As you said, Siberia doesn't need a Neo-Stalinist regime to be plausible. Just having the CNS go down the road of the provisional government, of a nation of well-meaning but corrupt or incompetent officials, would be enough to have the Siberians be given independence. Having a Putin-esque strongman in Moscow definitely wouldn't make the Allies inclined to give the resources of Siberia to them.
Twilight of the Red Tsar
- Thread starter Napoleon IV
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As you said, Siberia doesn't need a Neo-Stalinist regime to be plausible. Just having the CNS go down the road of the provisional government, of a nation of well-meaning but corrupt or incompetent officials, would be enough to have the Siberians be given independence. Having a Putin-esque strongman in Moscow definitely wouldn't make the Allies inclined to give the resources of Siberia to them.
At the very least, reunification is not a near-impossibly, and the world can sleep at night far better.
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Regarding WW2, as bad as Stalin was (even post-stroke), Stalin did not seek to eradicate the entirety of the Slavic peoples or basically all of Russia, so while it was two monsters duking it out with millions of casualties, the Russians will still see WW2 as a war of preservation of their people. Stalin of course would be looked at as extremely incompetent and malicious for giving Hitler permission to invade Poland and giving him resources for his war with France and Britain and especially ignoring obvious evidence that Hitler was planning on backstabbing him and mounting troops on the border.
If anything, WW2 historiography in post-Soviet Russia will focus more on the generals if not almost entirely, the only time Stalin is mentioned is him being a coward or purging competent officers left and right. Generals like Zhukov will be seen as the true heroes and Stalin will be seen as the bumbling evil idiot who thankfully had the intelligence to swallow his ego for just a moment to let his generals plan it out and run the war allowing Russia to survive, it also helps that Zhukov could be martyred once his true fate under Stalin is revealed following the USSR's collapse.
If anything, WW2 historiography in post-Soviet Russia will focus more on the generals if not almost entirely, the only time Stalin is mentioned is him being a coward or purging competent officers left and right. Generals like Zhukov will be seen as the true heroes and Stalin will be seen as the bumbling evil idiot who thankfully had the intelligence to swallow his ego for just a moment to let his generals plan it out and run the war allowing Russia to survive, it also helps that Zhukov could be martyred once his true fate under Stalin is revealed following the USSR's collapse.
That's why I said pride on the Generals of.the Red Army.
Regarding national prides. China have it easier actually...somewhat. Chiang is still a ruthless dictator with a bodycount of millions, but he at least unified China...after having see it destroyed for the Warlord Era, The Imperial Japaneses, Mao and then Stalin. Dude is going to get Uber Idealized. The Nationalists as well
There hopes for a democratic China ITTL? The likely KMT Hero Worship don't make it likely. Nationwide Taiwan?
Democratic but far from Perfect, comparable to a modern OTL Latin American country goverment?
Also. How's Latin America, especially the Andean Countries?
Regarding national prides. China have it easier actually...somewhat. Chiang is still a ruthless dictator with a bodycount of millions, but he at least unified China...after having see it destroyed for the Warlord Era, The Imperial Japaneses, Mao and then Stalin. Dude is going to get Uber Idealized. The Nationalists as well
There hopes for a democratic China ITTL? The likely KMT Hero Worship don't make it likely. Nationwide Taiwan?
Democratic but far from Perfect, comparable to a modern OTL Latin American country goverment?
Also. How's Latin America, especially the Andean Countries?
Bookmark1995
Banned
Well, here is another point to consider.
That Red Army may have been...noble during World War II. But ITTL, the Russian people are now trying to destroy it, and it is trying to destroy THEM! Russian schoolchildren might learn about the horrors of the Second Russian Civil War, and later be forced to learn about the First Russian Civil War, and thus, they will learn how monstrously evil the Red Army was.
Well, OTL Chiang-Chaing-Kuo put Taiwan on the path toward democracy, so ITTL, it will be possible.
Let's also remember the KMT don't have a commie threat to rally the people around.
I said the Generals. Creating a narrative of "the real.heroes were killed for Big Bad Stalin, leaving only the monsters that raped China".
PD: BTW. Anyone have read Stalin' Compete Monster entry on TV Tropes. I wanna rewrite it, it feels too...short, dunno if anyone here did EP him or if it was someone outside.
PD: BTW. Anyone have read Stalin' Compete Monster entry on TV Tropes. I wanna rewrite it, it feels too...short, dunno if anyone here did EP him or if it was someone outside.
I wonder how r/ShitWehraboosSays and other "I'm anti Nazi, How you dare to.compare them to.the Soviets!?" would.be ITTL. I'm already annoyed with their "The Soviets weren't even.close to.be as bad" ocassional discourse.
In the TL. How they would be? Soviets are equally as hated as Nazis and only morons would call it "cold war propaganda!"
In the TL. How they would be? Soviets are equally as hated as Nazis and only morons would call it "cold war propaganda!"
Not saying the Soviets were at all good, but by any and all measures, the Nazis were orders of magnitude worse.
True that Nazis had much nastier plans and Holocaust was just warming but ITTL many people would see Hitler and Stalin equally as bad. They wouldn't see any difference. I have met even people who say that Stalin was worse than Hitler in OTL. Thing is just that many people don't know how terrible plans Nazis had.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I can imagine many right-wing historians might bash Stalin more, having the ammo to do so: the Holocaust, nuking the Chinese, oppressing Eastern Europe.
But as I've stated, while Hitler's plans for Europe were much worse then Stalin's, Stalin is in many ways a lot worse then the Nazis.
Hitler was a madman, but he never minced words. He made his point clear in his book. The world should have taken heed, but almost no one took him seriously, even after he started annexing all of these territories.
Stalin talked a good game about brotherhood and unity, but ultimately he practiced neither. He destroyed the principles of communism, and embraced the worst attributes of Tsarist Russia: bloody court politics, genocide, imperialism, forced labor, and betrayal.
Millions of people looked to Soviet Russia as a land that could create a better world, only to be brutally disappointed, or to be brutally killed.
They might say "Hitler never lied" and "Stalin was a wretched liar."
In this TL there would hopefully be a more consistent standard taken with historical denialism and remembering the victims of mass killings, I'm pretty sure ITTL holocaust denial and holodomor denial are both illegal in the US.
It would be interesting to see how Syndicalist Hungary approaches its historical past. OTL, the Hungarian fascists and the stalinist secret police used the same building in Budapest as their headquarters and torture chamber, today its been preserved as the "House of Terror" museum.
Speaking of remembrance, I wonder if the argument that "real communism hasn't been worked" would still persist ITTL? I say this is because it seems lots of people forget that Stalin did practice his form of communism in OTL, a more nationalistic kind (hence the whole "socialism in one country" slogan), and probably continued to do so ITTL. That and I wonder if some Syndicalists would do some stupid Manduro-esque moves to implement "true communism"?
I guess in the context of ITTL, Stalin is worse than Hitler; the only thing he lacked is a clear plan to commit mass killings in the name of Marxist-Leninism upon the non-Soviet peoples.
"New Secret Soviet document revealed, Stalin plans on the complete absolute extermination of the reactionary ethnic groups of all Eastern Europe. Not.just deportation, but anhilation"
Bookmark1995
Banned
Well...
OTL, you had the Holodomor, which ITTL will definitely be seen as a deliberate act of genocide, and the division of Poland, in which hundreds of thousands of Poles were killed or worked to death.
Those events might also be used to draw parallels between the Nazis and Soviets.
Ryan
Donor
Estonia is only 20% Estonian and Latvia is only 50% Latvian. the only reason Lithuania didn't suffer the same fate is because Stalin died before it could be carried out.
I know that. I just joked about a hypothetical Stalinist equivalent of Generalplan OST to effectively wipe them completely.
Would historians lump the Benes decrees, Polish-Ukrainian population transfers, and redrawing of the map of eastern europe at Yalta as the precursors to this?
I wonder how conscious of these actions will be in modern day russia in this timeline.
Bookmark1995
Banned
That's one of the biggest questions on this board? Will Russia, like Germany, be forced to reckon with a history of shame and evil, or will the post-Soviet government be so inept, the average Russia will end up longing for the days of Stalin.
Until Napoleon comes back, we won't have an answer.
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