Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Kellan Sullivan, May 14, 2019.
Well, there's an interesting scenario *thinks about this*
Yes, Jogaila has a son to protect and IOTL birth of his sons caused him to be more active. ITTL Jogaila will recover from depression faster.
Yes, but these people were killed by Sigismund before he was imprisoned. Even Croatian parliament was ambushed by Sigismund and Nick II during this event:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sabor_of_Križevci, so it's really up to Garai who will gain Hungarian throne. Sigismund fell into quarell with Wenceslas IV also during his imprisonment (Wenceslas was imprisoned himself and called Sigismund to help him offering Sigismund the title of the Imperial vicar and recognition of Sigismund's right to succeed Wenceslas in Bohemia, Sigismund failed to save his elder brother, so Wenceslas became pissed off and reconciliated with Sigismund only in 1410's), so Bohemians aren't going to pay Jogaila for anything. County of Luxembourg was ruled by Jobst of Moravia, who also ruled Brandenburg (mortgaged to him by Sigismund) and I doubt if he'd be willing to pay for Sigismund. Sigismund's fate is in Jogaila's hands ITTL, so he should be grateful if he stays alive. Hungarians wouldn't be a problem with the formation of PU, Poles would be, because they lost a lot during rule of Louis. Although after Krewo act (annexation of Lithuania) they felt confident enough to enter the PU again, because Polish nobility called Elizabeth Bonifacia ("heiress of Hungary"). Sigismund, after loss of Hungary has no land to rule on his own until Jobst dies, so he can't meddle with TO.
No, Svitrigaila was the youngest brother of Jogaila. The one whose son was elected as a king of Bohemia in 1420's (not 30's) was Kaributas, another brother of Jogaila.
It would also count with daughter surviving.
Siggie and his brother REALLY didn't get on. Or was it more a case of Siggie was kinda too busy dealing with his own shit to help Wenzel?
How about a remarriage for Siggie to Giovanna of Durazzo (OTL Giovanna II). It COULD shore up his claim in Hungary, as well as be a warning shot for Lassie about attacking him. Its a bit of a stretch, I'll admit. But besides him marrying a surviving widowed sister-in-law (Richardis of Sweden), I can't think of a decent replacement wife for an earlier remarriage for Siggie.
It was due to Siggie being imprisoned himself, so he couldn't help Wenzel with anything. I think that at the beginning of the rule of both brothers the relationship was quite good, than Wenzel acted like a fool (he blamed Sigismund for not helping him, while Sigismund was imprisoned, so lack of help didn't come out of Sigismund's bad will), and that they reconciliated. Lassie had absolute control over his sister's marriage, he wouldn't agree to marry her to Sigismund. Sigismund promised to remarry to Barbara after her father saved his life, so I think he will stick to the promise still.
Have Charles of Anjou and Peter The III of Aragon have the duel they planned to have OTL to settle the question of who owned Sicily. Charles wins. Have Jadwiga get a Son and Ladislaus of Anjou-Durazzo get the Hungarian throne.
If Jadwiga gets a son, Ladislaus of Durazzo has rather limited prospect of getting Hungarian throne. He'd get it if Louis didn't have children at all.
Then Louis doesn't have children, Hedwig goes as OTL, and *bam* Second Angevin Empire.
If Louis didn't have children, Hedwig wouldn't exist. She was his daughter. But the Second Angevin Empire would happen in this situation.
When did Barbie's dad save Siggie's life. Before or after 1399?
Before, it was after the battle of Nicopolis, if I remember correctly.
Well, that sucks then.
If Jogaila were to remarry, who might he wed? We've already excluded Anna of Celje from the list. And are these kids going to have rights to Poland as well as Lithuania? Or only Lithuania?
Jogaila's kids from second marriage will end up in the shaky position ITTL. Lithuania was sort of annexed to Poland (word "applicare" used in the Krewo act meant to incorporate) and Vytautas was an vassal of Jogaila, so kids will be entitled to the right to the fief of Polish crown called "Lithuania" (from the legal POV it looked like this until 1440), but not to succeed in Cracow (unless they have Piast blood). I think that Jogaila wouldn't remarry until he met Elżbieta Granowska, with whom Jogaila felt in love. Many things depend on Wladek Jr's personality and physical health. How do you imagine Wladek Jr as a person?
Perhaps more in the mould of his Piast forebears than Jogaila's OTL descendants? Or would that be asking too much?
Also, what would the consequences be if Jogaila and Hedwig's fates were reversed? She gives birth to a surviving child in 1399, but Jogaila ends up dead shortly thereafter (could be as a result of his conflicts with his brothers or something as stupid as a fall from a horse).
No, it wouldn't. I think that he could be an fan of Casimir III the Great and be similar in personality to him. We should also think about his Capetian and Anjou forebears. If Jogaila's and Hedwig's fates were reversed hmmm……..she would rule Poland on her own, and I think that she could remarry in order to secure her sons position. Also she would strive towards full incorporation of Lithuania to Poland after Vorskla.
Any suggestions for a replacement husband?
Could he be a continuator of the despotic absolutism of Cas? Or will it be too hard to regain royal privileges Lajos of Hungary granted to the nobility?
After refreshing my memory on the subject, an idea dashed in my head. What if Louis Mary remained queen and Siggie became King-Consort, then they have a child, thus securing succession in Poland AND Hungary?
Vytautas, if he would be willing to abandon his wife (he abandoned her IOTL).
Jogaila was breaking priviledges of Lajos constantly during the first half of his rule. Only his ceasing authority after his third, unpopular marriage forced him to grant nobles more priviledges. I think that at that time, continuation of Cas's policy was possible.
So the Polish crown would - in theory - be in better shape than it was by the 1430s OTL then? What sort of powers would this monarch have/"reclaimed" from the Sejm?
Poland-Lithuania lasts longer and there could be mo continual partitions. Poland would become like France and fall to republican revolutions by the 19th and 20th centuries.
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