WI: The Dutch East India Company reaches Korea, and at the same time, the Netherlands, which owns the VOC, immediately colonises the Korean Peninsula

[Lord High Executioner]

strangely enough we can understand a significant number of Scandinavian words, not Finnish specifically, but Norwegian. Estonian is not among them though.

Probably not what the OP meant or actually understands, since he thinks they can just go ahead and take everything. But still.

My memory tells me, and thus I tell others, that I, at the age of ten or so, read the Dutch text in model train catalogue without
realising that it was actually a foreign language until I reached the end. (I think I was just relieved there was a section where
enough words looked sort of right after the English, German and French bits.)
But I am a Swede, speaking a language from a different branch of the Germanic languages, and OP clearly specified Finnish
and Estonian, which are not even Indo-European (they are related to each other, but I'm unclear on how mutually intelligeble they are).

 

[Yatta]

strangely enough we can understand a significant number of Scandinavian words, not Finnish specifically, but Norwegian. Estonian is not among them though.

Probably not what the OP meant or actually understands, since he thinks they can just go ahead and take everything. But still.

I believe he's commenting on how the Finnish and Estonian languages are in the Uralic language family with Hungarian, and more specifically in their own Finnic division, whereas the Dutch and most other European languages are from the Indo-european language family.

Long story short, Dutch and Finnish+Estonian share no common ancestors at all. Not even if we go back to say 10,000 BCE.

 

[Gabingston]

• Eddie Van Halen - born in the Netherlands, the lead singer and guitarist of the eponymous band

The music nerd side of me cringed. Eddie was the guitarist, but not the lead singer, who was either David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar for most of their history (yes, before someone brings it up, I know about the time Gary Cherone was the lead singer in the Late 90s).
As for the main topic (a Dutch colonization of Korea), I could see the Dutch (I.E. VOC) nabbing Jeju and maybe a port or two (likely Busan), but probably not the entire peninsula. It'd be a lot like the Dutch involvement in Japan, where they had a base in Nagasaki but not much else.

 

[Denliner]

I could see the Dutch (I.E. VOC) nabbing Jeju and maybe a port or two (likely Busan), but probably not the entire peninsula. It'd be a lot like the Dutch involvement in Japan, where they had a base in Nagasaki but not much else.

This is the most realistic scenario that I could see out of Dutch/VOC involvement in Korea. Ports in Jeju (or even a colony) and Busan, but not much else. It'd probably require a more successful Netherlands back home with them not getting screwed over in the Anglo-Dutch Wars while also establishing full control over Formosa as a base to trade with China and Japan.

So far I'm not really convinced at the feasibility or the rationale of the Dutch trying to colonize all of Korea from the OP, but the scenario of the VOC trading with Korea is intriguing to me. Maybe it'll become interesting material for a Netherlands wank timeline?

 

[pompejus]

It'd probably require a more successful Netherlands back home with them not getting screwed over in the Anglo-Dutch Wars while also establishing full control over Formosa as a base to trade with China and Japan.

The Anglo-Dutch wars were far less damaging for the Dutch Republic than people seem to think (especialy ifwe ignore the 4th one, which was unrelated to the first 3 and happened a century later). The Fanco-Dutch war that happened simultaniously with the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war was far more damaging, since half the country was occupied by the French. The thing about the 2nd and 3rd Anglo-Dutch war is that the Dutch won. The English were beaten by the Dutch. You can even see it in the peace treaty of the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war. The Dutch traded New Amsterdam for the far more valuable Surinam. It is unimaginable these days that Surinam is more important than New York, but Surinam had sugar, while New Amsterdam only had people, which were surrounded by hostile Indians and English. Surinam was so much more valuable than New Amsterdam that the English actualy offered to return New Amsterdam to the Dutch if the Dutch returned Surinam. The Dutch refused the offer. Also The VOC still rules supreme in East Asia. And in the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war? The Dutch recaptured New York, beat the English, who couldn't wait to make peace with the Dutch. And the Dutch couldm't wait to make peace with the Engish, since they hadbigger problems than the English: the French, who, as mentioned, occupied half the country.

I would say that the decline of the VOC and the Dutch republic were not caused by the Anglo-Dutch wars, or even the war(s) with France. I would say that it was caused by the Glorious Revolution, the complacency of the VOC/the Netherlands and corruption. The Glorious Revolution, because the Dutch introduced several Dutch financial and economic innovations to England/Britain, so it lost the edge it had over England. With complacency I mean that the VOC was so succesful in the 17th century that it thought it didn't need to innovate anymore,even though the other countries (especialy England) were cathing up, so the VOC lost ithe advantage it had over the English (and over the local Asians, especialy in India). With corruption I mean is that the Dutch republic became incredibly corrupt, which was a major part of its downfall.

 

[lionhead]

The Anglo-Dutch wars were far less damaging for the Dutch Republic than people seem to think (especialy ifwe ignore the 4th one, which was unrelated to the first 3 and happened a century later). The Fanco-Dutch war that happened simultaniously with the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war was far more damaging, since half the country was occupied by the French. The thing about the 2nd and 3rd Anglo-Dutch war is that the Dutch won. The English were beaten by the Dutch. You can even see it in the peace treaty of the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war. The Dutch traded New Amsterdam for the far more valuable Surinam. It is unimaginable these days that Surinam is more important than New York, but Surinam had sugar, while New Amsterdam only had people, which were surrounded by hostile Indians and English. Surinam was so much more valuable than New Amsterdam that the English actualy offered to return New Amsterdam to the Dutch if the Dutch returned Surinam. The Dutch refused the offer. Also The VOC still rules supreme in East Asia. And in the 3rd Anglo-Dutch war? The Dutch recaptured New York, beat the English, who couldn't wait to make peace with the Dutch. And the Dutch couldm't wait to make peace with the Engish, since they hadbigger problems than the English: the French, who, as mentioned, occupied half the country.

I would say that the decline of the VOC and the Dutch republic were not caused by the Anglo-Dutch wars, or even the war(s) with France. I would say that it was caused by the Glorious Revolution, the complacency of the VOC/the Netherlands and corruption. The Glorious Revolution, because the Dutch introduced several Dutch financial and economic innovations to England/Britain, so it lost the edge it had over England. With complacency I mean that the VOC was so succesful in the 17th century that it thought it didn't need to innovate anymore,even though the other countries (especialy England) were cathing up, so the VOC lost ithe advantage it had over the English (and over the local Asians, especialy in India). With corruption I mean is that the Dutch republic became incredibly corrupt, which was a major part of its downfall.

the first 3 anglo-dutch wars might have been won by the Dutch, but they didn't exactly strengthen the Dutch Republic either, they only more or less prevented from being overwhelmed by the English and were saved mostly because of turmoil in England itself rather than the few brilliant tactical victories they had over the English fleet. Prestigious, but not decisive victories that didn't prevent the English from trying again. It would have been better if the Dutch had imple,mented restrictions on England or had taken colonies away from them, which in the end meant more power than the fleet size and trade rights(sphere of influence).

 

[Rfl23]

(Not a mod but) Chill please.

How about ITTL the Dutch only hold on to small but vital regions in Indonesia for the spice trade, while their main settlement/manpower/crown jewel colony is centered on the Korean Peninsula instead.

Edit: Oh and to @Rfl23's point. With the Dutch colonizing Korea pre-1900, they'd presumably be modernized and industrialized by the Dutch decades before the Chinese and Japanese rise up to date to the European powers. This could even give the colony/Korea the upper hand needed to annex Manchuria, making it an even more attractive settlement area for the Dutch.

Maybe i mean they did industrialise java but then again could they? Considering indonesia is much more profitable

 

[Rfl23]

The music nerd side of me cringed. Eddie was the guitarist, but not the lead singer, who was either David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar for most of their history (yes, before someone brings it up, I know about the time Gary Cherone was the lead singer in the Late 90s).
As for the main topic (a Dutch colonization of Korea), I could see the Dutch (I.E. VOC) nabbing Jeju and maybe a port or two (likely Busan), but probably not the entire peninsula. It'd be a lot like the Dutch involvement in Japan, where they had a base in Nagasaki but not much else.

So like the situation in hong kong and macau then? A european territory in asia? (It would be interesting seeing the dutch if they nab it making jeju an official territory)

 

[lionhead]

If we are talking about Macau or Hongkong style territory why are we talking about Jeju island? Jeju is a bit too far off the coast. Why not Geoje island instead?

 

[Gabingston]

If we are talking about Macau or Hongkong style territory why are we talking about Jeju island? Jeju is a bit too far off the coast. Why not Geoje island instead?

Because Jeju was the first place that popped into mind for me. Decent sized island that would have good access to Korea, Japan and China. Looking at the map, Geoje would probably work as a base as well, especially if they couldn't nab Busan.

 

[Fernan3451]

How the heck is the VOC supposed to afford conquering Korea, and keep Indonesia?

Not to mention that taking (even attempting to take):

• Belgium and Luxembourg, already completed
• Sicily and Sardinia, from Italy
• All of the Nordics and Baltics, Denmark, Sweden, Finland (since its language is similar to Dutch), Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Estonia (like Finland, its language is also similar to Dutch), Latvia, Lithuania, etc.
• Wales, Scotland (plus Orkney and Shetland Islands), Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, Ireland, Malta, Gibraltar, and Cyprus
• All of Central Asia, plus Mongolia, Tibet, Xinjiang, and Manchuria
• Burma (Boerma), Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Macau, Palau, Guam, Micronesia, Hawaii, Alaska, etc.

Is stupidly ASB.

I agree. Maybe because taking all of that territory at once is a British Empire-like venture.
Also with the fact that they would have lots of disputes (insert Japan and Russia) this is not possible.
As a matter of fact, should we ask someone to move all of this guy's countrywanks to Alien Space Bats and Other Magic?

 

[Jurgen Wullenwever]

My memory tells me, and thus I tell others, that I, at the age of ten or so, read the Dutch text in model train catalogue without
realising that it was actually a foreign language until I reached the end. (I think I was just relieved there was a section where
enough words looked sort of right after the English, German and French bits.)
But I am a Swede, speaking a language from a different branch of the Germanic languages, and OP clearly specified Finnish
and Estonian, which are not even Indo-European (they are related to each other, but I'm unclear on how mutually intelligeble they are).

A Finnish speaker once told me that the distance between Finnish and Estonian was similar to the distance between Swedish and Dutch.

I believe he's commenting on how the Finnish and Estonian languages are in the Uralic language family with Hungarian, and more specifically in their own Finnic division, whereas the Dutch and most other European languages are from the Indo-european language family.

Long story short, Dutch and Finnish+Estonian share no common ancestors at all. Not even if we go back to say 10,000 BCE.

If you go that far back, this might not be undisputed. There have been a number of historical linguists who have supported the Indo-Uralic theory in the past 150 years.

 

[Lord High Executioner]

A Finnish speaker once told me that the distance between Finnish and Estonian was similar to the distance between Swedish and Dutch.

That makes sense, and is hard to tell for an outsider - it could have been merely that between Swedish and Danish.

 

[Rfl23]

I agree. Maybe because taking all of that territory at once is a British Empire-like venture.
Also with the fact that they would have lots of disputes (insert Japan and Russia) this is not possible.
As a matter of fact, should we ask someone to move all of this guy's countrywanks to Alien Space Bats and Other Magic?

I think we should though i bet the op wont be happy

 

[pompejus]

I think we should though i bet the op wont be happy

I also don't think if we simply look for more realistic ways for a Dutch presence in Korea.

 

[Rfl23]

I also don't think if we simply look for more realistic ways for a Dutch presence in Korea.

There is nothing that can make that happen beyond trading port or nabbing some small island (like hong kong and macau) because i mean indonesia itself is hard to conquer (with many rebellion) imagine taking korea too it would be like running while carrying a 1 tonne safe