WI: Elizabeth Woodville is Charles the Bold's niece and Mary of Burgundy's cousin
- Thread starter kasumigenx
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Middleham and the northern estates of the Nevilles were inheritable in male line only so they will go without doubt to George Neville.
The Earldoms of Warwick and Salisbury with all their lands are inheritable through female lines. More than the Westmoreland, troubles can come from the fact who the Countess of Warwick (wife of the Kingmaker) inherited her lands from her niece (daughter of her full brother) as her closest blood relative but had three older half-sisters who were not exactly fine with Anne inheriting everything (but that situation also was long settled so)
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What Percy wants isn't a factor.
He's only recently been brought into the Yorkist fold, him getting an equal cut to Neville wouldn't be good. IMO, just roll with the order I suggested, with Richard being on top, Neville, Percy, and then the crown.
Richard getting a full 50% would also mean displeasing the Nevilles.
Do not work like that. George Neville has right ONLY to the estates tied to male line only. The Earldom of Warwick and its lands BELONG to the Countess and are to be inherited by HER OWN HEIR(ESSE)S AFTER HER OWN DEATH, while Salisbury and its lands are to be assigned/shared by Warwick’s OWN daughters. You need only to follow the laws, and deciding what give to which ONLY WHERE THINGS NEED TO BE SHARED. If the Countess of Warwick also died early then her lands are to be divided between her daughters
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When did I say what stuff Neville would inherit and what not?
This is still Edward "The goddamnit what were you thinking?" IV, ofc he wouldn't follow his own laws.
And Neville trying to NOT get a higher cut is impossible.
Well, is not like Edward liked too much doing that, usually he was pressured in doing this (and not by his wife). With George (who was by miles the worst) out of this is likely who we can prevent the OTL mess who was the Warwick‘s inheritance (situation in which in OTL Edward followed EXACTLY his brothers’ wishes).
The Exeter and Norfolk inheritance were pretty much straight ones (Exeter was attainted and lost all of his possession. The fact who Exeter‘s lands were assigned to his own wife with a remainder to their daughter do not changed the fact who that lands legally do not belonged anymore to him but to Anne (and so was pretty logical who, once she remarried, the inheritance of said lands was extended to Anne’s eventual other children) while Howard refused to be bought off from the Mowbray inheritance, who in the wedding contract was destined to be kept with the husband of the Counets in case of her childless death)
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Bruh what?
Since Clarence isn't in the equation, and Gloucester has some intelligence, we're preventing the mess that was the partition, and I suggested the likeliest (IMO) partition. What's the problem with that?
Where does random knowledge about Norfolk and Exeter come into the Warwick inheritance?
In saying who once Richard and George WERE not involved, the laws were followed.
George Neville will take his part, without receiving anything who belong to his cousins so he do not need to be included in any partitions who will need to be done only on the Salisbury (and Warwick, once the Countess die) inheritances. Seeing them shared 60/40 in favor of Richard with an Earldom each (as they will go in abeyance between the sisters without any royal decision) is pretty likely
@Bob_Jenko we've both made our cases. Seeing as you're the one making the TL, you decide.
I feel like a Judge passing a sentence rn.
Right, thanks to your well thought out arguments and some Googling, I think I've made a decision.
All of Warwick's estates I can find are the estates he received from his father (Neville, some Montagu & Salisbury), his wife's estates (Beauchamp & Despenser Warwick estates), some others I think may have been his father's (Middleham, Sheriff Hutton & Penrith) and the Lordship of Glamorgan. I can see this happening:
George - gets given the male-line stuff. Idk what exactly that was, so I'll say he gets Middleham, Sheriff Hutton, Penrith & Warwick's remaining Montagu lands
Percy - Will probably just settle for the Earldom of Salisbury and its lands. He'll know he's a new ally and can't compete with the King's brother or cousin's son
Richard - Gets the rest, including the Earldom of Warwick (on Anne Beauchamp's death - not by declaring her so) and the Neville lands Salisbury had.
Edward - the Lorship of Glamorgan, though he can maybe let one of the above control it for him with a cut of its profits
Does that sound acceptable?
Looks about right to me, but Richard argued for keeping Middleham IOTL, and the probable reason was that he grew up there (or maybe it's opulence), soo if he tries to get Middleham, Edward might not be fully averse to giving it to him, although it would be legally dodgy.
Upto you if you want to incorporate this.
That would be fully illegal as Middleham was 100% entailed to the male line only and is unlikely who George Neville will renounce to his family’s seat or who the other Nevilles will accept it. Plus legally do not exist any way in which Richard can get any kind of right on Middleham without that being a big punishment for the Nevilles
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Awesome, that'll be how we split it then. While it seems all we talk about is marriages, there's just one more I feel like discussing: the Bonville inheritance in the form of Cecily Bonville. OTL she married the Marquis of Dorset, but he now doesn't exist. She was born in 1460, and Idk who should marry her.
As for the Norfolk inheritance, I've got that covered.
As for the Norfolk inheritance, I've got that covered.
I think someone from the Westmoreland Nevilles would be good, seeing as they could be made into Yorkists through that, and are already related to the Yorks, and are reasonably powerful.
Could work. Especially if there's gonna be some tenuous legalities in regards to the Warwick inheritance. Could keep em happy.
My suggestion's reason was more on the 'make em Yorkists' than what you suggest. I didn't quite understand it, could you elaborate a bit?
Sure. I think someone mentioned further up that some of what became Warwick's inheritance should've gone to the Westmorelands, but Salisbury's father put everything he could on Salisbury rather than his son from his 1st marriage, Westmoreland.
So instead of them kicking up a fuss over trying to make a claim on some of the Warwick stuff (even though tbf it was settled), this could appease them. And yeah, making another family loyal is a must.