What if the Titanic never sank?

RNG

Banned
There is a fan theory about the film Titanic, whereby Jack is a time traveller. It is supposed that Jack saves Rose from suicide so that the ship is not stopped and therefore misses the Iceberg. However why would Jack want the Titanic to sink, what terrible alternate timeline is there that he would die to try and divert, or is Jack just evil? What would happen if the Titanic never sank?
 
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Titanic continues regular Atlantic crossings until WW I and in the meantime another ship will have to tragically reveal the lifeboat issue, probably Empress of Ireland or the Lusitania. In WW I she becomes a troop ship or hospital ship and after that, assuming she avoids being sunk by a U-boat, resumes her luxury ocean liner role. Titanic and Olympic, assuming Gigantic (known IOTL as Britannic) is still sunk, serve as White Star Line's reliable work horses throughout the 1920s. The White Star Line-Cunard merger will be a 50-50 thing without the stain of the Titanic disaster. Olympic will probably still be scrapped around 1936-'37ish, leaving Titanic as the only survivor of her class and she might get mothballed. If she hangs on until 1939, she'll be a troop transport or hospital ship again, and by the end of WW II (again assuming no fatal encounters with U-boats) she'll have a reputation. Floating hotel is her best case scenario. Worst case scenario is that she'll get scrapped with parts of her winding up in hotels.
 
Titanik doesn`t sink, Jacob Astor, Isa Strauss, Benjamin Gugenheim survive and oppose creation of Federal reserve. More on this link
So FED can not guarantee Antante (British and French) loans, what was main driver for USA joining the war, to prevent massive bankrupties of New York and London banks (JP Morgan, Rotschilds...). No USA in Great war means peace in 1917., no October revolution, no communism, no nazism. Also, with Ottoman empire surviving, no Saudi Arabia, no wahabism, no Al Qaida, no ISIL...
Also, no FED means no Keynes, no petro-dolar (paper for oil), nor quantative easing...keeping gold standard or return of bimetalism (gold-silver).
FACT: JP Morgan funded/built the Titanic [1]
FACT: JP Morgan was booked on the voyage but canceled at the last second.
FACT: Friend of JP Morgan, Milton Hersey, also canceled at the last moment and survived to build the Hersey food empire.
FACT: There were no red flares on board to signal to any boats for rescue. Only white flares that signal a party and that everything is okay.
FACT: It was the first ship of its kind with the ability to seal decks electromagnetically which could also seal people below deck.
FACT: The Captain Edward Smith was one of the most decorated Captains of his time and would have been out of character by avoiding precautions.
FACT: The author of the book was poisoned to death a couple years after the Titanic sank.
FACT: The Federal Reserve was formed the very next year.
FACT: The Astor Family was one of the richest families in the world and John Astor III opposed the Federal Reserve.
John Jacob Astor IV, the richest man in the world at the time, a friend of Nikola Tesla, was an outspoken opponent of the creation of the Federal Reserve. Astor gained his wealth, in part, as a real estate builder, investor, and inventor. Other prominent Federal Reserve detractors, such as Benjamin Guggenheim and Isa Strauss, also died on board.” [3]

[1]Titanic- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic
[3]JP Morgan Theory- https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1xni4f/did_jp_morgan_build_the_titanic_to_kill_off_the/
 

RNG

Banned
Titanik doesn`t sink, Jacob Astor, Isa Strauss, Benjamin Gugenheim survive and oppose creation of Federal reserve. More on this link
So FED can not guarantee Antante (British and French) loans, what was main driver for USA joining the war, to prevent massive bankrupties of New York and London banks (JP Morgan, Rotschilds...). No USA in Great war means peace in 1917., no October revolution, no communism, no nazism. Also, with Ottoman empire surviving, no Saudi Arabia, no wahabism, no Al Qaida, no ISIL...
Also, no FED means no Keynes, no petro-dolar (paper for oil), nor quantative easing...keeping gold standard or return of bimetalism (gold-silver).
So this means a Central Power victory. Why does Jack hate that so much? Isn't a Central Power victory better than a Allied one?
 

Philip

Donor
Also, with Ottoman empire surviving, no Saudi Arabia, no wahabism, no Al Qaida, no ISIL...

Yeah...That doesn't really follow. Wahhabism was already around, and the OE had already fought one war to take Mecca back from the Saudis. Probably doesn't turn out line OTL, but Wahhabism was already around.
 
Yeah...That doesn't really follow. Wahhabism was already around, and the OE had already fought one war to take Mecca back from the Saudis. Probably doesn't turn out line OTL, but Wahhabism was already around.
When ? That is incorrect. Mecca is on west coast, in Hejaz. Saudis ruled in Nejd.
 
So this means a Central Power victory. Why does Jack hate that so much? Isn't a Central Power victory better than a Allied one?
I would not say a CP victory. There is no September program dream realised for Germany. No new colonies.
In 1917 A-H and Germany were willing to accept status ante quo, with moderate losses for Russia (indipendent Finland, Poland, Lithuania, United Baltic Duchy, romanian Besarabia). At that moment Serbia, Monte Negro, Romania and Albania are occupied by A-H. Nobody wins, no war damages. Not perfect, but happier future than OTL.
Russia was willing to negotiate, but only if western allies accept peace as well. The British and Americans refused, and French followed. Without americans joining war in April 1917, May rebellions in French army would be much more widespread. They could have toppled French government as well.
 
Why would Keynes, a Brit, be directly affected by what happens in America?

I mean, your whole post is American exceptionalism 101, but I didn't get this part specifically.
I did not mean Keynes would not be born ;), but that FDR`s Keynesian New Deal would be drastically changed, without possibility of US to loan money from FED. So either there would be a longer Depression, or FDR would, just like Lincoln, go back to greenback, not backed by gold or silver. This would mean a significant devaluation.

PS I`m not american. I`m from Austro-Hungary :angel:
 
I did not mean Keynes would not be born ;), but that FDR`s Keynesian New Deal would be drastically changed, without possibility of US to loan money from FED. So either there would be a longer Depression, or FDR would, just like Lincoln, go back to greenback, not backed by gold or silver. This would mean a significant devaluation.

PS I`m not american. I`m from Austro-Hungary :angel:
FDR's New Deal began three years before Keynes formulated his economic theory.
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
I don't remember which thread brought this up, but no sinking of the Titanic means that British Columbia has a second major urban centre on the coast. There was a (US born, IIRC) Canadian railroad tycoon funding the expansion of a port somewhere there - the project died with him on the Titanic.
 

Philip

Donor
When ? That is incorrect. Mecca is on west coast, in Hejaz. Saudis ruled in Nejd.
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud formed an alliance in 1744. In 1803, Saud's grandson, Saud bin Abdul-Aziz bin Muhammad bin Saud, captured the Hejaz, including the Two Holy Cities. The Saudis held them for about a decade until the forces of Muhammad Ali Pasha recaptured them on behalf of the Ottomans.
 
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SsgtC

Banned
A lot of your "facts" are straight up wrong. Let's go down the list.

1: JP Morgan did NOT fund or build Titanic (Titanic is spelled with an "ic" btw, not "ik"). He owned International Mercantile Marine. Which was the parent company of White Star Line. However, he had zero day to day control of White Star and provided no funding. In fact, he used White Star to fund his other businesses. When it came to building the Olympic-class, White Star funded them with their own cash reserves.

2. JP Morgan was NOT booked to sail on Titanic. He was attending a financial conference in Continental Europe at the time that did not end for over a week after Titanic had sailed. The idea he booked passage and then cancelled at the last minute because they were planning to sink the ship is an absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theory.

3. Milton Hershey (again, check your spelling) was booked to sail on Titanic. But due to business matters, had to sail early. He in fact sailed from Nice on the Amerika on April 6th. A week before Titanic departed for her Maiden Voyage. So again, nothing but an absurd conspiracy theory.

4. There was no international standard for what color flares should be to indicate distress. On British ships, white was the generally accepted color, as flares with color in them were considered to be "house" signals. You're really trying the conspiracy angle, aren't you?

5. No, Titanic could most definitely NOT seal her decks electromagnetically. The watertight doors were purely mechanical in nature, operated by a cog system. The doors could be shut electrically by throwing a switch on the bridge which in turn activated electric motors to lower the doors. Or they could be closed locally by a float switch with would activate when water entered the compartment, again activating an electric motor to lower the door. Or they could be closed (and opened) by means of a manual crank located at each door.

As for your claim that they could trap people below decks, utter hogwash. Look at a diagram of her watertight subdivisions. The compartments did not have extend all the way to the top of the hull. They also were not sealed at the top in any way (this explains how water could spread to successive compartments). There are also stairwells in each compartment that allowed access to the decks above. So no, the watertight compartments and doors could not trap people below.

6. Really? He DID take precautions. For one, he delayed his turn West to bring Titanic to a more southerly course in order to AVOID the heavier than normal reported ice conditions. The night Titanic struck the berg, the weather was absolutely clear and the sea was flat calm. No Captain in his right mind would slow down in those conditions. Most would speed up! Oh, one other note, Smith did warn his bridge crew that if a haze developed, to slow the ship.

7. What book are you talking about? Several books were written where the premise is a large ocean liner hitting an iceberg and sinking with large loss of life. One of the authors of just such a book actually died on the Titanic. One other one (and the one I think you're talking about) died of an accidental overdose of an anti-convulsant. Not exactly poisoned in some vauge plot to keep him from revealing the "truth."

As for the rest of your post, it's more just blatant conspiracy theory. And honestly, it all falls apart once you realise that almost all of the WWI loans given to Europe were defaulted on and not repaid.
 
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In WW I she becomes a troop ship or hospital ship and after that, assuming she avoids being sunk by a U-boat, resumes her luxury ocean liner role. Titanic and Olympic, assuming Gigantic (known IOTL as Britannic) is still sunk, serve as White Star Line's reliable work horses throughout the 1920s.

The third ship was always meant to be named Britannic. Gigantic is an urban legend.
 

Deleted member 2186

There is a fan theory about the film Titanic, whereby Jack is a time traveller. It is supposed that Jack saves Rose from suicide so that the ship is not stopped and therefore misses the Iceberg. However why would Jack want the Titanic to sink, what terrible alternate timeline is there that he would die to try and divert, or is Jack just evil? What would happen if the Titanic never sank?
What if: Titanic Never Sank in 1912
 
Yeah...That doesn't really follow. Wahhabism was already around, and the OE had already fought one war to take Mecca back from the Saudis. Probably doesn't turn out line OTL, but Wahhabism was already around.

Yeah, but it was closely associated with the Saud family. Wahhabism would not gain the traction or influence if the Sauds did not hold Arabia. Hell, the Rishidi (the other big Arabian family and Ottoman ally) along with the Ottomans would ensure they would be wiped out this time most liekly.
 

Philip

Donor
Hell, the Rishidi (the other big Arabian family and Ottoman ally) along with the Ottomans would ensure they would be wiped out this time most liekly.
Except 1912 is too late for the Al Rashid. The Saudis had already retaken Riyadh in 1902. In 1906, the Saudis decisively defeated the combined Ottoman-Rashidi forces in al-Qassim. By 1912, al Rashid is ruled by a 12 year old boy, Saʿūd bin ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz, and the House was in disarray.
 

Deleted member 2186

Except 1912 is too late for the Al Rashid. The Saudis had already retaken Riyadh in 1902. In 1906, the Saudis decisively defeated the combined Ottoman-Rashidi forces in al-Qassim. By 1912, al Rashid is ruled by a 12 year old boy, Saʿūd bin ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz, and the House was in disarray.
What does this have to do with the Titanic surviving.
 

Philip

Donor
What does this have to do with the Titanic surviving.

Follow the quotes back upstream. Ozzymandias claimed that Titanic would butterfly away Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia. CountDVB asserted that it would result in Al Rashid crushing Al Saud. Neither are correct.
 
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