The Union Forever: A TL
- Thread starter Mac Gregor
- Start date
Feelings on this TL ?
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to try a get a vibe on the general feeling about this TL. It doesn't seem to be generating many comments (with the notable exception of SilverSwimmer), and I was wondering if people thought it was worthwhile to continue or if the TL seems to implausible or just plain boring. Thanks
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to try a get a vibe on the general feeling about this TL. It doesn't seem to be generating many comments (with the notable exception of SilverSwimmer), and I was wondering if people thought it was worthwhile to continue or if the TL seems to implausible or just plain boring. Thanks
John Farson
Banned
By all means continue. I too am liking this TL. It's also refreshing to read a ACW TL here where the South does worse instead of better than OTL, there are too many of those, IMHO. As it is, I've always thought that it was a minor miracle that the Confederates lasted as long as they did OTL, considering everything that was arrayed against them.
Mac,
Just found this and it is very interesting and well written. Please continue. Out of curiosity with the Union doing so much better earlier how is the Confederate raiding on Union shipping going? The same as OTL or with the military losses suffered by the South have the commerce raiders curtailed their actions?
Thanks for the support. I haven't given much thought on Confederate naval raiding, so I am glad you brought it up. At this point in the TL the Confederate Blockade runners should be doing about the same or maybe just a bit worse than in OTL. I will try to include something on naval developments in the near future. Cheers.
I had the same problem with my TL. It just takes a little while to finally get a following going. Plus many times people read the TL but do not comment.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Loving the TL -- wondering if anything like the Emancipation Proclamation of OTL is in the making? Does the Union doing this well, this early, lead to a slower end to the institution of slavery?
You're welcome. I well remember when I had the time to write my own TL where aside from a few loyal followers not many people commented (to be fair not many people know stuff about a divergent middle ages from the get-go) and at times it could be disheartening.
I'm curious though with the South doing so poorly on land if nations like Great Britain would allow ships like CSS Alabama to be built at all. Why antagonize a nation that is somewhat friendly that shares a long land border against a poorly defended 'colony'? Sure it might be undergoing some internal strife but it seems to have it well in hand for the most part. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Tis true. I never really held it against people as it really depends on the topic. If you don't know much about it at all...well you can only post "great job! Keep it coming." so many times before it just becomes repetitive. Sure it is great to get them but you really want some insightful responses to help you out of writers' block, move the TL in new direction, help it keep it plausible, etc.
This is an interesting timeline. Seems like Bragg will be dealt a blow around Nashville simaler to OTL when Thomas took out Hood around Nashville in 1864.
Lee is holding onto to dear life.
I am all for the Union, but is there a way for the South and General Lee to win at least one important battle?
Lee is holding onto to dear life.
I am all for the Union, but is there a way for the South and General Lee to win at least one important battle?
Great stuff.
I'm guessing that the idea of 'paper-collar easterners' isn't going to get much currency in this TL.
Obviously I'm looking quite a bit ahead of the actual TL, but I'm wondering if a somewhat less bloody and more successful Union Civil War will lead to a more bellicose America, one that gets into colonial ventures or is a little more pushy with the European powes quicker than OTL.
I'm guessing that the idea of 'paper-collar easterners' isn't going to get much currency in this TL.
Obviously I'm looking quite a bit ahead of the actual TL, but I'm wondering if a somewhat less bloody and more successful Union Civil War will lead to a more bellicose America, one that gets into colonial ventures or is a little more pushy with the European powes quicker than OTL.
*SPOILERS*
Thanks for the support. This TL, despite its current appearance, is not intended to be a Union-wank. The South has, and will continue to win battles, although I can't promise Lee will be at the helm.
I am wondering the same thing myself, and I could easily see things moving in that direction.
Good question. I will be dealing with this TL's handling of slavery soon. The TL will probably not have an Emancipation Proclamation but something may arise. What do you think?
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Well, while the Union is in less dire straights, the war has been going on for about as long as it had when the Proclamation was introduced OTL; I just can't help but think it would be a huge blunder to allow states to declare war on the US in the demand to preserve and extend slavery, then not touch the institution in those treasonous states.
I'm hoping Abe will still push the Proclamation -- same as OTL, only it looks like here it wouldn't apply to Virginia since most of the state has been brought back into the Union.
This TL is quite good thus far, despite the short updates (not that *I* should be complaining about *that*!). The scenario is rather interesting, since it's one of those "WI the winners of some war won faster and easier?" which are rare. Very plausible-feeling. Now, I have a couple of questions about the future:
With a (presumably) faster and less costly Union victory, mightn't the effects on the country of the war be less? IOTL, defeat was only achieved by really grinding down the South with superior men and materiel, not through any great deal of cleverness on the battlefield. In my estimation, that let Southerners feel that "If only our leaders had been better...", thereby reducing feelings of reconciliations, while at the same time engendering resentful feelings on the part of the North (especially considering how politically powerful the GAR was later). So, you might avoid Radical Republicanism, which while it will lead to severe human costs (in terms of Jim Crow), might lead to benefits in terms of being able to integrate Southerners and Northerners.
I would also like to echo the question of the commenter above who wondered if the Union might be a bit more adventurous in the post-war era, for example by directly intervening in Mexico (they only threatened intervention IOTL) or setting up colonies in Africa, eg. Liberia.
Finally, I'd like to see a bit more about the Western Theater.
With a (presumably) faster and less costly Union victory, mightn't the effects on the country of the war be less? IOTL, defeat was only achieved by really grinding down the South with superior men and materiel, not through any great deal of cleverness on the battlefield. In my estimation, that let Southerners feel that "If only our leaders had been better...", thereby reducing feelings of reconciliations, while at the same time engendering resentful feelings on the part of the North (especially considering how politically powerful the GAR was later). So, you might avoid Radical Republicanism, which while it will lead to severe human costs (in terms of Jim Crow), might lead to benefits in terms of being able to integrate Southerners and Northerners.
I would also like to echo the question of the commenter above who wondered if the Union might be a bit more adventurous in the post-war era, for example by directly intervening in Mexico (they only threatened intervention IOTL) or setting up colonies in Africa, eg. Liberia.
Finally, I'd like to see a bit more about the Western Theater.
*SPOILERS*
Thanks for your support. I am still working on what the Civil Rights condition of Blacks will be after the war. But Yes, in this TL it will be easier for the North and South to reintegrate after the war. And as far as the Western Theater is concerned, I will be posting more updates.
The Relief of Nashville
The Relief of Nashville
Major General Henry Halleck
Department of the Missouri, Commander
Major General Henry Halleck
Department of the Missouri, Commander
As Bragg’s army continued to lay siege to Nashville following the failed assault on the city, the Union amassed reinforcements on the north bank of the Cumberland River. The besieged Buell was soon joined by Major General Henry Halleck the commander of the Department of the Missouri and troops from the eastern part of the state. By August 20, Bragg realized that he was now facing a much larger force. Ruling out another assault, Bragg contemplated withdrawing to Chattanooga, Tennessee before he became hopelessly outnumbered. However, orders from President Davis not the retreat and the very real fear that he would be relieved if he did prompted him to continue to dither and bombard the city.
On the morning of August 22, Buell and Halleck launched their assault against the Confederates entrenched on the outskirts of the city. Bragg’s army performed rather well and made the Federals pay dearly for any ground gained. However by 2:45 p.m. superior Union numbers and the shortage of Confederate artillery shells forced Bragg to withdraw his army. Although Bragg’s performance at Nashville has left much to criticize, Bragg did manage to facilitate an orderly withdraw allowing most of the Army of Mississippi to retreat in good order.
It is also worth noting that following the victory, Halleck ordered one of the regimental bands to play the song Battle Cry of Freedom which would in later years and after some alterations become the national anthem of the United States. (Original lyrics listed below)
“Yes we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,
We will rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
(Chorus)
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;
While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call with a million freemen more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill our vacant ranks of our brothers gone before,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Chorus
We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although he may be poor, not a man shall be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Chorus
So we're springing to the call from the East and from the West,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love best,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!"
Chorus
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;
While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call with a million freemen more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill our vacant ranks of our brothers gone before,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Chorus
We will welcome to our numbers the loyal, true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And although he may be poor, not a man shall be a slave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Chorus
So we're springing to the call from the East and from the West,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love best,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!"
Chorus
Last edited: