The Sloppiest Alternate Histories Out There...
- Thread starter count palatine
- Start date
I wouldn't call it pure hogwash in the case of TL-191. For all its faults, Turtledove's series at least gets it right that an independent CSA would be a monstrous state, outclassed by its northern neighbor and trending towards despotism, whether it manumitted slaves into a position of non-citizen quasi-slaves or not.
Here's the thing for me. The first book was ridiculous. The men who fought the Civil War abolish slavery? Hogwash. The UK becomes a natural, clingy, forthright ally during the height of Victorian balance of power, keep your distance politics? Hogwash. The United States goes back to being a basically disarmed state in the face of losing a war and a hostile Confederacy on its doorstep? Hogwash.
Even if you like the idea of the South evolving into authoritarian, apartheid state -- and that is a good call -- the foundation upon which that evolution is built was fundamentally flawed. Furthermore, I don't think it's imaginative to have WW1 play out almost exactly as it did in Europe in North America, a literal carbon copy. Even that was a bad call on factual grounds, given that the front was many times larger than the Western Front in WW1.
The whole thing required too many contrived, anti-factual or anti-logical ideas that weren't explained in even the slightest to get from point to point. The best that could be said of the story is that it was lazy.
Even if you like the idea of the South evolving into authoritarian, apartheid state -- and that is a good call -- the foundation upon which that evolution is built was fundamentally flawed. Furthermore, I don't think it's imaginative to have WW1 play out almost exactly as it did in Europe in North America, a literal carbon copy. Even that was a bad call on factual grounds, given that the front was many times larger than the Western Front in WW1.
The whole thing required too many contrived, anti-factual or anti-logical ideas that weren't explained in even the slightest to get from point to point. The best that could be said of the story is that it was lazy.
Greetings,
I thought I share what I think are just sloppy and lazily constructed alternate timelines made for various medias. Two come to mind...
Rex Mundi - this is a shame, because I heard good things about this supernatural/Da Vinci Code-ish comic book series. But the divergence point for this world is that Martin Luther was assassinated by the Church before the Reformation could really take hold; however, Europe looks too much like OTL 1900s Europe and there is even a Confederate States of America and Federal Republic of America in this timeline. How can 19th century United States exist in a world where protestantism didn't take hold in England?
Code Geass - This is everywhere on the map. There are three distinct divergences; first when the Britons repelled the Roman Empire, second when Elizabeth I had a son to call an heir, and third when the American Revolution was crushed by the British. Then there's Napoleon chasing the absolutist British royal family from the British Isles to the Americas, or "Britannia". This seems rather implausible. But not as much as Ben Franklin being bribed with an earldom; it doesn't matter what he's like in real life, he would never be that big of a douche.
What you you call sloppy AUs?
Well, to be honest with you, even a few mostly decent TLs like DoD, Sobel's For Want of a Nail(one of my personal favorites, btw), Stirling's Draka series, and Turtledove's TL-191 and Worldwar series definitely have some areas that really could have been done a lot better, IMHO(especially TL-191, the Draka, and DoD to a lesser extent but there's others, too).
However, though, I definitely agree with the OP re: Code Geass-Fun concept, but execution was flawed at best, and probably the worst of all the examples I've listed thus far in that regard; it really IS kinda sloppy.....even Stirling did better, TBH.
And don't get me started on the huge numbers of completely slap-dash TLs on places like the AltHistory Wikia, and even on YouTube, too(don't believe me? Do a search sometime)
Edit: Now that I think of it, the universe of "CSA: the Movie" counts, too: no way could the C.S.A. have conquered the entire north, then Mexico, and THEN most of Central & South America, and have been able to survive to the present day, especially with slavery never having been phased out. Kevin Willmott's concept was an interesting one but not that plausible when it comes down to it; Turtledove's "Southern Victory" was much better by far.
Also, for those who have some time to kill, you can watch it all on YouTube, if you'd like. Here:
CSA: The Movie
Last edited:
That is true. If something is cool and fleshed-out and implausible, it is better than just having Thr Socialist World Republic every time.
But as I said, someone should make high-quality AH power points.
I've wanted to do something like that, but I wouldn't know where to start or what to say, and I don't have a lot of time for that anyway, given how behind I am on my TLs.
I've wanted to do something like that, but I wouldn't know where to start or what to say, and I don't have a lot of time for that anyway, given how behind I am on my TLs.
I don't think it would be that hard, just make a PowerPoint, it would actually be a good way to come up with quick scenarios.
I can thinks of words but they probably violate the membership agreement...
I was about to post that actually.
I actually don't think this video is that bad, but just funny because of how hilariously stupid it is.
To be fair, this wasn't indented to be taken seriously as alternate history. FYI, it was from some (now defunct) British online political show called 18 Doughty Street. It's just really in your face pro American propaganda. There was actually a thread about this video some years back. I saw it once and looking back, its kinda hard to believe people got so upset about it, since its not even supposed to be taken seriously as AH and all.
Oh, aside from the goofy history, one of the funniest parts is how it's the same actor playing each of the news guys in every single shot.
Also, according to him, Rome conquering the Germanic tribes would have brought them into confrontation with China...
I think it's because that, despite the fact it isn't really meant to be alternate history, it does attempt to use counter-factuals to prove that the world would be a worse place without America, and does so terribly.
Oh, aside from the goofy history, one of the funniest parts is how it's the same actor playing each of the news guys in every single shot.
A World Without America: Butterfly Extinction, Soviet Domination, and Eternal Youth.
I would of thought that the 'Slightly more seriously...' line of the very next sentence would kind of suggested that I wasn't being all that serious, but I guess not for everyone. Eh.
I think it's because that, despite the fact it isn't really meant to be alternate history, it does attempt to use counter-factuals to prove that the world would be a worse place without America, and does so terribly.
A World Without America: Butterfly Extinction, Soviet Domination, and Eternal Youth.
I agree, it uses counterfactuals pretty terribly, which is why it's funny IMO.
I mean the US doesn't exist for no reason, and I'm supposed to believe half the stuff the say in that vid? I could see where they were going with the Soviet domination and Israel destroyed, but they could have explained it a helluvalot better with, I don't know, real facts. 
Jesus Christ that's terrible. I think I caught the dumb from it.