WI: NACA Modified P-38

@Just Leo that is a great rendering of the P-38 in TTL! Thank you for that. And yes, it is not perfect. It still has a lot of bugs to be worked out just as the the OTL P-38 had.

Ralph Virden reported that it ran hot on auto-lean and required the flaps opened and a switch to auto-rich
This was a temporary problem only. It was caused by using a too-small of a radiator from a P-39 in the testbed airplane due to their ready availability and proper height to fit in the leading edge installation. With an appropriately sized radiator which fills the area I roughly indicated in the diagram of the OP (or a little more even) the coolant over-heat problems have been solved.

In light of Ralph Virden's latest close call and the soon to follow Acceptance Test for #41-1983 which indicated insufficient carburetor air cooling I believe the next step in Kelly Johnson's P-38 Improvement Program will be to tackle improved and strengthened intercooler installations (as we were discussing earlier).
 
Some people have nothing better to do.
Those are both lovely. My personal preference is with tiptanks, which I've something of a fetish about.:p (As witness my adoration for the projected F4U-1D with them, the P-80, & at least one homebuilt {name of which I can't recall:teary:}...) Looking at the 2-view, tho, it seemed like the tanks were a trifle small; maybe that's influenced by the reduced need for fuel (compared to the thirsty P-80). Is strain on the spar an issue?

Also, as noted upthread, the leading edge rad intakes would seem to interfere with any notional fuel tanks, so the OTL ones are likely to be (at best) reduced or (more likely) eliminated.
I would love to see it but for TTL with the limits I have given myself I just don't know I can justifiably do it. :-(
I think you've got it right. Absent knowing what went on inside Lockheed to produce the decision for a new P-80 wing...

As to the last update, again, well done. (Only one tiny nitpick: "in favor of the Mossie" I presume was meant to be "in preference of"...)
 
I have always liked wingtip tanks as well. I see no reason that if we were re-winging the P-38, especially post war while also adding turboprops or other more powerful engines, that we could not add the tip tanks. They are sexy as hell.

As to the last update, again, well done. (Only one tiny nitpick: "in favor of the Mossie" I presume was meant to be "in preference of"...)
Fixed.
 
@Just Leo although beyond the scope of TTL P-38, do you think it would have been possible to adapt the P-80/T-33 wing to the P-38? I am thinking that one could shorten it up a little and and use it as the outer wing section. The inner section of the wing could use either the 66-115--which would give plenty of space for the main tanks but would reduce the size of the Reserve tank quite a bit (I think)--or a larger version of the P-80's 65-213. The wingtip tanks would then, as you previously said up thread, take the place of the leading edge tanks and more than make up for a slight reduction in Reserve tank size (the L.E. tanks OTL were 55 gal. each, the P-80A tanks were 255 gal. each).
 
Will the various fixes proposed earlier in TTL make a difference in the aircraft given to the RAF?

On a completely alternate note, will the redesigned components of the P-38 have any effect on the XP-58 Chain Lightning? Could it succeed either as an alternative to the Twin Mustang or the A-26? I'll admit that the thought of A-58 Chain Lightnings using their 75mm cannon to take down Axis strongpoints makes me drool. Alternatively, F-58 Chain Lightnings escorting B-29 bombers over Japan also works.
Seriously? The Chain Lightning? Why not stick to the B-25 for attacking and build a fighter version.... It was a lighter and smaller plane.
 
Seriously? The Chain Lightning? Why not stick to the B-25 for attacking and build a fighter version.... It was a lighter and smaller plane.
At that point you're looking later in the war and you may as well use the A-26 which could be equipped with the 75mm howitzer too (although it was never done operationally) if you really wanted it. Otherwise, load it out as they did late war: eight-gun nose plus three in each wing plus bombs and later external stores as well. In Vietnam the B-26K (aka A-26A) was quite successful in the attack role and was capable of carrying more than twice its designed bomb load.
 
At that point you're looking later in the war and you may as well use the A-26 which could be equipped with the 75mm howitzer too (although it was never done operationally) if you really wanted it. Otherwise, load it out as they did late war: eight-gun nose plus three in each wing plus bombs and later external stores as well. In Vietnam the B-26K (aka A-26A) was quite successful in the attack role and was capable of carrying more than twice its designed bomb load.
I'd have liked to see some free-flight rockets under the wings too. Though the idea of a cluster of four auto-loading 37mm cannon is an interesting one..
 
@Just Leo although beyond the scope of TTL P-38, do you think it would have been possible to adapt the P-80/T-33 wing to the P-38? I am thinking that one could shorten it up a little and and use it as the outer wing section. The inner section of the wing could use either the 66-115--which would give plenty of space for the main tanks but would reduce the size of the Reserve tank quite a bit (I think)--or a larger version of the P-80's 65-213. The wingtip tanks would then, as you previously said up thread, take the place of the leading edge tanks and more than make up for a slight reduction in Reserve tank size (the L.E. tanks OTL were 55 gal. each, the P-80A tanks were 255 gal. each).


00Lightningswordfishxrrxx.png

The P-80 wing could look like a good fit, but structurally, the guts are in the wrong place. This P-38 has the enlarged outer port wing and a scabbed in P-80 wing to starboard. The seam lines show where the spars are.
The aft max. thickness of the laminar airfoil affects the construction details. Alternate timelines usually center around the product, but not the tools that made that product possible.
 
Ch.4 - New Requirements (Jan 1942)
3 January 1942
Wright Field
Dayton, Ohio, USA


Major Ben Kelsey, chief of the Pursuit Branch of the Army Air Forces’ Production Engineering Section, the P-38’s original test pilot and biggest proponent, completed reviewing the latest performance test memorandum reports from Lockheed. The three reports were delivered the previous week and with the Army building up to Maximum Effort for the newly joined war the 34 year old aviator was wasting no time digesting the data.

The first report was a supplement to the preliminary report he had received in early November regarding the Performance Acceptance Tests carried out by Lockheed using a production block P-38E (#41-1983). The tests were cut short after the left engine ingested some debris from somewhere in the ducts, forcing a shut down. The data which was obtained prior to the failure, however, was acceptable if underwhelming.

The current production airplane—while still faster than anything else in the current Air Corps inventory—had been unable to meet the specified airspeed of 400 miles per hour at any altitude and the climb to 20,000 feet was over a minute slower than expected. The problem stemmed from the increased weight of armor and armament and limited power production from the F2 engines. Of particular note was that the climbing test had to be abandoned at 26,000 when the Carburetor Air Temperature exceeded 60 degrees Celsius and that Louis H. Siblisky, who prepared the report, indicated the inter-cooling was insufficient even in level flight at 20,000 when under Military and Rated Power settings.

The other two reports were the results of the modified P-38E #41-2009 test flight; one was the test flight data and pilot notes, the other was the report from the investigation of the turbo failure which ended the flight.

The flight did not follow the full acceptance test profile but instead focused on general handling characteristics with the new wing, radiator installations, and center nacelle changes including the temporary canopy. The pilot--Kelsey assumed it was probably Virden--noted all the aircraft handling to be positive and equal to the standard P-38E in most respects but that full performance and stall tests would need to be completed to make a direct comparison.

The results of the dive tests were fantastic. In a series of four powered dives the airplane achieved progressively faster maximum speeds and according to the test pilot never experienced any indication of the diving tendency and tail flutter of the standard airplanes. The maximum speeds, when corrected for atmospheric conditions and compressibility errors were calculated for each dive as follows:

1) 532 mph (0.745 Mach)
2) 546 mph (0.760 Mach)
3) 549 mph (0.760 Mach)
4) 551 mph (0.761 Mach)

The pilot noted that at around approximately 0.64 Mach the ailerons responded poorly and that prior to 0.7 Mach lost their effectiveness. This was neither a surprise nor a real problem as the 4412 outer wings had a lower critical speed than the new inner wing section and the P-38 already had a “No Spins” restriction in place so pilots were ordered to avoid large aileron deflection during dives anyway.

Although Lockheed had intended the tests to continue until the final dive speed limit was attained the flight was cut short after the left turbo-supercharger catastrophically failed in flight. The pilot made a successful recovery and landed #009 on a single engine but the airplane was badly damaged and needed extensive repairs.

The accident report revealed that one of the ducting seals in the left leading edge inter-cooler channels failed. They exact reason for the failure was unknown but the post-accident examination led the investigators to suspect that poor initial fitment was exacerbated by High-G pullouts after the dives which further weakened the seal. A sudden change in load due to turbulence during a climb finally caused the seal to fail which resulted in a sudden drop in manifold pressure. The automatic pressure regulator attempted to compensate by increasing the exhaust pressure to the turbine, which in turn caused an over-speed condition and subsequent turbo failure and explosion.

Pieces of the exploded turbo were found throughout a large portion of the aircraft. There was indication that several pieces had ricocheted off the armored plate behind the pilot. If the armor had not been installed it is likely that the pilot would have been killed and the aircraft lost.

The investigation concluded with several recommendations:

1) New inter-cooler installations be investigated; and/or
2) Better duct joining methods be developed and used
3) An automatic turbo-supercharger over-speed regulator be installed which will automatically open the waste-gate in the event of turbine run-away.
4) That the turbo-supercharger wells in each boom be integrally armored to protect the pilot and aircraft in the event of catastrophic failure.
5) Installation of a backup electrical generator, preferably on the right side engine, to ensure continued power in the event of left-engine failure.

In light of both the 009 accident and the inadequate charge air cooling noted in the reports on 983, Maj. Kelsey drafted an order to the effect that examination of alternate inter-cooler installations be immediately added to the scope of the P-38 Improvement Program under High Priority with provision that it only be included in the P-38F development so long as it does not delay the scheduled production start date. The other recommendations from the accident report he included on the order under Normal Priority—that they be investigated if practicable in current production timelines without impacting High and Urgent items.

With the order drafted and signed, he sent it on to his superiors for Approval and dissemination.
 
...
The results of the dive tests were fantastic. In a series of four powered dives the airplane achieved progressively faster maximum speeds and according to the test pilot never experienced any indication of the diving tendency and tail flutter of the standard airplanes. The maximum speeds, when corrected for atmospheric conditions and compressibility errors were calculated for each dive as follows:

1) 532 mph (0.745 Mach)
2) 546 mph (0.760 Mach)
3) 549 mph (0.760 Mach)
4) 551 mph (0.761 Mach)

The pilot noted that at around approximately 0.64 Mach the ailerons responded poorly and that prior to 0.7 Mach lost their effectiveness. This was neither a surprise nor a real problem as the 4412 outer wings had a lower critical speed than the new inner wing section and the P-38 already had a “No Spins” restriction in place so pilots were ordered to avoid large aileron deflection during dives anyway.
...

Could you please state the altitude where the listed dive speeds were achieved?
 
Ch.4a - Summary of Dives from 12/18/1941
Could you please state the altitude where the listed dive speeds were achieved?
12/18/1941
Dive Tests of A/C #41-2009


Dive#. Altitude | Pressure Altitude | Indicated Airspeed | Equivalent Airspeed | True Airspeed | Mach
  1. 18175' | 17478' | 418 mph | 405 mph | 532 mph | 0.745
  2. 16250' | 15597' | 442 mph | 429 mph | 546 mph | 0.76
  3. 15000' | 14372' | 452 mph | 440 mph | 549 mph | 0.76
  4. 14500' | 13881' | 457 mph | 445 mph | 551 mph | 0.761
*NOTE: Equivalent Airspeed would likely not appear on the report as it wasn't really used at the time. Also, I used an online aviation calculator to get these numbers which uses 1973 standard altitude pressures so the exact numbers may be slightly off what a contemporary report would read ITTL. I also realized that I brought the dives too low if they had actually started at 30,000 feet. I will go back and change the narrative to start at a lower altitude. Future tests will likely take place at higher altitudes and end above 20,000 feet.
 
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Thanks for the new updates EverKing. Again very absorbing and interesting. It's a lot of fun to read about the P-38s' OTL flaws being investigated and possibly being worked out earlier in your ATL. And your realistic narrative style makes it seem like one is reading an actual history.
 
Thanks, @Draconis! As I am sure you have figured out, I have a passion for aviation and especially for the P-38. I haven't done any creative writing in over a decade so I am still trying to get back into the swing of it but my goal for this ATL is to try to capture the contemporary "Voice" of the main actors as accurately as possible.
 
Very impressive analysis.

While an improved P-38 would dramatically change the course of the war, it could affect bomber losses and change the overall numbers of P-38s v. P-51s.

The impact of the timing of the NACA report hints at the huge impact timing and luck can have on historical events.
 
While an improved P-38 would dramatically change the course of the war, it could affect bomber losses and change the overall numbers of P-38s v. P-51s.
This is my general assessment as well, as I summarized in the OP. The P-51 was a highly desirable plane and I do not see it being ignored without some "hand waving" going on. Ultimately, I am not sure how yet how the NACA modifications will end up playing out ITTL. An earlier, more effective, long-range escort with have a positive impact on bomber survival but the specific details are still to be determined. Already, I am introducing the core-type inter-cooler earlier than I had intended but they are justified and necessary given the latest flight tests that Kelsey was reviewing in the last narrative post. Who knows how everything else will play out?
 
Just discovered this gem. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it is a design analysis of the P-38 by none other than Hall Hibbard!
http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/P38/P38_Av_4408_DA.html

Of particular interest is his description of the "gondola-type fuselage" :openedeyewink:

Of particular interest is the reference to the cockpit heater, as though heat came out of it. Also, the reference to first use of smooth flush-riveted butt-jointed panels disregards a Hall flying boat of 1931, and Howard Hughes' H-1 racer. There seems to be two first 400 mph fighters, the P-38 and F4U.

Regarding to the use of the P-38 as a bomber escort, history indicates that the Med seems to have got priority over the ETO.
 
Yes, it seems Hibbard took a few liberties with precedent. Although he could defend his statements with some simple qualifiers, "first mass produced," "first military airplane," etc. As for the 400mph fighter, my recollection is that the P-38 was first overall but F4U was the first single-engine fighter to hit it.

ITTL, Med will be first as it was OTL. Bomber escort in the 8th wasn't seriously looked at until until 1943 and this timeline won't alter that.
 
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