Status
Not open for further replies.
map
You: "Wait you're saying He can actually make a map? His last attempt were terrible!"

Me: "Enough Hours in MS Paint and anything will look like Mona Lisa."
paint map.png


But yeah, I'm only really showing the major factions that play an importance worth noting, one day I might get into the brain-smashing complexity of Burgundy vs France and the HRE

And here are the colors for people that haven't kept up

Lavender: Leifrvalde (Vinland)

Gold: The Russ

Purple: Scandinavia

Dark purple: Byzantine Empire

Green: Brittania Imperium

Light Yellow: Kingdom of Iberia

Blue Grey: Holy Christian Kingdom of Africa

Brown: Icelandic Allthing

Blue: Mayan City states
 
Last edited:
No worries.
This made me look at that beautiful map one more time. A Rus stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea, beautiful!

Seeing as the wind and ocean currents take you West from Europe to North America, if I understand correctly, does this mean Iceland will continue to rule Greenland?
Because by now Leifsvralde far outranks Iceland in term of wealth, population and ships, so they are more powerful.

I Guess the question is, why would you care about Greenland when there is plenty of land in every direction but East for Leifsvralde?

Something that has been floating in the back of my mind regarding this TL is how the TTL's Varangian Guard(serving in Spain) might lead Christendom(both catholic and orthodox) to view the Norse, whom until recently was pagan, as sort of "noble Savages". I say this because they've helped out a great deal just by being complete assholes to the Taifas and other Moslem entities in general, which in the eyes of the pope must certainly feel like "his team" let loose a bunch of wild dogs that only attacks his enemies.

Might this be something, that while Norse heresy remains just that, it becomes one of the more endearing blasphemers, "the non-believers(Norse paganism) who defeated our mortal enemies the infidels(Islam)?"
I know the Norse at this point is almost fully Christian, but I suspect that they might be viewed as "recent converts" and therefore not as Christian as the good people of Southern Europe.
 
Seeing as the wind and ocean currents take you West from Europe to North America, if I understand correctly, does this mean Iceland will continue to rule Greenland?

The Leifrish (yes that is what I'm calling them ;)) sold Greenland to the Icelanders because they gained little to nothing by owning it and given the jumping from Leifsbudir/Thorkellsborg straight to Iceland using the Gulf Stream as a boost it made Greenland somewhat insignificant with the exception to the rare cases where Ships would stop in Greenland for Repairs or because the weather got too bad.

Because by now Leifsvralde far outranks Iceland in term of wealth, population and ships, so they are more powerful.

I Guess the question is, why would you care about Greenland when there is plenty of land in every direction but East for Leifsvralde?

Exactly, the Leifrish don't care about some Frozen little Isle that has little to no value. So unless Iceland gets in a war with Leifrvalde (stupid Idea) I don't think Greenland is going to be ruled under the Paramount Chief of all Leifrvalde

which in the eyes of the pope must certainly feel like "his team" let loose a bunch of wild dogs that only attacks his enemies.

The Byzantines have been doing this for a while, they would probably just see them as any other Mercenary thats in it for the loot and land.

I know the Norse at this point is almost fully Christian, but I suspect that they might be viewed as "recent converts" and therefore not as Christian as the good people of Southern Europe.

Well it's almost been over 150 years since the King of Denmark converted to Christianity (at the end of a Holy Roman Imperial blade I might add) so I doubt that would be a big thing.

At this point there are probably just as many Frankish Pagans as there are Norse Pagans
 
But none of the Varangian Guard managed to get crowned as the Byzantine Emperor.

Well that would make an interesting TL in and of itself, that and the first Norse Emperor was given Lisboa and it's surrounding land and was one of the Major figureheads in Reclaiming the Peninsula as well as some of Africa.
 
Sorry about lack of updates, I got job now and jumbling school and work together leaves muuuch less free time then usual. Although I'm hoping to get one out within a day or two

EDIT: also, sorry to those who saw I posted and thought it was an update
 
Last edited:
35
Haven't really been updating a lot, I've been playing around with the idea of sending Spanish colonial Phillipines back into the Chinese Three Kingdoms era and seeing how that goes. Also another reason is I'm working as of late so not a whole lot of free time I guess.
But with the researching needed on both the Philippines and China in their respective times I'm tempted to just throw it all out and just do a Viking Age Orkney ISOT near to the end of the western Roman Empire and such .The Orkney part I did research on for this TL so that makes it not so hard. Which would be better or should I keep working on things I have already started?

Also sorry for the shortness.

1148-1152

In Saeturland, Maple foodstuffs had been undergoing a revolution around this point. A form of hardened creams had become popular in Nawahlid, and many Icelandic merchants had prized the material as well as becoming popular with children. Another invention was the adding of honey to the maple sap while being boiled. Aside from sweet maple products the Ship building industry was still very strong, albeit with a rival industry starting up in Grunnland.

In Hnetaland and Frelsiland, a new export was becoming popular: Nuts. A great many kinds were being used along with Maple Syrup in religious celebrations. The Farming was also producing a surplus that had sold at high prices in the City of Nawahlid that had begun to outgrow Saeturland's agricultural output.

In Scandinavia, Bjarny Thorfinnsson had been engaging trade heavily with the Rus and the Lapps(Sammi) to the North. However in 1149 when he had died of stroke his Empire had begun to fall apart, a trend that was very popular among the Kings that united Scandinavia after their deaths, however unlike the rest Bjarny Thorfinnsson had a plan for his favored child Karl Bjarnysson and had anyone who would attempt to seize the Throne or try and declare independence have spies willing to report on their actions and take their life should it be needed. While after two years of cementing his rule Karl had managed to keep his Father's realm but at the loss of it's former military and economic strength. The Tribes in the Baltic that he subjugated and the ones inland that he did not had begun to show signs of potential hostility.

Karl's response to this was to split his empire into two, With him governing the Western half which included Denmark, Norway, and Sweden while the other half would be governed by the Crown prince and when the Crown Prince would ascend the throne then the next Crown Prince would assume power over the eastern Empire. Technically the divide was purely administrative and it was still one Empire and was to be used as a way to efficiently handle the threats all across the Baltic and Scandinavia.

The Crusades at this point were beginning to go downhill, with Jerusalem becoming lost to Christian control but a center of control still remaining around Acre, Caeseria, Tyre, and Antioch. The Papacy had then looked to the west where the Kingdom of Africa had been waging war against the followers of Islam, however they had been under stress over dealing with powers in Libya and Egypt gaining strength. A plan was set in motion to set up a separate crusade to take out the North African Heathens.

In the Rus, the Cuman auxiliary force had shown potential as they were able to dominate the Volgans; they also were shown their usefulness when Astrakhan had fallen to the Rus and when a huge campaign to conquer the western side of the Volga had been initiated. The Threat of steppe hordes from the east were growing and attempted settlement of vast swathes of land along the frontier were hindered by raids. The state had begun to support a rise in population which had allowed further trade. Large barges carried grain from the south up the river to the central part of the kingdom and many of the large cities. Said grain barges also went south along the sea to the Byzantine Empire where grain was bought at a good price and then the barges would return home with Asiatic goods bought in Constantinople.

In Byzantium, the trade with Rus was very beneficial as it led to the new cheap price of grain which had saved the army much money and allowed for a much more sizable military which had led to a campaign of reclamation of lands taken from Turkic hordes.
The Italian province had also been a source of Grain for feeding the cities of Greece and the army. The Empire was going through an era of rejuvenation as old Roman patriotism among the upper class begun to become popular once again with the prospects of conquering parts of the old Empire being supported by some members of the aristocracy.

In Iberia, King Robert had been ambitious but also a quite unsatisfying ruler with many wanting to depose him and wanting Africa and Iberia to become reunited once again. When Robert had died from poisoned wine King Olaf had marched an army into Iberia and arrested the perpetrators, what happened afterwards is somewhat of a mystery but we know that afterwards Olaf Ragnarsson had recreated the crown of the Western Roman Emperor and drawing inspiration from both Karl Bjarnysson in Scandinavia and the Roman Empire's method of putting the crown prince in a place of power. By making the Crown Prince Lord of Hispania/Iberia (he had tried to use as many Roman names as possible to help cement his legitimacy) it had the benefits of making the title of Western Roman Emperor less of an empty title as well as eliminating the negative effects of a large empire.
 
Hmm I don't read much ISOT TL's, but both the Three Kingdoms w/ Phillipines and Orkney sound cool.
Maps are always great but not a necessity.

As for the update, I like how there is insight in the diet of people, how the butterflies are affecting the Norse culture in more than one way. I speculate that the crusades will be more successful ITTL, but ultimately fail for the same reasons(demographics, internal power struggles). This might even mean Europe stays a backwater for longer, as longer crusades means a longer focus on the Orient. Or maybe the fight keeps going long enough for the Mongols to come and ruin everyone's party.

Rus ITTL is a more united, prosperous and stronger land, which the Mongols will be even more interested in conquering. Question is, does a stronger Rus mean repulse of the Mongols?
You should at some point pitch this TL to a publishing company, because the writing is awesome and the premise promises a vast new world of opportunities!!!
 
Hail Imperator!

I'm hoping you find more inspiration to follow through on this TL since I think on the whole it is the most careful and thoughtful attempt at a Vinland TL I've ever seen. So it would be good to see it roll on. Naturally then I'm alarmed at your ISOT ideas although who knows whether you might work them into something great. But this seems unlikely to me, given the premises. This one is much better.

We at AH are gluttons for maps, and a map every update would surely be gratifying. However--not if it slows you down too much. Better to have the posts and let those of us who really want to see a map at some point or other try our luck at drawing what we think you mean.
 
Okay, I may be helping someone with their own Vinland TL so there is a chance that it could take some time out of things.

I personally don't need one every update but one every 3 or 4 would be nice, or when a major event happens that drastically changes the existing borders.

Well I did kinda have the Rus expand all the way to the Volga so that would kinda be a big difference?

Or maybe the fight keeps going long enough for the Mongols to come and ruin everyone's party.

Unless the Mega-Rus keel over soon (has a larger chance than you think with little ice-age coming) I don't think the Mongols will be any huge threat to anyone in the Mediterranean sphere (Unless they go around the Caspian and through Persia)

You should at some point pitch this TL to a publishing company, because the writing is awesome and the premise promises a vast new world of opportunities!!!

Umm I have no idea how that would even work, I mean I think the guy that did "Cato's Cavalry" did a thing with Amazon but I don't think anyone would be interested, but if you have more information on the subject I'm all ears.
 
Last edited:
36
Okay considering it's been nearly a month since last chapter I might make a map after this given what I said as well about the political changes. Also sorry about the shortness and the lack of anything Vinland/New world and Rus related as there is not a whole lot going on. I'm hoping the extreme changes will be able to sate peoples desires.

Also hooray for the TL being close to it's first birthday (my account has already experienced this).

1153-1157

In Britain, Gruffydd ap Hywel had died with his immediate heirs dying only days after. Immediately crisis plagued the Isles with Scotland regaining independence at least to a small extent with having only a fraction of Scotland proper centered around the North of the country and on Orkney and the Hebrides. it is speculated that only forty three percent of the pre-Welsh domination Anglo-Saxon population were still alive with the majority of them being either being women, the old and the young with only a very little group of men of fighting age leaving Britain with many numerous Celtic kingdoms popping up around the country with the kings being the generals tasked with overseeing the Genocide and Oppression of the English people who then declared independence. The new Kingdoms had been reminiscent of the Celtic Kingdoms that sprung up after the retreat of the Western Roman Empire.

On the Island of Ireland however, a new superpower would arise. Cecil ap Merfyn, the man who had taken control of Ireland through a campaign of blood, betrayal, and trickery was now one of the most powerful men in the British Isles with only the King of Great Ebrauc being more powerful taking control of most of Scotland and all of what was formerly Northumberland, Lancashire and Cumberland. Another Kingdom to rise up in power was the Kingdom of Dumnonia with their west border being the River Severn and the Western border being the Thames, with the city of Londinium being split in two with no crossing the river allowed meant entire families were separated by one river.

In Byzantium, things had been going fairly well for the Empire; Anatolia was slowly being reconquered, the western border with the Bulgars were secure enough, the people were well-fed and the city of Nova Roma was a greater hot bed for trade then it had ever been in hundreds of years. However things in the Italian territory were looking problematic, building of relations with the west and the pope that had been building up for decades were slowly fumbling down. The native Catholic population were unhappy with the Orthodox rulers, so in the Court of Constantinople a decision was made that would change the political demographics of the Mediterranean sea for years to come.
The Isle of Sicily was sold to the Iberian Empire provided the Byzantine merchants would not have to undergo tariffs, would allow people of the Orthodox faith to go unmolested, would enforce a extremely large tariff on all Venetian merchants wanting to trade in Sicily, on certain weeks of the year which would be in the time of perfect sailing all Venetian Merchants would be banned from entering Sicily,and that these terms would have to be uphold for seven years.
The Emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire was very reluctant to give up perfectly good land but was convinced by his advisers to do this with Sicily as an experiment and then sell the rest of the Italian territory to the Iberians. However the Emperor had believed that Sicily would be all that was necessary and that he could win over the Natives in Italy in due time.

In the Iberian Empire, the purchase of Sicily was a great boon. One would think that it would be uneconomical to not be able to trade with Venice, however it had been very profitable as the Venetians would make contacts in Africa who would buy Sicilian goods for them and then sell them again at a slightly higher price. The Iberians were also making a fortune off of the Salt trade by mining salt from the Chotts in African Territory. With all this income coming in from the territory all along Iberia and North Africa that had once been many years before hard to trade with given the Heathens controlling it but now that Christians were inhabiting the land it was ready for trade with Europe at large.
When an Empire such as this had money it was usually used for a certain purpose: Conquest.

The Islands of the Runnieyjar had been inhabited by Primitives like the Skraelings of Liefrvalde, and for decades have been in trade with the Empire on the Mainland. However when a Christian missionary had gotten killed by one of these savages in gave Emperor Olaf Ragnarsson (who at around this time changed his name to Charles to appease the more conservative of the native Iberian hierarchy, the exact date when he did this is unknown but many during and after his reign still called him Olaf) a perfect excuse to invade. Sending his son Conrad to conquer the Isles
With Sailors used to the open Atlantic he had easily conquered the Northernmost Island and immediately began building a base of operations. These included the building of farms, smithies, wells, rudimentary roads, docks, and varying things. After five months of overseeing the development of the North Island he then gathered reinforcement from the mainland and even mercenaries from the Norse world and began the conquest of the other Islands. The Natives had heard of this and formed a sort of coalition and each island contributed an amount of soldiers to the Island closest to the North one; Conrad was in fact glad for this as it allowed him to annihilate their largest force and garner fear among the other Islands. When he fought the coalition force he was able to defeat them with crossbows that gave the Iberians an advantage in range over the people who had not even used bows; however he sustained much more casualties than he had expected but kept the exact number of deaths secret and then gave the other Islands an ultimatum: Surrender and accept Jesus Christ or be annihilated. The threat was successful with the Islands laying down their arms and then Conrad began colonizing the islands with Iberians.

Around the same time as the Iberian conquest of the Runnieyjar the Iberians had gotten a hold of a certain plant from the east, Cannabis.
The plant had been initially used as a form of recreation and as a medicine to calm down hysterical women. It grew in popularity among the cities of the Empire and many had thought of the plant as a stress reliever, however the Church disliked the crop as it was supposedly observed those who used it had shown hedonistic tendencies such as extreme Gluttony and Lust.
 
I think there's about a handful; I remember there being at least one more on the site. Can't recall the name right now though.

Yeah I think there is only one other active one I the site but I'm not sure what it is. There have been a few over the years but I think they were all abandoned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top