. Maybe a different kingdom takes over, like Kashi (but that seems too similar to what happens in China)? Or do the Indian kingdoms simply remain divided? Maybe a Kushan-like nomad empire?
- I'm even less sure about the Tauris Greeks. Could they be integrated in a Scythian state, sedentarizing in the Pontic steppe?
- I'm going to leave the Americas and Oceania unchanged from OTL until the Old World civilizations actually interact with them.
EDIT:
1. The Time of Free Ionia (414 - 360 BS)
2. The End of Hellas (359 - ca. 350 BS)
3. The Partition of the West (357 - 342 BS)
The World in 342 BS
4. Athens in the Steppe (357 - ca. 250 BS)
5. The Ivory Road (ca. 300 - ca. 1 BS)
6. Ripples in the Pond (ca. 200 - 137 BS)
7. China Remade (137 BS - ca. 50 BS)
8. The Heart of the World Shatters (ca. 200 - 111 BS)
The World in 99 BS
9. The Rebirth of Kemet (111 BS - ca. 180 AS)
10. Children of One God (7-37 AS)
11. Red Shore (27 BS - ca. 100 AS)
12. The Prophet of the Azawagh (1 - 68 AS)
13. The Pagan Towers (68 - 167 AS)
14. Blood on the Ganges (ca. 20 - 230 AS)
The World in 230 AS
15. Ten Thousand Sorrows (274 - 530 AS)
16. The White Bear (ca. 300 - 600 AS)
17. Forests of the North (265 - 500 AS)
18. At the Doors of the Great Sea (430 - 730 AS)
19. The Flower Republics (291 - 790 AS)
2. The End of Hellas (359 - ca. 350 BS)
3. The Partition of the West (357 - 342 BS)
The World in 342 BS
4. Athens in the Steppe (357 - ca. 250 BS)
5. The Ivory Road (ca. 300 - ca. 1 BS)
6. Ripples in the Pond (ca. 200 - 137 BS)
7. China Remade (137 BS - ca. 50 BS)
8. The Heart of the World Shatters (ca. 200 - 111 BS)
The World in 99 BS
9. The Rebirth of Kemet (111 BS - ca. 180 AS)
10. Children of One God (7-37 AS)
11. Red Shore (27 BS - ca. 100 AS)
12. The Prophet of the Azawagh (1 - 68 AS)
13. The Pagan Towers (68 - 167 AS)
14. Blood on the Ganges (ca. 20 - 230 AS)
The World in 230 AS
15. Ten Thousand Sorrows (274 - 530 AS)
16. The White Bear (ca. 300 - 600 AS)
17. Forests of the North (265 - 500 AS)
18. At the Doors of the Great Sea (430 - 730 AS)
19. The Flower Republics (291 - 790 AS)
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