Wi:US funds flooding the Qattara Depression 1957

[Vuu]

You don't need the fancy desalination things.

Just a big enough pipe/canal to ensure enough water gets in. As a matter of fact, if you're gonna go that route and not the geothermal evaporator route, make a very shallow, tiny canal, then just let the surge of water naturally deepen it immediately - basically a giant, controlled flash flood.

The evaporation from the lake itself would be enough to increase rainfall in the wider area. As a matter of fact I have an even better idea: after the Qattara fills, make a canal to lake Faiyum and Wade el-Rayan - would fill them up, and they are salty anyway, but would do well to better the microclimate.

There's also a depression directly to the east of Qattara is a small depression that can also be filled - on Google Maps there's a salt lake called Wadi el Natrun. Close to El Sadat, though I think it's too small to make a viable change. Maybe even flood the Siwa Oasis to make an even bigger oasis.

As a matter of fact, I support digging a similar canal to the Dead Sea - the easiest would be to dig it in that valley that goes near Haifa - which would flood almost the entire Jordan Valley. It would also limit Israel rather nicely.

The final phase of this "water the Middle East" megaproject (pffft, it's just digging a bunch of canals, and not one is even as long as the Suez) would be the flooding of the Afar depression/Danakil

I'd even flood the Caspian to sea level, but I doubt much could be gained

 

[Arkenfolm]

A constant water inflow is needed to counter the water evaporation, otherwise the lake would soon disappear again. Not filling it completely would just mean it disappears even faster.

That's why you keep filling it with desalinated water from the Mediterranean. Not filling it completely was IIRC one of the proposals of the project.

 

[Queeney]

That's why you keep filling it with desalinated water from the Mediterranean.

Which economically isn't really viable in the long term, since you would need huge amounts of desalinisation plants to continually desalinate the sea water. And you would also have to consider the growing accumulation of salt, and its subsequently needed disposal.

 

[Nick P]

Which economically isn't really viable in the long term, since you would need huge amounts of desalinisation plants to continually desalinate the sea water. And you would also have to consider the growing accumulation of salt, and its subsequently needed disposal.

How long would it take for the Depression to fill with salt if it evaporates so quickly?
Allowing for soakaway as well?
Are there any aquifers under the Qattara that this water could seep into?
Would this loss be outnumbered by the incoming waters?

How much salt is processed and used by the world? Food, roads, chemicals, pottery, building etc.
You could start up several businesses here just for salt alone.

 

[knightdepaix]

Mining valuable minerals from seawater: a critical review
Extracting Minerals from Seawater: An Energy Analysis
From energy perspective, desalination effort MUST make use of VERY CHEAP ENERGY SOURCE. I persume they are waste heat, hydroelectricity and solar energy. In particular,
From mineral perspective, only sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium and lithium are worth mined given the very large amount of energy involved.

My questions are:
1) Can the lower altitude of the depression drive hydroelectricity?
2) If yes to 2), can monitoring the salinity of the created lake go hand in hand with hydroelectricity?
3) Can condensing the evaporated water after the desalination effort by heat transfer to thermal energy storage. The technology to covert thermal energy -- essentially solar energy -- into electricity is available.
4) Can this electricity drive electrodialysis for extracting more minerals?
5) Is the energy input from solar energy and waste heat enough to drive the whole process feasibly and economically viably?

 

[knightdepaix]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d30!4d27.5?hl=en

Geoeconomics of Egypt's new capital

If the project creates a populated ring of land surrounding the created lake, the northwestern tip of the ring can be the new capital, which can be half way in distance from the Egyptian borders with Libya and Israel.

 

[jerseyguy]

That's my point: you can't dig the Qattara Canal the way the Suez Canal was dug. The terrain for the Suez Canal is so flat it doesn't even have locks.

That's what nuclear weapons are for. There were lots of interesting schemes under the name of Project Plowshare to use nuclear detonations in massive construction/engineering projects in the '50s and '60s.

The Soviets or the Americans could use underground detonations to try and open a strait from the Mediterranean to the Depression, and put some kind of geo-engineering plan in place to make the area around it suitable for agriculture and large scale settlement. This was the era before environmentalism and the heyday of economic statism, when mega-projects like a 90 kilometer dam across the Bering Strait to melt the ice caps could proposed.

 

[knightdepaix]

This was the era before environmentalism and the heyday of economic statism, when mega-projects like a 90 kilometer dam across the Bering Strait to melt the ice caps could proposed.

How about now... By the similar reason, can a canal, underground or on surface connect the Salon Sea in California to the Pacific Ocean? The inflow of seawater is controlled to allow desalination by solar energy, alternate energy and waste heat. The management of energy is integrated into that of the electricity grid. In other words, extra intermittent energy generation powers the desalination partially. Can desalinated water be used for agriculture and industry?

 

[sitalkes]

 

[jerseyguy]

How about now... By the similar reason, can a canal, underground or on surface connect the Salon Sea in California to the Pacific Ocean? The inflow of seawater is controlled to allow desalination by solar energy, alternate energy and waste heat. The management of energy is integrated into that of the electricity grid. In other words, extra intermittent energy generation powers the desalination partially. Can desalinated water be used for agriculture and industry?

Parts of the land between the sea and the coast are 3000 feet above sea level, and the ~160 km distance would be almost the length of the Suez Canal. The Egyptian desert is so sparsely populated I wouldn't be as concerned about dangers in the Qattara project, but this California canal would be ridiculously close to LA and San Diego.

I guess if it was underground it might be safe, but that's a non-engineer's educated guess.​

 

[Mr.J]

Except that the Med is also connected to the Atlantic, and the volume of water being moved to the depression would be infintismal to the volume of said water bodies.

Plus, I'm fairly sure that the Nile wouldn't flow any quicker because the vast majority of the river would be totally unaffected by the decline (which wouldn't even be noticeable).

The bigger issue would be the creation of a hypersaline lake and what happens when it starts to silt up with salt when the water reaches carrying capacity. The extra moisture in the air probably makes for a great little microclimate but I'm not sure how long the whole thing could last.

Yeah, the Salton Sea is not great to live by these days AFAIK. Though that's because water isn't flowing in anymore to replace evaporation IIRC? Whereas with this one there would be water coming in.

 

[knightdepaix]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Salada_(Mexico)
The lake itself is located on the bottom of a shallow depression, a graben, which is linked to the San Andreas Fault, and the East Pacific Rise as part of the Laguna Salada Fault. This fault is connected to the Salton Trough fault which holds a similar depression, the Salton Sink (Salton Sink, United States [−66 m (−217 ft)] below sea level). This sink is bigger than Laguna Salada (Baja California, Mexico [−10 m (−33 ft) below sea level]) and contains the Salton Sea.[2] The 2010 Baja California earthquake occurred [t]here.
https://www.google.com/maps/place//@32.2857282,-115.8079285,8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0!5m1!1e4?hl=en

The issue there is the tectonic activity. Other than that, seawater and some amount but not all water from the Colorado River can be directed from the Gulf of California and fills both the Laguna and the Sink. Israel and Jordan mined mineral from the Dead Sea as economical development, the USA would manage the northern end of the created Lake and Mexico the southwestern and southeastern ends. Sodium, chlorine, potassium, calcium and magnesium can be mined and the desalinated water can be used for industry or agriculture.

 

[knightdepaix]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Basin
During the Holocene, from 11,000 years ago until recently, a giant "Lake Mega-Chad" covered an area of more than 350,000 square kilometres (140,000 sq mi) in the basin.[5] It would have drained to the Atlantic Ocean via the Benue River. Stratigraphic records show that "Mega-Chad" varied in size as the climate changed, with a peak about 2,300 years ago. The remains of fish and molluscs from this period are found in what are now desert regions.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benue_River
Large tributaries are the Faro River, the Gongola River and the Mayo Kébbi, which connects it with the Logone River (part of the Lake Chad system) during floods. Other tributaries are Taraba River and River Katsina Ala.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benue_River#/media/File:Benuerivermap.png

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45546695

Another project can be the redirection of water from the Benue to fill the Chad Basin. Killing the flooding problem in Nigeria and the evaporation of Lake Chad with one [stone].

As with most projects, the environmental concern is loss of nutrients to the Amazon rainforest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Basin
The lowest part of the basin is not Lake Chad, but the Bodélé Depression, at a distance of 480 kilometres (300 mi) to the northeast of the lake. The Bodélé Depression is just 155 metres (509 ft) above sea level in its deepest portion, while the surface of Lake Chad is 275 metres (902 ft) above sea level.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodélé_Depression
Dust storms from the Bodélé Depression occur on average about 100 days per year,[1]. Diatoms from these fresh water lakes, once part of Mega-Lake Chad, now make up the surface of the depression and are the source material for the dust,[1] which, carried across the Atlantic Ocean, is an important source of nutrient minerals for the Amazon rainforest.

 

[knightdepaix]

FYI The Ocean is Way Deeper Than You Think

Using seawater or water that are going to drain to the ocean seem to be feasible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQu...hy_not_flood_the_desert_to_offset_rising_sea/

The surface area of the oceans is about 360,000,000 km2. The volume of the Qattara Depression is about 1213 km3. Filling it would barely be reduce the sea level by about 3.4 millimeters.

 

[knightdepaix]

A tools for use:
The open channel flow calculator
http://www.eng.auburn.edu/~xzf0001/Handbook/Channels.html

 

[knightdepaix]

There's also Ethiopia's Denakil Depression.
View attachment 454176
Filling it would provide them with a natural harbor and access to the sea, something they haven't had since Eritrea's independence.

Impact of climate change on Africa
How will the African geopolitical stage be affected by climate change in the coming future and what [are the preparations]? Should they take to prepare and what consequences will it have for the rest of the world if African countries are not prepared to deal with such problems?
According to the climate change vulnerability, Africa is being hit hardest by climate change. Seven of the ten countries most at-risk are in Africa climate change is affecting the continent in a number of ways. For most, weather patterns are changing drastically and resulting in more serious environmental disasters such as droughts and floods.
Water stress levels are another prevailing issue in some parts of the continent. Rivers and lakes are receding while in other parts glaciers are melting and changing the flow of rivers this actually impacts the local hydroelectric dams and transportation systems etc.
So you can imagine what kind of impact this has on the livelihoods of the people. For instance in East Africa rainfall has diminished significantly and for a region that depends almost entirely on rain for its agriculture that is a drastic change. The result has been poor crop yields and livestock productivity ultimately leading to famine and humanitarian disasters in Ethiopia Kenya and Somalia. About 12 million people are facing malnourishment and as the distribution of water changes it affects the local settlements. Severe flooding has destroyed towns across Africa and as resources get stretched thinly due to climate change and population growth, disputes over fertile land and clean water have intensified and led to more violence.
The UN predicts that in the next 25 years access to water will be the single biggest cause of conflict in Africa and in turn this contributes and will continue to contribute to the migration of people.
Petroleum discovery in Pakistan
Pakistan has an enormous appetite for energy but only 15% of its petroleum needs are met by domestic production. That is dangerously low. The rest is imported from sources far beyond its borders; however high energy prices have inflated import bills and drained Islamabad's foreign exchange reserves so Pakistan may have hit the jackpot with the recent discovery. According to early studies, the hydrocarbon deposits may be enough for Pakistan's needs for the next three decades. That will fundamentally reinforce the country's energy security and the state more options going into the future.
But the discovery of crude oil may also be a blessing in disguise, especially in the case of Pakistan. The country is burdened by socio-economic problems. Its literacy rate stands at 58%. School enrollment stands at 76% while some 21 million Pakistanis do not have access to clean water. On top of that corruption is deeply embedded in the state and only 1% of Pakistanis actually pays its taxes.
For those reasons and many more, the authority of the civilian government is weak. So the country needs drastic and systematic reforms and despair can be a good motivator. Imran Khan and his party acknowledged these social economic troubles and have taken serious steps towards reform; however the discovery of oil would reduce pressure for reform and allow the state to postpone the necessary changes indefinitely, leaving the country a victim of the resource curse. So a serious plan is necessary and educational reforms must be pushed through regardless of the discovery of oil and the relaxed urgency of the situation.

Is this helpful?

 

[merlin]

The surface area of the oceans is about 360,000,000 km2. The volume of the Qattara Depression is about 1213 km3. Filling it would barely be reduce the sea level by about 3.4 millimeters.

OTOH - every little helps, OTOH it's not times one, but with evaporation - considering how hot the area is, it will be a multiple of that. Moreover, hopefully the rain will fall in arid areas, another plus.

 

[knightdepaix]

youtu.be/6fBPf84LOyc
[D]espair can be a good motivator...[H]owever the discovery of oil would reduce pressure for reform and allow the state to postpone the necessary changes indefinitely, leaving the country a victim of the resource curse.

The surface area of the oceans is about 360,000,000 km2. The volume of the Qattara Depression is about 1213 km3. Filling it would barely be reduce the sea level by about 3.4 millimeters. https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/6xzbjh/why_not_flood_the_desert_to_offset_rising_sea/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources_management_in_Egypt
Sections Future resources and Impact of sea level rise in the Nile Delta
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) expects the sea level to rise by up to 98 cm in the worst of all considered scenarios, and by 28 cm in the most benign scenario, by 2100.

As the QDP is going to get its water from the Mediterranean Sea
https://www.google.com/search?clien.......0i71j0i7i30j0i8i7i30j0i7i5i30.ajtCk84KoMk
Surface area of Mediterranean Sea 2,500,000 km2 average depth 1500m water volume 3750000km3. Using similar arithmetic that arrived at 3.4mm,
(1213km3/3750000km3)x1500m = 0.4852m=48.52cm which is between 98 cm and 28 cm. So in optimistic case, the QDP could counter the rising sea level in the Nile Delta.

 

[knightdepaix]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
From 1960 to 1998, the sea's surface area shrank by about 60%, and its volume by 80%. In 1960, the Aral Sea had been the world's fourth-largest lake, with a volume of 1,100 km3.

Refilling it and the QD would barely reduce the ocean level in total by about 5.74 millimeters. Thus filling the Ethiopia's Denakil Depression and the Chad Basin could also be feasible using river water and glacier that could have gone to the ocean, saving the desalination effort. However, if the desalination effort brings other benefits --- the evaporation of the Dead Sea generates minerals, another consideration can be brought into a whole project that is similar to the QDP.

 

[knightdepaix]

Parts of the land between the sea and the coast are 3000 feet above sea level, and the ~160 km distance would be almost the length of the Suez Canal. The Egyptian desert is so sparsely populated I wouldn't be as concerned about dangers in the Qattara project, but this California canal would be ridiculously close to LA and San Diego. I guess if it was underground it might be safe, but that's a non-engineer's educated guess.

Yeah, the Salton Sea is not great to live by these days AFAIK. Though that's because water isn't flowing in anymore to replace evaporation IIRC? Whereas with this one there would be water coming in.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...s-eleven-proposals-save-salton-sea/516602002/
Published 5:21 p.m. PT April 16, 2018 | Updated 2:11 p.m. PT April 17, 2018
At least some progresses and proposals about water body reclamation of an uninhabited depression with water -- the reversal of land reclamation from the sea.