WI: Revanchist Britain towards America- What if Britain actively sought to reconquer America?

[GameBawesome]

As we know, USA and British relations got off on a rocky start.

After independence, America still had heavy ties to Britain. But during the War of 1812, Britain and America fought one another for Canada. A common misconception I’ve seen some people say, is that Britain intended to reconquer American and the War of 1812 was a “Second American Revolution”. This was not true; The British had no intentions of reconquering the Thirteen Colonies (Besides this small dispute in Maine; See New Ireland), but it was mainly to protect their Canadian holdings (And tried to establish a Indian Buffer-state, but we know how that went)

After that, and besides some animosity in the early and mid-19th century, Britain and American relations got closer by the end of 19th century.

What if British took American independence way more bitterly than OTL? To the point where a hawkish ideology forms -To the point of Revanchism- in Britain, where they actually wanted to reconquer the USA, ignoring all logic and the benefits of amicable relations between them, in order restore British control over all of North America

How would a more Revanchist Britain towards America affect their relations?

 

[unprincipled peter]

How would a more Revanchist Britain towards America affect their relations

Well, obviously it knocks that 'special relationship' off course. A better question is what form that bitterness takes.

Reconquering and reabsorbing all of the lost colonies is a nonstarter. Britain couldn't keep the colonies in the fold, so how are they going to outright defeat them to the point of being able to annex them? Isn't going to happen.

But, Britain could act out that bitterness by not being cooperative. They might not back the USA when Spain is attempting to claim much of the USA south as being Spanish. OTL, the Florida/Georgia border was left intentionally vague, and USA was able to press the claims favorably. TTL, Britain might put language in the treaty making the border more favorable to Spain. Ditto for the West Florida border, or Britain may help Spain press the whole border more northerly.

Britain might actively press regaining the old Northwest (Illinois/Indiana/Michigan/Wisconsin). Or getting more of Maine/New Hampshire/Vermont.

IF Britain is so hell bent on revenge, they might take the War of 1812 seriously (or push it forward by being bellicose earlier) and put a whooping on the USA before they can get their act together. Britain isn't retaking the colonies, but they could nibble away at the fringes. Maybe the far south can be retaken and turned into a British Dominion.

Later, Britain could help actively squash the Louisiana Purchase, or see it returned to Spain at Vienna.

Later still, Britain could press claims to the Pacific Northwest, keeping USA off that coast.

Later, later, still, Britain could cause havoc in the Civil War.

 

[Deleted member 195769]

As we know, USA and British relations got off on a rocky start.

After independence, America still had heavy ties to Britain. But during the War of 1812, Britain and America fought one another for Canada. A common misconception I’ve seen some people say, is that Britain intended to reconquer American and the War of 1812 was a “Second American Revolution”. This was not true; The British had no intentions of reconquering the Thirteen Colonies (Besides this small dispute in Maine; See New Ireland), but it was mainly to protect their Canadian holdings (And tried to establish a Indian Buffer-state, but we know how that went)

After that, and besides some animosity in the early and mid-19th century, Britain and American relations got closer by the end of 19th century.

What if British took American independence way more bitterly than OTL? To the point where a hawkish ideology forms -To the point of Revanchism- in Britain, where they actually wanted to reconquer the USA, ignoring all logic and the benefits of amicable relations between them, in order restore British control over all of North America

How would a more Revanchist Britain towards America affect their relations?

I don’t know whether this is ASB but maybe the south stays loyal to the crown during the revolution and only the north gained independence? Their politics would be dominated by the federalists so they would’t expand beyond their borders too much and they would remain anglophiles.

 

[dcharles]

I don’t know whether this is ASB but maybe the south stays loyal to the crown during the revolution and only the north gained independence? Their politics would be dominated by the federalists so they would’t expand beyond their borders too much and they would remain anglophiles.

So.... The opposite of this WI?

 

[Fatt Shea]

As we know, USA and British relations got off on a rocky start.

After independence, America still had heavy ties to Britain. But during the War of 1812, Britain and America fought one another for Canada. A common misconception I’ve seen some people say, is that Britain intended to reconquer American and the War of 1812 was a “Second American Revolution”. This was not true; The British had no intentions of reconquering the Thirteen Colonies (Besides this small dispute in Maine; See New Ireland), but it was mainly to protect their Canadian holdings (And tried to establish a Indian Buffer-state, but we know how that went)

After that, and besides some animosity in the early and mid-19th century, Britain and American relations got closer by the end of 19th century.

What if British took American independence way more bitterly than OTL? To the point where a hawkish ideology forms -To the point of Revanchism- in Britain, where they actually wanted to reconquer the USA, ignoring all logic and the benefits of amicable relations between them, in order restore British control over all of North America

How would a more Revanchist Britain towards America affect their relations?

A hostile relationship would damage both economies since their good trade relations of OTL would be damaged with increased tarriffs on both sides.
It would also cause the USA to invest more into its millitary and navy earlier on seeing British reconquest as a major threat (even if they didn't have a chance of full reconquest that wouldn't stop people panicking about it, especially with warmongers warning trying to make poeple scared.)
The same would be true for the UK or at least Canada, which would have a far larger British millitary presance than OTL, it would also strengthen the Canadian identity as being more anti US and closer to Britain, seeing the need for British protection against a more hostile US.
It could also lead to the US viewing Napoleon more favourably, seeing as he was going to war with their main enemy, of course they would still have idealogical problems but we could see them being much closer.
There is also the problem of the Monroe doctrine, OTL Britain helped the USA to enforce it since the US navy wasn't the strongest at the time, the US might look for a new partner to help them enforce this, the most likely one is France since they are the only other country with a big navy, although there are some problems with this so they may have to do it alone with their improved navy.
Another thing that could happen is native tribes getting support from Britain in their fight against the US, this could lead to slower settlement and a higher native population, although it could lead to harsher treatment by settlers due to seeing the natives as British agents.
The US would do the same thing with Canada's natives and they would also fund the metis when they rebelled, they would also claim to support Quebecois independance and would fund organisations related to it and harbour Quebecois exiles, how succesful this would be depends on British actions.
Another effect is that the British could support Mexico against the US if the US ends up getting Lousianna. This could lead to the US not pursuing the war for fear of a two front war.