The Union Forever: A TL

[Seraph]

I think it is doubtful the US will be still be using the Maxim machine gun. The Army is treated much better ITTL.

Also, it should be noted that all nations have quick firing guns. What set the French guns apart is its recoil system require less maintenance and has a very high rate of fire compared to other guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_BLC_15_pounder < British
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-inch_M1902_field_gun < USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_FK_96_n.A. < Germany

 

[rick007]

Maybe something like the Tommy Gun gets invented earlier.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Also, for weapons in use, most of the belligerents would have fewer machine guns than OTL as it was the Russo-Japanese war that caused many to upgrade the amounts of MGs in their unit structure.
The Brits would have the Vickers Mk I MG which in OTL was adopted in 1890 though redesigned following the Boer War so their's is still the original clunky design.
The Germans had the 1908 Maxim in OTL, now the Prussians probably have the Maxim 1901 if any, seeing as they haven't unified Germany.
The Russians have Maxim guns, and they actually should have an edge in MGs as they had large numbers compared to the Japanese in the Russo-Japanese war OTL.
The French have their 75mm artillery pieces(1897) and for their MGs either:St Etienne 1907 MG, which was a flop, withdrawn from service in 1916, or the 1905 Puteaux which also wasnt great(though of this one I don't know as much)
The A-H have the Schwartzlose M1907 MG, a decent gun.
The US probably have the Maxim gun as well, in OTL they used the Vickers like UK.
I don't believe the Japanese have a machine gun officially in use in their army at this time.
The Serbs, Bulgarians, and Montenegrans probably use the Maxim gun or the Schwartzlose obtained from A-H or Russia, don't know how you want to work it now but Bulgaria was main Russian ally in Balkans before 2nd balkans war, then it became Serbia.
The Ottoman army was in OTL modernized by the Germans, if we assume the French took over this role, then they have French equipment, pity them in every department except 3 inch artillery!(jk)
Also, in OTL the French shared their recoil-less tech only with allies, so probably A-H and the Turks have those as well, meaning the Entente has the advantage in small bore artillery on all fronts; with OTL Germans having the firepower advantage with more heavier guns, does this follow to the Prussians, Krupp, etc?
At this time frame most armies except the Russians and the Brits, maybe the French, are simply lacking in MGs and thus the battlefields should be slightly more flexible.
Hope this helps
keep up the good work

Thanks. And welcome to the forum!

 

[Mac Gregor]

The Eastern Front​

February- June 1909 ​

Imperial Russian Infantry in Galicia
1909
​

In the early months of 1909 the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy found itself in an increasingly precarious position. Austria-Hungary had, since the start of the war, made impressive gains against it belligerent neighbors, having conquered Montenegro, northeastern Italy, and most of Serbia. Their attempted to invade Russian Poland however, meet with failure as overwhelming Russian numbers pushed them back into Galicia. In early February of 1909, Austro-Hungarian ruler Emperor Maximilian, having accomplished the majority of his nation’s wartime objectives, thought that the time was right to cut his losses and bring a negotiated end to the war. Later deemed the “Hapsburg Plan,” Maximilian’s proposal was simple, it called for an immediate cessation of hostilities, with France and Austria-Hungary keeping their gains in Italy, Germany, and the Balkans, and the Entente-Russian borders returning to status quo ante bellum. Unfortunately for the Double Monarchy, the Russian Empire would launch two massive offensives into Austro-Hungarian controlled Galicia and Transylvania, shaking the Hapsburg state to its core. Furthermore, Britain and America’s entry into the war dashed any chance that Prussia and Russia would willingly agree to any peace favorable to the Entente.

The Fall of Galicia and Transylvania

After having successfully driven Austrian troops from its Polish territories, the Russian Empire embarked on the invasion of Austria-Hungary itself. On February 16th, 1909, in a move that many thought was long overdue, Russian General Nikolai Yudenich invaded the Austro-Hungarian ruled Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria with over 245,000 men. The Austro-Hungarians put up a valiant defense but by the end of April had been nearly completely driven back into Hungary. As Yudenich’s army recovered from the Galicia Campaign, a Russian army of 195,000 under General Aleksei Brusilov and a smaller Romanian force invaded Transylvania in early May. On June 4, 1909 Klausenburg, the unofficial capital of Hungarian Transylvania, fell to the Russo-Romanian army after a fierce battle that reduced the city to rubble. By the end of the month the rest of Transylvania would fall to the Alliance, with King Carlo I annexing the territory for the Kingdom of Romania. Altogether, the enormous losses suffered on the Eastern Front at the hands of the Russians during the winter and spring of 1909 nearly brought Austria-Hungary to her knees. As Russia collected its forces for a push into Hungary, Emperor Maximilian could only hope that the arrival of French reinforcements could save his empire from destruction.

The Relief of Belgrade

As Russian forces pushed into Austro-Hungarian Galicia and Transylvania, a third force arrived in the beleaguered Kingdom of Serbia. The Serbian capital of Belgrade had been under siege by the Ottomans since December of 1908. On May 16, 1909 the siege was finally lifted as Russian General Nikolai Ruzsky and his 116,000 man army evicted the Turks from their positions surrounding the city. The relief of Belgrade insured that Serbia would stay in the Alliance and continue the war.

Russian reinforcements to Prussia

It is also important to note that even as Russia was conducting offensives into Austria-Hungary and the Balkans, the Russian General Staff was also shipping tons of supplies and tens of thousands of troops to the Prussian Front in order to halt the latest French offensive into the Ruhr.

 

[Lean II]

Huzzah! The Alliance counter-attacks supurbely! Another good update form an excellent timeline! Now, does Serbia's continued participation in the War mean that it'll gain some territory come the end, should the Alliance win? Also, I'm quite curious to see the new French offensive, as well as an update on the internal events that are going on in France. How does the public feel about the war? Are there any plans to overthrow Napoleon? If so, is it a Republican coup, or a Monarchist coup? Can't wait for the next update!

 

[Alternatehistoryguy47]

it's about time the Russians got there! now that they have arrived in full force, the Alliance should be able to hold out long enough for the UK and US to arrive without much difficulty

 

[jlckansas]

The US would more than likely be using a Browning designed MG. He built the M1895 Colt Browning that was gas feed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1895_Colt-Browning_machine_gun

Might we see a follow on weapon that Browning might make for the US?

 

[Spengler]

I really hope the Hapsburg's manage to survive this because really their not nearly as bad as France in this situation. That and the fact that their actually semi beneficial for the balkans.

 

[SavoyTruffle]

I really hope the Hapsburg's manage to survive this because really their not nearly as bad as France in this situation. That and the fact that their actually semi beneficial for the balkans.

Agreed; I can see them losing Galicia and Transylvania, but I want to see the rest of their lands intact. Especially that Maximilian is Emperor.

 

[FleetMac]

Regarding the firearms issue, I have three comments:

-The USA ITTL had severe issues with producing enough Springfield rifles for WWI, and I don't see that changing with an earlier declaration of war. In all honesty, the US Army would probably have a mix of Krag-Jorgensons and '03 Springfields depending on availability. The USN/USMC rifle, as others have said, would be the M1895 Lee Navy.

-The primary French rifle at the time IMHO would be the Berthier and not the Lebel, since the Lebel was typically used as a single shot rifle (the tube magazine was NOT conducive to Spitzer-tip bullets), while the Berthier could carry multiple rounds, had better sights AND was far handier and more ergonomic. Alternatively, they had a potential semi-automatic rifle in the Meunier design, food for thought.

-The Prussians also have a potential self-loader in the Mexican Mondragon rifle, in addition to the Mauser family.

 

[Andristan]

Honestly, the main reason the US switched to the Springfield 03 was due to the poor performance of their Krags against the Spanish Mausers during the Spanish-American War. In TTL, that war took place during the early 1870's, as I recall, so both sides would have used different guns, US probably Allin conversion Springfield M1866's or M1873's and the Spanish using their M1871 Remington Rolling-Block rifle. Depending on how the US's weapon performed there, it could have led to the Krag or maybe a Mauser type. If I had to guess, in this Great War the US would be using the Krag-Jorgensen.

 

[Seraph]

The US Army is better funded for most of the late 19th century and with the Spanish American War in the 1870's, the army may decide on a new rifle sooner.

With the Great War going on for a some time and the President spent much of the new century building up the military, I don't think we'll see the Krag still being used if at all.

 

[Bmao]

The US would probably be using some sort of bolt-action rifle similar to that of all the other Great Powers, so assuming that they've kept up with the technical innovations (which I assume happened because of the Custer reforms) I don't see it really changing the strategic picture in any substantial way.

 

[Andristan]

Technically, the Krag-Jorgensen is a bolt action rifle, but with though the Spanish-American war in 1878, I believe, and the US having just adopted the M1873 trapdoor 5 years earlier and if that weapon works well, then by this Great War, the US would have just upgraded to the M1898 Krag, making it their standard issue. Just speculation, but Custer's military reform act probably helped get this gun through, as it was around the correct time IIRC. The Norwegians used the Krag till the 1930s OTL, so its not inconceivable that the US keep their Krags till the Great War, especially without a war against a modern Power that could show up its faults, of which the main one was the potentially slower speed of reloading as compared to a Mauser type stripper clip fed rifle. If anything the Springfield 1903 could go the way of the Brit Pattern 1914 which was a Mauser style rifle modeled on the Boer mausers and in the same caliber.

 

[Andristan]

Here's a site that I have found to be useful in learning about the uniforms and equipment of the belligerents in WWI
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/
Hope this helps.

 

[Seraph]

I suppose the main question is does the Ordnance department still thinks a slower rate of fire(and thus, lower ammo consumption) is an 'advantage'. With the more recent Spanish American war the fact that the military is better funded, it is possible that the people who liked the Krag get butterflied away. This also presumes they start their search in the early 90's and not the 80's or later.
On the other hand, Custer did have the 1897 Military Reform Act. Having the adoption of a new rifle happen in the late 90's may have other rifles like the Mauser start to get ahead like with the 7mm Mauser that the Spanish had in OTL.

For a bigger butterfly, maybe some soldiers buy the M1885 Remington-Lee for their own use in the ITTL Spanish American war and it would leave an impression if not a later adaptation?

 

[Mac Gregor]

Here's a site that I have found to be useful in learning about the uniforms and equipment of the belligerents in WWI
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/
Hope this helps.

Thanks! I also really need a good reliable site on the strength of the Royal Navy in 1914. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Mac Gregor]

Navies of the Great War ​

1909​

Before March, 1909 the Great War had remained primarily a European land based conflict. But now with the United Kingdom and United States having joined the Alliance the war would reach to the farthest oceans of the world. Listed below is a brief summary of the naval strength of the chief belligerent powers.

The Alliance

The Royal Navy

When the United Kingdom entered the war in March of 1909 it possessed the most powerful navy in the world. At the forefront of the fleet were 23 Leviathan class battleships named in honor of the HMS Leviathan which in 1901 revolutionized warship design with its lethal main battery of 12inch guns. In addition to the leviathans the Royal Navy also possessed 33 pre-leviathan design battleships, 9 battle cruisers, 21 town cruisers, 12 scout cruisers, 152 cruisers (pre 1901), 211 destroyers, and 26 submarines. It should also be noted that the figures listed above do not include the navies from the British Dominions.

Royal Naval Ensign

The U.S. Navy

The American Navy had grown rapidly since the Custer reforms of the 1890’s. By 1909 the U.S. Navy could muster a total of 15 leviathan class battleships, 24 pre-leviathan battleships, 13 armored cruisers, 26 protected cruisers, 4 light/scout cruisers, 65 destroyers, and 19 submarines.

49 Star U.S. Naval Jack


The Prussian Navy

Officially known as the Northern German Federal Navy(Norddeutsche Bundesmarine) the Prussian Navy had long been neglected in favor of the Prussian Army. By the time that the United States and Britain entered the war, Prussia had remaining only 2 leviathan class battleships, 5 pre-leviathan battleships, 6 battle cruisers, and 34 destroyers. Taking note of the French navy’s use of submarines however, Prussia did manage to field a respectable 42 submarines for use in the North Sea.

Prussian Marine Jack


The Russian Navy

After suffering serious losses in the war against Japan, by 1909 the Russian Empire possessed only 2 leviathan battleships, 3 pre-leviathan battleships, 10 cruisers, 19 destroyers, 8 submarines, and 47 torpedo boats.

Imperial Russian Naval Jack


The Entente

The Imperial French Navy

Although clearly behind the Royal Navy, the Imperial French Navy was still a formidable fighting force. It consisted of 14 leviathan battleships, 22 pre-leviathan battleships, 30 coast defense ships, 25 armored cruisers, 120 destroyers, and 79 submarines.

Imperial French Naval Ensign

The Austro-Hungarian Navy

In 1909 the Austro-Hungarian navy had a total of 48 vessels consisting of 3 leviathan battleships, 7 pre-leviathan battleships, 4 coast defense ships, 3 armored cruisers. 5 light/scout cruisers, 23 destroyers, and 3 submarines. Since the capitulation of Italy, the Austro-Hungarian Navy has helped blockade Greece and assisted the Ottomans in actions against the Russian’s Black Sea Fleet.

Austro-Hungarian Naval Ensign

The Ottoman Navy

The Ottoman navy was clearly the weakest of the Entente powers. By 1909, the Turkish navy consisted only of 3 pre-leviathan battleships, 2 coastal defense ship, 3 protected cruisers, 9 destroyers, and no submarines. For much of the war the Ottoman Navy has been defending the Dardanelles, while from time to time making raids into the Aegean and Black seas.

Ottoman Naval Ensign

Imperial Japanese Navy
Despite loses at the hands of the Russians, by 1909 the Imperial Japanese navy still managed to possess 2 leviathan class battleships, 6 pre-leviathan class battleships, 4 coast defense ships, 7 armored cruisers, 13 protected cruisers, 3 light cruisers, 43 destroyers, and 11 submarines.

Imperial Japanese Naval Ensign

 

[SavoyTruffle]

Nice flags.

Though it bugs me that an anti-Napoleonic alliance is still merely the Alliance, Wouldn't Coalition be better?

In retrospect they could call it the War of the Eighth Coalition.

 

[FleetMac]

Interesting update on naval forces, I can't help but wonder whether we'll see any sub-on-sub action between France and perhaps Prussia

Slightly off topic; there's 49 stars on the US Naval Jack, but by my count there's only 47 states in the Union. Are Santo Domingo and Puerto Rico states by now or am I way off?