Timeline Planning: World of futures past

[pattontank12]

On conflicts that could be waged in this timeline I am thinking about something similar to britannia's fist trilogy. With the American Civil War becoming part of a much wider world war. As for what what caused tensions to rise so high to the point that the United States and the British Empire go to all out war between each other. I am thinking that it was ITTL equivalent to the Pig War.

Also on the subject trains here one thought is we could see an equivalent to the Breitspurbahn actually getting constructed in universe. With it being a non horrible version of Supertrain.

If anyone knows of any other similar ideas from OTL for construction let me know...

 

[pattontank12]

So how long could steam cars feasibly last after the development of internal combustion automobiles? Considering that in OTL we had the Doble steam car and the fact that back in the 60's steam turbine cars were flirted with. Just wondering since I think it would be cool to have steam cars and dirigibles to still be in widespread use when this timeline's space race kicks off. I'm just not sure how plausible it would be.

Also thinking about the 'Dieselpunk Era" of this timeline and my desire to include some pulp story elements. I think Gotham 1919-1939 would be solid source of inspiration from the narrative side of the timeline. Since I do want some "comic book" styled action taking place in this world alongside looking at what could have been.

 

[Kashen]

Having a German spiderman in metropolis with the dark narrative of the Japanese manga set in early 1970s would cool

 

[pattontank12]

Some ripe material here.

https://scifiseries.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F669693702020726784

https://steampunkvehicles.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F668860884067794944

https://adtothebone.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F643416078131855360

Having a German spiderman in metropolis with the dark narrative of the Japanese manga set in early 1970s would cool

Well probably not spiderman but having a costume vigilante running around does fit the rule of cool aspect of this universe.

 

[Kashen]

Some ripe material here.

https://scifiseries.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F669693702020726784

https://steampunkvehicles.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F668860884067794944

https://adtothebone.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F643416078131855360

Well probably not spiderman but having a costume vigilante running around does fit the rule of cool aspect of this universe.

Some ideas
Hex tech and Chem tech like technology from League of legends:Arcane could be interesting do to the various technological ecstatics of steampunk,Diselpunk and Biopunk
Have some Leonardo DaVinci technology based off his diagrams so that once this world's industrial revolution kicks in it will look more like steampunk
During the Cold war it would be cool to also see a deep sea race where all sides explore the world ocean building habitatable building for human life and discovering resources and marine life something equivalent to the Subnatica video game

 

[pattontank12]

I'm trying to have the technology be more or less plausible. Since I do want to be somewhat believable and avoid falling into ASB territory.

Give it a feeling that this could have been our timeline.

 

[Aluma]

What OP said
The idea is a earlier or amped up "realistic" modernization but in a way it doesnt butterfly away the most "recognizable" powers/nations of OTL

 

[Santo Nombre]

In order for steam machinery to be more widespread around the world in the 19th century, I think you should lay some foundation for its development. I can think of a stream-punk in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries based mainly on the energy of air and water (mills) but also on the inventions of Jeronimo de Ayanz and Beaumont: he created a steam engine to expel water from the mines and cool the air in the galleries. This machine was operated at the Guadalcanal silver mine near Seville. He also invented a kind of submarine, a diving suit with a system to allow breathing (used to collect pearls in the Caribbean) and devised an economic adjustment plan to liberalize the mines of the Empire, lower production costs, create special mining schools,... but it was not understood by King Philip III, who preferred to hunt and party, so his ideas were forgotten by an opportunist and short-term minded court.

a diving suit

a "proto-submarine"

a steam engine

With the aim of achieving an early technological development that is coherent I propose a POD in 1582: Diego Félix of Austria does not die of diphtheria and becomes the Hispanic Monarch in 1598 instead of his brother Felipe. The differences will be few, because he was only three years older than Philip, so he would marry the princess who married his brother, Margaret of Austria. King Felix I marveled at Jerónimo de Ayanz and kept him as State Councillor, creating a network of small arms factories on the north coast of Spain, where there are strong streams, iron mines and coal mines:
Spark-key rifles that equip Tercios are standardized and cheaper.

Several shovel ships are also manufactured based on Blasco de Garay’s improved designs.

In 1650 King Felix died at the age of 75. Spain has not fallen due to the 30-year war (which never existed) but managed to negotiate an independence of the territories of the Netherlands, maintaining trade privileges. Portugal remains politically united with the rest of the Peninsula, and the Crown focuses on the control of the Mediterranean against the Ottomans and on the development of the American, African and Asian provinces.
The Netherlands embarked on colonial adventures without interfering with the spanish by discovering the Brouwer route and founding ports in Namibia and Madagascar. France gave a great boost to its industry after seeing the benefits that mechanization produced for Spain, protecting William Lee and his knitting machine.

It will also mechanize the manufacture of weapons for royal musketeers under Louis XIV. Sweden and Austria boost air guns.

Hot-air balloons and land ships spread in England:

The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648

Odd Inventions. Sailing on Land. The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648. Original artwork from Look and Learn Book 1982.

www.lookandlearn.com

What do you think?

 

[traveller76]

I like this and want to see more.

 

[Santo Nombre]

I like this and want to see more.

So I add more details about a realistic possible alternative technology accelerated developpement:

1606: Jerónimo de Ayanz first commercial steam pump (instead of Savery on 1698)
1615: William Lee has more succes and his silk and whool stocking machine evolved to knit cotton increasing yarn demand.
1630: Huguenot weavers of Languedoc invent the fliying shuttle (instead of John Kay on 1733) making denim textile very widespread.
1650: Pascal invents the piston during his debate against Decartes about the existence of vacuum.
1655: Mesta whool exporters invent the spinning machine (instead of Richard Arkwrite on 1769) so they sell yarns instead of raw whool. This machine is soon adapted to other fibers like cotton or hemp.
1662: Edward Sommerset first atmospherical steam engine (instead of Newcomen on 1712)
1707: Denis Papin & Leibnitz first real steam engine (instead of Watt on 1776)

I think that you need to increase health and food production in order to allow for an earlier industrialization, so:
-Jesuits bring from China the secret of Wan Quan variolation, reducing smallpox.
-Waasland four-crops rotation technique widespreads earlier.
-Earlier use of potatoes and other american crops.
-Enclosure (not necessary if the communal land is worked as a big sized farm)
-Stablishing a national market eliminating inner tolls and tariffs. That will be interesting because elites tend to protect medieval privileges and the Crown need to create new taxes in order to fund its expansion. So expect more jacqueries, more frondes and regional parlements boicots... maybe we have a French Revolution by 1730 based on radical physiocratic ideas about taxing land ownership?

 

[pattontank12]

In order for steam machinery to be more widespread around the world in the 19th century, I think you should lay some foundation for its development. I can think of a stream-punk in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries based mainly on the energy of air and water (mills) but also on the inventions of Jeronimo de Ayanz and Beaumont: he created a steam engine to expel water from the mines and cool the air in the galleries. This machine was operated at the Guadalcanal silver mine near Seville. He also invented a kind of submarine, a diving suit with a system to allow breathing (used to collect pearls in the Caribbean) and devised an economic adjustment plan to liberalize the mines of the Empire, lower production costs, create special mining schools,... but it was not understood by King Philip III, who preferred to hunt and party, so his ideas were forgotten by an opportunist and short-term minded court.
View attachment 720345
a diving suit
View attachment 720348
a "proto-submarine"
View attachment 720346
a steam engine

With the aim of achieving an early technological development that is coherent I propose a POD in 1582: Diego Félix of Austria does not die of diphtheria and becomes the Hispanic Monarch in 1598 instead of his brother Felipe. The differences will be few, because he was only three years older than Philip, so he would marry the princess who married his brother, Margaret of Austria. King Felix I marveled at Jerónimo de Ayanz and kept him as State Councillor, creating a network of small arms factories on the north coast of Spain, where there are strong streams, iron mines and coal mines:
Spark-key rifles that equip Tercios are standardized and cheaper.
View attachment 720350

Several shovel ships are also manufactured based on Blasco de Garay’s improved designs.
View attachment 720356
In 1650 King Felix died at the age of 75. Spain has not fallen due to the 30-year war (which never existed) but managed to negotiate an independence of the territories of the Netherlands, maintaining trade privileges. Portugal remains politically united with the rest of the Peninsula, and the Crown focuses on the control of the Mediterranean against the Ottomans and on the development of the American, African and Asian provinces.
The Netherlands embarked on colonial adventures without interfering with the spanish by discovering the Brouwer route and founding ports in Namibia and Madagascar. France gave a great boost to its industry after seeing the benefits that mechanization produced for Spain, protecting William Lee and his knitting machine.
View attachment 720358
It will also mechanize the manufacture of weapons for royal musketeers under Louis XIV. Sweden and Austria boost air guns.
View attachment 720362
Hot-air balloons and land ships spread in England:

The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648

Odd Inventions. Sailing on Land. The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648. Original artwork from Look and Learn Book 1982.

www.lookandlearn.com

View attachment 720369

What do you think?

So I add more details about a realistic possible alternative technology accelerated developpement:

1606: Jerónimo de Ayanz first commercial steam pump (instead of Savery on 1698)
1615: William Lee has more succes and his silk and whool stocking machine evolved to knit cotton increasing yarn demand.
1630: Huguenot weavers of Languedoc invent the fliying shuttle (instead of John Kay on 1733) making denim textile very widespread.
1650: Pascal invents the piston during his debate against Decartes about the existence of vacuum.
1655: Mesta whool exporters invent the spinning machine (instead of Richard Arkwrite on 1769) so they sell yarns instead of raw whool. This machine is soon adapted to other fibers like cotton or hemp.
1662: Edward Sommerset first atmospherical steam engine (instead of Newcomen on 1712)
1707: Denis Papin & Leibnitz first real steam engine (instead of Watt on 1776)

I think that you need to increase health and food production in order to allow for an earlier industrialization, so:
-Jesuits bring from China the secret of Wan Quan variolation, reducing smallpox.
-Waasland four-crops rotation technique widespreads earlier.
-Earlier use of potatoes and other american crops.
-Enclosure (not necessary if the communal land is worked as a big sized farm)
-Stablishing a national market eliminating inner tolls and tariffs. That will be interesting because elites tend to protect medieval privileges and the Crown need to create new taxes in order to fund its expansion. So expect more jacqueries, more frondes and regional parlements boicots... maybe we have a French Revolution by 1730 based on radical physiocratic ideas about taxing land ownership?

This has some amazing potential for accelerated technological development and a radically different timeline from what I'm familiar with.

Trying to find a good point of divergence has been one of the hardest parts for me.

 

[pattontank12]

Some material for more "recent" stuff

 

[Twiggierjet]

Some material for more "recent" stuff

This may be of some interest to you.

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

I'll comment more later, when I'm done with finals. But right now, I'm working on a project called "House of Mercury" -- an anthology project, set in a world imagined by people from roughly the 1580s-1660s. The anthology is structured to imitate an archive of historical documents, but the documents are connected by a broader narrative -- even if that narrative isn't always clear or coherent, and I hope will be fun for readers to puzzle out in an ARG kind of way. This was a time of all sorts of religious weirdness -- the Protestant Reformation; the rise of Shia Islam in Persia; the bhakts, Sikhs, and others in India; and so on. The world was changing, its material reality was becoming clearer -- but spiritual reality was up for debate. Natural philosophy is understood in terms of alchemy, astrology, and theurgy -- all of which are more scientifically "true" in this world than in our own, but which all assume that certain things are just unknowable by means of observation and scientific testing. The actual cosmology of the world is debated (vigorously, and sometimes violently) by different faiths and different sects -- but the world is a bit more enchanted than our own.

I recommend starting here, with "A Letter from a Nun to a Devil"; or here, with a Papal Bull on the use of cadavers in alchemy; depending on which sounds more fun to you. Sorry for using your thread to plug my own project. But this whole idea of retro-futurism (can I call the Baroque era "retro?") is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and I hope other people enjoy my take on the genre. Of course, to mystics and occultists of the time (and everyone else, at least in Europe and the Islamic world), the idea of "the future" was also inexorably tied to competing ideas about Armageddon, so retro-futuristic apocalypticism is also something I'm having a lot of fun with. I'm almost done writing the next bit -- an adaptation of the story of the Golem of Prague (and its broader political ramifications), which will be out soon!

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

In order for steam machinery to be more widespread around the world in the 19th century, I think you should lay some foundation for its development. I can think of a stream-punk in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries based mainly on the energy of air and water (mills) but also on the inventions of Jeronimo de Ayanz and Beaumont: he created a steam engine to expel water from the mines and cool the air in the galleries. This machine was operated at the Guadalcanal silver mine near Seville. He also invented a kind of submarine, a diving suit with a system to allow breathing (used to collect pearls in the Caribbean) and devised an economic adjustment plan to liberalize the mines of the Empire, lower production costs, create special mining schools,... but it was not understood by King Philip III, who preferred to hunt and party, so his ideas were forgotten by an opportunist and short-term minded court.
View attachment 720345
a diving suit
View attachment 720348
a "proto-submarine"
View attachment 720346
a steam engine

With the aim of achieving an early technological development that is coherent I propose a POD in 1582: Diego Félix of Austria does not die of diphtheria and becomes the Hispanic Monarch in 1598 instead of his brother Felipe. The differences will be few, because he was only three years older than Philip, so he would marry the princess who married his brother, Margaret of Austria. King Felix I marveled at Jerónimo de Ayanz and kept him as State Councillor, creating a network of small arms factories on the north coast of Spain, where there are strong streams, iron mines and coal mines:
Spark-key rifles that equip Tercios are standardized and cheaper.
View attachment 720350

Several shovel ships are also manufactured based on Blasco de Garay’s improved designs.
View attachment 720356
In 1650 King Felix died at the age of 75. Spain has not fallen due to the 30-year war (which never existed) but managed to negotiate an independence of the territories of the Netherlands, maintaining trade privileges. Portugal remains politically united with the rest of the Peninsula, and the Crown focuses on the control of the Mediterranean against the Ottomans and on the development of the American, African and Asian provinces.
The Netherlands embarked on colonial adventures without interfering with the spanish by discovering the Brouwer route and founding ports in Namibia and Madagascar. France gave a great boost to its industry after seeing the benefits that mechanization produced for Spain, protecting William Lee and his knitting machine.
View attachment 720358
It will also mechanize the manufacture of weapons for royal musketeers under Louis XIV. Sweden and Austria boost air guns.
View attachment 720362
Hot-air balloons and land ships spread in England:

The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648

Odd Inventions. Sailing on Land. The Land Ship, invented by Dr Wilkins, Bishop of Chester, in 1648. Original artwork from Look and Learn Book 1982.

www.lookandlearn.com

View attachment 720369

What do you think?

I actually wrote something about this! "A Sub-Marine Voyage (1691)" is a memoir of Felix Simon van Dogger, a Dutch explorer/ambassador to the kingdoms of the Under-Sea during the time of William & Mary. It describes some of the alchemical, astrological, and natural science behind his "sub-marine ship," as well as the Under-Sea's geography and some of its inhabitants. Van Dogger's submarine is just propelled by oars, and is inspired by various historical figures (most notably Cornelis Drebbel, who built an oar-powered submarine in 1620), and by the myth of Alexander the Great's submarine.

 

[pattontank12]

This is what I'm picturing for the Diesel Era

I'll comment more later, when I'm done with finals. But right now, I'm working on a project called "House of Mercury" -- an anthology project, set in a world imagined by people from roughly the 1580s-1660s. The anthology is structured to imitate an archive of historical documents, but the documents are connected by a broader narrative -- even if that narrative isn't always clear or coherent, and I hope will be fun for readers to puzzle out in an ARG kind of way. This was a time of all sorts of religious weirdness -- the Protestant Reformation; the rise of Shia Islam in Persia; the bhakts, Sikhs, and others in India; and so on. The world was changing, its material reality was becoming clearer -- but spiritual reality was up for debate. Natural philosophy is understood in terms of alchemy, astrology, and theurgy -- all of which are more scientifically "true" in this world than in our own, but which all assume that certain things are just unknowable by means of observation and scientific testing. The actual cosmology of the world is debated (vigorously, and sometimes violently) by different faiths and different sects -- but the world is a bit more enchanted than our own.

I recommend starting here, with "A Letter from a Nun to a Devil"; or here, with a Papal Bull on the use of cadavers in alchemy; depending on which sounds more fun to you. Sorry for using your thread to plug my own project. But this whole idea of retro-futurism (can I call the Baroque era "retro?") is something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and I hope other people enjoy my take on the genre. Of course, to mystics and occultists of the time (and everyone else, at least in Europe and the Islamic world), the idea of "the future" was also inexorably tied to competing ideas about Armageddon, so retro-futuristic apocalypticism is also something I'm having a lot of fun with. I'm almost done writing the next bit -- an adaptation of the story of the Golem of Prague (and its broader political ramifications), which will be out soon!

Not at all! Though I do plan on keeping the laws of physics & such the same as OTL with technology being more or less possible. In order to give it a "what could have been feel" to the timeline.

I actually wrote something about this! "A Sub-Marine Voyage (1691)" is a memoir of Felix Simon van Dogger, a Dutch explorer/ambassador to the kingdoms of the Under-Sea during the time of William & Mary. It describes some of the alchemical, astrological, and natural science behind his "sub-marine ship," as well as the Under-Sea's geography and some of its inhabitants. Van Dogger's submarine is just propelled by oars, and is inspired by various historical figures (most notably Cornelis Drebbel, who built an oar-powered submarine in 1620), and by the myth of Alexander the Great's submarine.

Cool!

 

[pattontank12]

This is what I'm imagining cities during the late 19th century to resemble.

One interesting thing to consult is that cities change over time. With buildings, infrastructure and layouts being replaced yet not completely. Seeing parts of what was there before preserving. So I'd imagine that eventually most major cities would be mash ups of various different punk genres, the same way OTL cities retain elements of their past selves.

 

[Seherz]

Gonna bump this thread out of hopes and prayers someone can make a whole bunch of video game franchises, like a Zeerust version of Civilization but going through retrofuture eras instead of normal historical eras.

I wanna see that on my Steam list by 2030. Maybe even 2025. Maybe even fulfill my dreams of being a game dev with a cozy game dev company making even crazier alternate history inspired games, like Paradox Interactive meets Justin Roiland.

 

[Twiggierjet]

Gonna bump this thread out of hopes and prayers someone can make a whole bunch of video game franchises, like a Zeerust version of Civilization but going through retrofuture eras instead of normal historical eras.

I wanna see that on my Steam list by 2030. Maybe even 2025. Maybe even fulfill my dreams of being a game dev with a cozy game dev company making even crazier alternate history inspired games, like Paradox Interactive meets Justin Roiland.

I believe the caveman2cosmos mod for civ4 has some retrofuture elements.

 

[kenrickdookiisbored]

Besides history and technology what would the culture of modern day in this timeline be like