So he use A-bombs on China and the war is still a draw. I see more people seeing the Korean war as pointless.
Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dystopia stalin lives
- Status
So he use A-bombs on China and the war is still a draw. I see more people seeing the Korean war as pointless.
Hmm,I would think that after that,Eisenhower would insist on a unified Korea and threaten to keep bombing China until Mao agreed or until China was no longer a functioning state.
Hopefully soon. I've been busy with classes and am having some writer's block.
Yeah, after all this destruction going as OTL will be seen almost as a defeat...and the Chinese will be probably too shocked and terrified to propose anything, expecially with the Russian backing out and Chiank being allowed to attack south China.
A more sensible proposal for the USA will be 'annexing' North Korea to the South till just north of PyongYang and allow the rump communist nation to become a protectorate/buffer zone/ proper part of China (OTL DMZ was basically the frontline at the end of the war, so it will be in any case much more at North due to the American attack)...and in a more 'unofficial manner' promise to put again at Taiwan his lash (in any way the first Taiwan crisis will be butteflyed away as China is in no position to do much).
This will bring some big change in Asia; China will be very occupied in lick his wound so support to the other various communist state/insurgent will be much less, at least in the initial phase. After Mao had finished to rebuilt the nation i expect that he will come back with a veangeance against all the border nation (URSS included) and one of the first priority will be to acquire nuclear weapon.
In any case this attack will cause some severe repercussion in the negotiation in Indochina; Ho chi Minh and co. will be scared to death at the moment.
Last edited:
Lonely At the Top
Lonely At the Top
Excerpt from Master of the House: Stalin in the 1950s by Konstantin Chernakov
Following the America nuclear attacks and the end of the Korean War Sino-Soviet relations entered a deep freeze. The first signs of a break came in June, when Zhou Enlai and Liu Shaoqi traveled to Moscow to request aid. It was a disastrous meeting. Zhou and Liu asked that “in the name of Socialist fraternity” the Soviets give the Chinese a $50 million loan at 2% interest, as well as send more technical advisors and machinery. Upon hearing these demands Stalin reportedly told Liu “What you are asking for is nothing more than a handout.” Liu’s protests to the contrary only made Stalin angrier and angrier, until he finally left the room in a fit of rage. For the next two days the Chinese delegates were unable to get a meeting with anyone. “We spent our time playing xiangqi[1] and waiting for Stalin to call” Zhou later recalled. On the advice of several of his magnates Stalin eventually did meet with them, however he was only willing to offer $30 million at 5% interest. Zhou and Liu, recognizing that this was the best deal they could get, agreed. For Mao the agreement was nothing more than Stalin treating China like a colony. “We ask him to help us recover from a war we fought for him, and yet Stalin has the gall to call our requests a hand out!” Mao told Peng Duhai. Excerpt from Master of the House: Stalin in the 1950s by Konstantin Chernakov
Ideologically the two nations had begun splitting as well. Mao had never seen the Soviet model of economic development, which emphasized the industrial workforce and building up heavy industry, as applicable in China. Instead Mao believed that only by mobilizing the peasantry would China achieve full Communism. On November 1st, 1954 Mao outlined this theory in an official editorial for People’s Daily, titled “From Chinese Socialism to Chinese Communism.” In it Mao declared “China is at the precipice of an enormous change. There are over 600 million Chinese, and through the mobilization of that 600 million we can surpass the UK in steel production within 20 years[2], end famine, and make the transition from Socialism to Communism.” Stalin was infuriated by such notions, which he saw as an attack on the Soviet model of economic development, and sent a telegram to Mao explaining that “You have made several practical and theoretical errors in your analysis.” It seems that Mao never responded to the telegram directly, but in December he had Liu Shaoqi published another article called “The Basic Principles of Mao Zedong Thought.” For Stalin the message was clear: Mao considered himself an equal and demanded respect. “We have another Tito on our hands” he told Malenkov. Stalin fired off a twenty page letter to the CCP, accusing the party of “Titoism, deviationism, and failure to be a vanguard of the Revolution.” For the next 5 months both dictators’ underlings sought to keep the split from worsening, but by that point neither Stalin nor Mao were willing to listen. Finally in April 1955 Stalin withdrew all of the Soviet technical advisors and the Soviet ambassador. He then announced that if China refused to fall in line they would be expelled from all international Communist organizations. On April 12th Mao responded by issuing the first public criticism of Stalin: a speech titled “The Political and Ideological Failures of Stalinism.” The delegates who heard it were stunned; Peng Duhai later wrote that “I could feel the hairs on the back of my neck stand up on end. We were now adrift without an anchor, a state with no friends.”
Excerpt from Ruthless Hegemon: Stalin’s Quest to Control the Communist World by Anne Applebaum
After the Sino-Soviet Split Stalin set out to destroy Mao. In the mind of the Soviet dictator Mao had become as dangerous a rival as Trotsky or Tito. According to Soviet propaganda Mao commanded a vast network within the USSR, whose agents launched missions of sabotage, assassination, and terrorism. The network (dubbed the “Maoist-Titoist Front”) even had its tentacles in the highest reaches of the Soviet government, counting amongst its members Lazar Kaganovich and Alexei Kosygin[3]. While in many ways this campaign was created to justify further purges, Stalin’s demonization of Mao was meant to harden hearts and justify any act he took to defeat the Chinese. It was fairly obvious that Stalin was preparing for a war with China. Several dozen divisions were moved to the East, where they participated in massive military exercises on the Sino-Soviet border. Soviet Special Forces sometimes crossed into China on raids, and Soviet planes flew into Chinese airspace frequently. The result was a series of border battles, like the ones fought between the Soviets and the Japanese in the 1930s, which resulted in both countries being brought to the brink of war. Meanwhile Stalin sought to brink the Chinese to their knees through economic warfare. The Soviet Union was China’s largest trading partner, exporting $752 million worth of goods and importing about $573 million. The USSR was also China’s main source of oil, machine/factory parts, and other industrial goods, which Mao desperately needed to modernize China. In September the Soviets launched what became known in China as the Three Blows. The first blow was an oil embargo, the second was a series of tariffs (known as the Saburov Tariffs after Maksim Saburov, head of Gosplan), and the third was a massive increase in the price of machinery and steel. Together the Three Blows crippled the Chinese economy. Due to a US embargo and a shortage of foreign exchange the Chinese lacked a viable alternative to the Soviets for these goods. China’s industrial growth slowed to a crawl, and in some areas (for instance steel production) actually shrunk. However China’s agriculture sector wasn’t nearly as hard hit, with the 1955 harvest yielding 168 million tons of grain (a decrease of 2 million tons from the previous year). However experts recognized that future harvests were likely to be much poorer. Lack of oil forced many farms to abandon their tractors and combines, while without oil or imports from the USSR there would be far less fertilizer. Neither of these things were large parts of China’s agricultural sector (about 800,000 HPs of farm machinery and 240,000 tons of fertilizer were used in 1955), but the loss of both hurt farm productivity. Mao compounded the problem by ordering more grain shipped abroad, hoping to gain hard currency to buy machinery and build up the Chinese industry. He also began a collectivization campaign and a massive irrigation scheme to improve productivity. The result, of course, was one of the largest disasters in Chinese history.
[1] A Chinese game similar to chess
[2] Slightly more realistic than his OTL prediction of 15 years
[3] Both of whom were executed in September 1955 after a show trial.
Oh shit, China's boned.
If Mao's attempt a version of the Great Leap Forward, which will almost certainly have similar results to OTL (aka rocks falling and killing 45 million people), it could easily pave the way for the Soviets to invade, perhaps leading to another Warlord Period.
At the very least, Ike's use of the bomb in Korea/China is going to have serious repercussions. It's definitely going to demonstrate to the Soviets that the Americans (and by extension NATO) would be willing to use nuclear weapons should the Soviets try and move west (the USSR only had, what, 200 nukes at this point?).
If Mao's attempt a version of the Great Leap Forward, which will almost certainly have similar results to OTL (aka rocks falling and killing 45 million people), it could easily pave the way for the Soviets to invade, perhaps leading to another Warlord Period.
At the very least, Ike's use of the bomb in Korea/China is going to have serious repercussions. It's definitely going to demonstrate to the Soviets that the Americans (and by extension NATO) would be willing to use nuclear weapons should the Soviets try and move west (the USSR only had, what, 200 nukes at this point?).
In 1955 the Soviets had 200 nukes, the British had 10, and the Americans had 3057. One of the things that Stalin dreamed of was an invasion of Yugoslavia, but the idea was shelved following the intervention in Korea. Now that nukes have been used the idea isn't just dead, it's been killed, buried, and the burial site has been covered in concrete.
So it looks like this China will have even worse luck ITTL then OTL. Will war break out between the USSR and China or will Stalin kick the bucket before that happens?
How the cold war was fought post Korea?
Simply with the USA sitting on the couch with a coke and a big bowl of popcorn and enjoing the show of the Soviet block injuring himself.
The situation on Indochina will be even more chaotic with China and the URSS already splitting when the Geneva accords has been litteraly just reached.
The Nationalist in Taiwan, Laos and Burma will take the occasion to amp up their effort...and here i doubt that the USA will keep their lash short.
The communist in Europe (and in many other places) will be divided on the situation, while the upper echelon of the party will be very pro-stalin; many will see this occasion to 'stage some rebellion' and start some splitting.
In general China will be much more damaged, between the atomic bombardment, Soviet economic warfare and the earlier 'Great economic mismanagement'.
Note if we are in 55...well in 1956 OTL the Suez crisis happened ( i doubt that Hungary will revolt ITTL at least till Stalin is alive); while Nasser due to the butterfly can decide to be less aggressive or simply Stalin much less generous in any kind of support
Simply with the USA sitting on the couch with a coke and a big bowl of popcorn and enjoing the show of the Soviet block injuring himself.
The situation on Indochina will be even more chaotic with China and the URSS already splitting when the Geneva accords has been litteraly just reached.
The Nationalist in Taiwan, Laos and Burma will take the occasion to amp up their effort...and here i doubt that the USA will keep their lash short.
The communist in Europe (and in many other places) will be divided on the situation, while the upper echelon of the party will be very pro-stalin; many will see this occasion to 'stage some rebellion' and start some splitting.
In general China will be much more damaged, between the atomic bombardment, Soviet economic warfare and the earlier 'Great economic mismanagement'.
Note if we are in 55...well in 1956 OTL the Suez crisis happened ( i doubt that Hungary will revolt ITTL at least till Stalin is alive); while Nasser due to the butterfly can decide to be less aggressive or simply Stalin much less generous in any kind of support
Communist dogma does say that collectivizing farms will improve productivity. This is completely contradicted by the evidence (in the USSR for instance private farms produced far more than collective farms), but Mao isn't one to let lack of evidence get in his way.
Thank you.
Right now Stalin is busy shooting himself in the foot. There's also the fact that in the long term Stalin's purges mean that that there will be less technical experts and competent members of the Party, so the USSR won't be in a good place economically.
Just for some perspective on the effects of the new purge here's a list of prominent Soviet leaders who've been purged by 1955 (some haven't been referenced in story, in which case I'll explain why they were purged):
Vyacheslav Molotov
Lazar Kaganovich
Anastas Mikoyan
Lavrenti Beria
Kliment Voroshilov
Semyon Budenny
Andrei Vyshinsky
Viktor Abakumov
Andrei Andreyev
Otto Kuusinen
Alexei Kosygin
Artem Mikoyan and Mikhail Gurevich (creators of the MiG. Mikoyan was purged because of he was the younger brother of Anastas Mikoyan, while Gurevich was purged for being Jewish. The MiG Design Bureau and its planes were renamed IVS, short for Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin).
Mikhail Pervukhin (Soviet politician and member of the Politburo. Purged for his association with Molotov, who's deputy he'd been during the Soviet atomic bomb project).
Vyacheslav Molotov
Lazar Kaganovich
Anastas Mikoyan
Lavrenti Beria
Kliment Voroshilov
Semyon Budenny
Andrei Vyshinsky
Viktor Abakumov
Andrei Andreyev
Otto Kuusinen
Alexei Kosygin
Artem Mikoyan and Mikhail Gurevich (creators of the MiG. Mikoyan was purged because of he was the younger brother of Anastas Mikoyan, while Gurevich was purged for being Jewish. The MiG Design Bureau and its planes were renamed IVS, short for Iosif Vissarionovich Stalin).
Mikhail Pervukhin (Soviet politician and member of the Politburo. Purged for his association with Molotov, who's deputy he'd been during the Soviet atomic bomb project).
Lost Freeway
Banned
Now that's gonna produce some big butterflies for the Soviet aviation industry-none of them positive.
I just want to say that I love this TL. Hopefully it won't go full dystopian, although knowing how well you write, it would be an interesting read.
- Status