Okay I've been wondering what would the mainstream culture be like TL-191 United States, along with their foreign policy, relationships with other countries and how the US and the rest of the world view each other after SGW?
TL-191American culture, foreign policies, views and society post 2GW
- Thread starter pattontank12
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Have you read AFTER THE END by Mr David bar Elias? It's a rather definitive take on what might follow the last page of Mister Turtledove's novels.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-191-after-the-end.100997/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-191-after-the-end.100997/
Bits and pieces though overall I think it's pretty unrealistic.Have you read AFTER THE END by Mr David bar Elias? It's a rather definitive take on what might follow the last page of Mister Turtledove's novels.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/tl-191-after-the-end.100997/
I agree. It was TOO optimistic and bright. I wasn't looking for Warhammer 40K, but I was expecting a darker world than OTL.
Given that the novels themselves cover the survival of the Confederate States, no fewer than three slaughterous wars, the creation of a Holocaust in the Southern United States and over half a dozen Atomic Bombs being detonated I think we can safely say that we've already had more than enough of a "Darker World" courtesy of Mister Turtledove and would be very grateful for some improvement in the Tragic condition of Timeline-191.
I like an Epic Tragedy as much as the next man, but after Featherston I think we might just be able to cut the poor d--- locals a break!
I like an Epic Tragedy as much as the next man, but after Featherston I think we might just be able to cut the poor d--- locals a break!
Just imagine what there equivalent of Star Trek would be like. Join the brave crew of the TFSS Indomitable as they seek out new worlds to colonize for future settlers and resources for the Terran Federations industry, conquer the native barbarians and bring them unto the light of civilization and fight the traitorous slave driving Separatist Rebels alongside there allies the noble and inventive allies the Solarian Empire.
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Faeelin
Banned
From the perspective of someone in 1945, 2016 is borderline utopic. Why shouldn't they learn from their mistakes too?
Given that the novels themselves cover the survival of the Confederate States, no fewer than three slaughterous wars, the creation of a Holocaust in the Southern United States and over half a dozen Atomic Bombs being detonated I think we can safely say that we've already had more than enough of a "Darker World" courtesy of Mister Turtledove and would be very grateful for some improvement in the Tragic condition of Timeline-191.
I like an Epic Tragedy as much as the next man, but after Featherston I think we might just be able to cut the poor d--- locals a break!
I think the timeline he made is fine. There are a few things I think would've happened, like I think the Germans and the Americans would've butted heads a little more, not necessarily in a Cold War way, but I think there would be a little more conflict, and I do think the Ottomans, Japan, Brazil, and Italy would try to press to acquire superbombs themselves.
But there are a fair share of wars in it that prevent it from becoming too squeaky clean! Life in Britain and France are shite for a long time.
Also, one should take into account that whereas only one nation was ever nuked in OTL, SIX nations were in this timeline! The winners as well as the losers! That would certainly leave a lasting impression on the consciousness of the world. I mean, this world ACTUALLY experienced a nucleae war! Several of Europe's major cultural centers were vaporized!!! The horrors of a nuclear war are not hypothetical to them, they've experienced them firsthand! It's not crazy to suggest then that the people of this timeline would actually striaght up abhor these weapons, try to limit their development as much as possible, and strive to ensure that these weapons are NEVER used again! Some nations might even opt out of developing them at all perhaps out of moral objection.
Also, since many nations of this world didn't fall in this world, such as the Empire of Brazil and the Ottoman Empire, it's not hard to imagine that they are more socially developed and more peaceful and stable. One of the reasons that South American countries are in such a dire state today is in part because of U.S. interference. Since the US was kept out because of TTL's Brazil, South America wouldn't fall under U.S. imperialism and thus would have had control over their own resources. Same for the Middle East under an existing Ottoman Empire, the Western imperialist powers were kept out! Also, given how they were nuked themselves and fought invading armies, the U.S. and the Germans wouldn't have to resources to expand to such superpower levels as ths OTL U.S. did, meaning many third world nations would have had no other option than to develop themselves with a more limited foreign investment.
Even then it is far from perfect, as the last days of TTL's Ottoman Empire show! India also splits apart rather violently. The Apartheid regime in S. Africa is even worse thanks to help from the former Freedomites. There is still tension and strife, it's just that the nations of this world had more time and opportunities to develop themselves so they could manage the burden a little better.
Just because a world is more optimistic doesn't mean it is implausible or unlikely. I think there are several things substantiatjng David bar Elias' timeline.
Does anyone have any thoughts on what kind of popular media would emerge in TL-191 TV shows, Movies, Music, Literature etc?
It's possible that you could see the TTL's version of Martin Luther King Jr. take up a role similar to Eli Wiesel and he'd likely write a story similar to Wiesel's "Night" about his experiences in Camp Determination or some other camp in Featherston's Confederacy.
sdrucker
Banned
And from the perspective of someone from 1992 or 2000 (not me per se), 2016 may be downright dystopic. All is relative.
Just imagine asking someone from the 1997 Emberverse about what their 2016 would be. Now there's a dystopia, which a few minor disagreements (a few Wiccan enthusiasts and a certain history professor)...
United Republic
Banned
I'm really curious to see what post-GW2 Confederate/Southern culture would be like. It's implied that the southerners would feel as guilty about the Population Reduction as the Germans did about the Holocaust.
I imagine a Southern white person would pretty much never be elected president, never quite able to shake the shadow of Featherston. However, I do imagine that with the shame of carrying out these atrocities, resistance to the North is negligible, and thus the federal government has unimpeded control over the Southern school system, being occupied territories rather than states. And with a strong social democratic culture rooted into the American zeitgeist, the U.S. government would contribute a lot of resources into the school system. So, the South, once it is finally reintroduced into the Union, would be much more educated, wealthy, and less overtly religious than in OTL.
While I do think that Slavery and Genocide would feature more prominently in their worlds villains I can't see them imagining the future society as expansionist and colonialist, after all that's what got them into this mess.
If anything I could see their Federation being even more anti capitalist than we see in our timeline.
Actually I'm pretty sure linear progression & social darwinism is still widely accepted by Americans.
Also wouldn't the socialist party be widely discredited after SGW? Do to both the depression that happened under socialist administration and the SGW since they reduced army size and spending, and trying to appease Jake Featherstone.
Americans like their domestic policies and they have a strong base with the working class, and especially labor unions. So, even if they are perceived as being weak on foreign policy, they have a strong enough base to keep them going. Keep in mind the economy fared no better under Herbert Hoover, and Al Smith's presidency saw economic improvement. Plus, his martyrdom creates a good and strong narrative for the Socialist Party, that he died doing his duty and defending "our country!"
The U.S. is much more mature in TTL than it is in OTL. They've experienced wars on their continent. They know that policy is complicated. The American electorate appears to be much more forgiving in TTL.