When You Wish Upon a Nightmare - WDAS Collapses in the 80s

[MrCarioca]

Hi all,

So... this is a timeline idea I've contemplated on actually doing. I've decided to start it as a side project since it'll take a lot of research if I want things to go as planned.

In case you don't know, IOTL Walt Disney Animation Studios entered a Dark Age after Walt Disney's death in 1966. The Dark Age would span across the 70s and 80s before ultimately entering a Renaissance with "The Little Mermaid". The most notable event in the Dark Age was the release of "The Black Cauldron" in 1985, infamous for almost killing the Disney Studio. "The Great Mouse Detective" ultimately saved the studio's closure and was the main reason why the Renaissance and Little Mermaid even happened.

But what if things went really, really wrong for Walt Disney Animation Studios. So much so that it collapsed in the 1980s?

 

[CrashBandicam]

When You Wish Upon a Nightmare is such a genius name for a "Disney collapses" TL. Anyways, this seems like a interesting TL, and I hope you can do your best on this one! Watched.

 

[MrCarioca]

When You Wish Upon a Nightmare is such a genius name for a "Disney collapses" TL. Anyways, this seems like a interesting TL, and I hope you can do your best on this one! Watched.

Thanks for the support! I can tell you that things will indeed get interesting for Disney here.

 

[MrCarioca]

Prologue

Original release poster for "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs", WDAS's first feature film (1937)​

In 1937, the first full-length cel-animated film was released to theaters. It was Walt Disney's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs". The film's success would lay the foundation for a series of animated films throughout the early 1940s, all of which were successes critically despite bombing at the box office. During World War 2, WDAS helped create propaganda films such as "Victory Through Air Power" and "Saludos Amigos", the latter being a government funded project. What followed was 1950's "Cinderella", another huge success that helped recoup the financial losses of the 1940s. This kickstarted a period known as the Disney Silver Age, most if not all of these films would become regarded as Disney's finest. Despite experiencing a Dark Age through the 1970s-80s following Walt Disney's untimely death, the studio would rebound into an animation Renaissance, signalling more lavish films to come...

...is what I would say if things didn't go horribly for the WDAS following 1966. Walt Disney's death meant that the quality of animated films were no longer up to snuff with what they had been producing up to that point. The inferior Xerox style was a huge factor which played into the declining quality of the 1970s films. The last and only true good use of the Xerox style was in 1967's "The Jungle Book", it was also the last film Walt Disney had major involvement in. Following Jungle Book, all of the 1970s films were financial and critical failures. 1973's "Robin Hood" had its flaws lay bare for all the world to see, its ugly Xerox animation mixed with recycled animation from the richer films was a major criticism, even if it's seen as a cult classic today.

Even before Walt Disney's death, Walt had already begun discussions about shuttering the animation department in favour of both television and theme parks. These talks returned once more when the financial upset was made obvious. The only positives that came from the animation studio at that point were the "Winnie the Pooh" featurettes, they were the only media produced by WDAS that received praise. Oddly enough, a full length Pooh feature never came to fruition.

In conclusion, the films released by WDAS up to 1979 had ugly and scratchy Xerox animation, declining quality which couldn't compare to those released prior, and there were talks of shutting down the animation divison for good. WDAS could only hope that their film in production "The Fox and the Hound", slated for a Christmas 1980 release, could perform postively.

---

List of films released by Walt Disney Animation Studios up to 1979:
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Pinocchio (1940)
Fantasia (1940)
Dumbo (1941)
Bambi (1942)
Saludos Amigos (1943)
The Three Caballeros (1945)
Make Mine Music (1946)
Fun and Fancy Free (1947)
Melody Time (1948)
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad (1949)
Cinderella (1950)
Alice in Wonderland (1951)
Peter Pan (1953)
Lady and the Tramp (1955)
Sleeping Beauty (1959)
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961)
The Sword in the Stone (1963)
The Jungle Book (1967)
The Aristocats (1970)
Robin Hood (1973)
The Rescuers (1977)
The Fox and the Hound (upcoming with a 1980 release window)

 

[Nivek]

Turner with the wallet ready: not on my guard

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Can’t wait to see where this goes! Watched.

 

[Sonny912]

Oooh this will be bad for animated television shows. Eisner and katzenburg could return to Paramount or go to warner bros and make all the reinissance movies but no disney in the 90's means no disney afternoon, no disney afternoon means cartoons could be stuck with limited budgets, cheesy, predictable plots and flat characters and nickelodeon and cartoon network might not create their own in house studios and rely on reruns of older ones instead.

 

[Nivek]

Oooh this will be bad for animated television shows. Eisner and katzenburg could return to Paramount or go to warner bros and make all the reinissance movies but no disney in the 90's means no disney afternoon, no disney afternoon means cartoons could be stuck with limited budgets, cheesy, predictable plots and flat characters and nickelodeon and cartoon network might not create their own in house studios and rely on reruns of older ones instead.

Iirc nicktoons existed because the sucess of CN and turner riposte with the cartoon cartoons,so that would still happen

 

[Otakuninja2006]

Prologue

View attachment 892280
Original release poster for "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs", WDAS's first feature film (1937)​

In 1937, the first full-length cel-animated film was released to theaters. It was Walt Disney's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs". The film's success would lay the foundation for a series of animated films throughout the early 1940s, all of which were successes critically despite bombing at the box office. During World War 2, WDAS helped create propaganda films such as "Victory Through Air Power" and "Saludos Amigos", the latter being a government funded project. What followed was 1950's "Cinderella", another huge success that helped recoup the financial losses of the 1940s. This kickstarted a period known as the Disney Silver Age, most if not all of these films would become regarded as Disney's finest. Despite experiencing a Dark Age through the 1970s-80s following Walt Disney's untimely death, the studio would rebound into an animation Renaissance, signalling more lavish films to come...

...is what I would say if things didn't go horribly for the WDAS following 1966. Walt Disney's death meant that the quality of animated films were no longer up to snuff with what they had been producing up to that point. The inferior Xerox style was a huge factor which played into the declining quality of the 1970s films. The last and only true good use of the Xerox style was in 1967's "The Jungle Book", it was also the last film Walt Disney had major involvement in. Following Jungle Book, all of the 1970s films were financial and critical failures. 1973's "Robin Hood" had its flaws lay bare for all the world to see, its ugly Xerox animation mixed with recycled animation from the richer films was a major criticism, even if it's seen as a cult classic today.

Even before Walt Disney's death, Walt had already begun discussions about shuttering the animation department in favour of both television and theme parks. These talks returned once more when the financial upset was made obvious. The only positives that came from the animation studio at that point were the "Winnie the Pooh" featurettes, they were the only media produced by WDAS that received praise. Oddly enough, a full length Pooh feature never came to fruition.

In conclusion, the films released by WDAS up to 1979 had ugly and scratchy Xerox animation, declining quality which couldn't compare to those released prior, and there were talks of shutting down the animation divison for good. WDAS could only hope that their film in production "The Fox and the Hound", slated for a Christmas 1980 release, could perform postively.

---

List of films released by Walt Disney Animation Studios up to 1979:
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Pinocchio (1940)
Fantasia (1940)
Dumbo (1941)
Bambi (1942)
Saludos Amigos (1943)
The Three Caballeros (1945)
Make Mine Music (1946)
Fun and Fancy Free (1947)
Melody Time (1948)
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad (1949)
Cinderella (1950)
Alice in Wonderland (1951)
Peter Pan (1953)
Lady and the Tramp (1955)
Sleeping Beauty (1959)
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961)
The Sword in the Stone (1963)
The Jungle Book (1967)
The Aristocats (1970)
Robin Hood (1973)
The Rescuers (1977)
The Fox and the Hound (upcoming with a 1980 release window)

Can't wait to see where this goes!

Oooh this will be bad for animated television shows. Eisner and katzenburg could return to Paramount or go to warner bros and make all the reinissance movies

Hopefully they don't have a falling out.

but no disney in the 90's means no disney afternoon, no disney afternoon means cartoons could be stuck with limited budgets, cheesy, predictable plots and flat characters and nickelodeon and cartoon network might not create their own in house studios and rely on reruns of older ones instead.

Oh I'm sure someone will buy the IP and stuff.......and I think this would only inspire the remnants of the Western animation industry to get their shit together.

Iirc nicktoons existed because the sucess of CN and turner riposte with the cartoon cartoons,so that would still happen

The Nicktoons actually came a year before CN launched.

 

[MrCarioca]

Chapter 1: The Fox and the Hound

​

Even though the film rights to the namesake 1967 novel had been purchased since said novel won the Dutton Animal Book Award, production on "The Fox and the Hound" wouldn't actually begin until 1977. If "The Fox and the Hound" was notable for anything, it would be the transition from the old veteran animators like the Nine Old Men to a new generation of animators such as John Musker, Ron Clements and Tim Burton. One of these young upstarting animators was Donald Virgil Bluth, or simply Don Bluth. Bluth and his team constantly butted heads with the veteran animators on how to handle certain scenes, Reitherman himself was claimed by Bluth to be stern and out of touch. It was somewhat expected what happened next, as Bluth along with Gary Goldman, John Pomeroy, John Musker and Ron Clements would hand in their resignation papers on Bluth's 42nd birthday. Bluth would go on to form his own animation studio and produce many notable films such as "The Secret of Nimh" and "An American Tail".

Despite the departure of notable talent, the studio head Ron Miller refused to delay the film's release date and instead rushed production. This resulted in the final product being lackluster and having clashing changes in tone, most notably the song "Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo". The song was stated to be the prime example of a jarring tone change, occuring directly after a more emotional scene in the film.

The plotline revolves around Tod the Fox and Copper the Hound Dog meeting and befriending each other as toddlers. As the two grow up, hunter Amos Slade trains Copper to become a hunting dog and teams him up with his pet dog Chief. Tod however is accident prone and causes trouble within Amos' house, prompting Amos and Chief to hunt him down. When the two grow up, Tod sneaks over to visit Copper, who harshly claims that their friendship is long over and Tod should leave before Chief is alerted. That is exactly what happens and after a long chase, Chief is knocked over by a train and suffers from a broken leg. Tod's kind owner Widow Tweed comes to the decision that such an environment was no longer safe for Tod, she ultimately sends Tod away in the forest. The film climxaes into one final battle between Tod and Copper, displaying how bad their relationship has become.

The film did alright financially but received mixed receptions. Many praised the film's emotional core and the message about the importance of friendship, and yet the jarring tone shifts, lackluster plot and the tone-killing song "Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo" was so bad that it became the film's major criticism. Other criticisms included the film not bringing much new to the table and its old-school story. "The Fox and the Hound" would premiere on Home Video by 1982. It seemed like smooth sailing from here on out for WDAS, and yet the road to disaster had already been paved. The next film wouldn't make matters better for WDAS.

Release Date: December 18th 1980

Cast: Same as OTL

 

[PokeNirvash]

"Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo"

I think Hanna-Barbera's gonna sue somebody. 😅

The POD being Ron Miller's decision to rush production on The Fox and the Hound is a sensible place to mark the beginning of the end for TTL's Disney. I look forward to seeing what knock-on effects result from this (barring the inevitable attention brought to Charo's body of work, of course).

 

[MrCarioca]

I think Hanna-Barbera's gonna sue somebody. 😅

I mean that song was originally planned to be in OTL's Fox and the Hound, perhaps some legal issues could come out of it, in-unvierse it'll probably be ruled as sheer coincidence.

The POD being Ron Miller's decision to rush production on The Fox and the Hound is a sensible place to mark the beginning of the end for TTL's Disney. I look forward to seeing what knock-on effects result from this (barring the inevitable attention brought to Charo's body of work, of course).

The Fox and the Hound being rushed is definitely the cause of it's decline in quality here, spoilers for the next chapter but a certain other film would meet the same fate here.

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Great first chapter!

Even though the film rights to the namesake 1967 novel, production on "The Fox and the Hound" wouldn't actually begin until 1977.

Could you make tweak this passage? I found this to be structured weirdly.

It was somewhat expected what happened next, as Bluth along with Gary Goldman, John Pomeroy, John Musker and Ron Clements would hand in their resignation papers on Bluth's 42nd birthday.

Very interesting to see John Musker and Ron Clements joining Don Bluth in leaving Disney. I'm curious if The Great Mouse Detective would be made by Bluth here as it was Clements who suggested adapting the Basil of Baker Street books IOTL.

Cast: Same as OTL

What about the cranes voiced by Cher and Phil Harris that sang "Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo"?

 

[MrCarioca]

Very interesting to see John Musker and Ron Clements joining Don Bluth in leaving Disney. I'm curious if The Great Mouse Detective would be made by Bluth here as it was Clements who suggested adapting the Basil of Baker Street books IOTL.

Spoiler: About the Great Mouse Detective

The Great Mouse Detective will still be made by Disney in some capacity

What about the cranes voiced by Cher and Phil Harris that sang "Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo"?

Yes both of them voice the cranes here.

 

[PokeNirvash]

I mean that song was originally planned to be in OTL's Fox and the Hound, perhaps some legal issues could come out of it, in-unvierse it'll probably be ruled as sheer coincidence.

I imagine the different spelling plus the second "Doobie" would aid in allowing Disney to avoid coughing up more cash than they might wind up settling for, in that case.

What about the cranes voiced by Cher and Phil Harris that sang "Scoobie Doobie Doobie Doo, Let Your Body Turn to Goo"?

What @MrCarioca said, only it's Charo instead of Cher.

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

What @MrCarioca said, only it's Charo instead of Cher.

Oh! I must have misremembered that.

 

[MrCarioca]

I'm currently in the crosshairs of deciding whether to split 1985 into two chapters or not, since the collapse will cover a lot. As for the next chapter, I'm currently planning to have it come out in a week or so

 

[Otakuninja2006]

I'm currently in the crosshairs of deciding whether to split 1985 into two chapters or not, since the collapse will cover a lot. As for the next chapter, I'm currently planning to have it come out in a week or so

I think you should split it if that's the case.

 

[X_X]

Maybe Secret of Nimh does better here, setting up a longer Golden Age for Bluth?

 

[kirbopher15]

Maybe Secret of Nimh does better here, setting up a longer Golden Age for Bluth?

We’re in the Disney dark age with this timeline