The Revenge of the Crown : An Alternate 1812 and Beyond.
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
any predictions for mexico from here on out? Really am curious since it has been quite the while since we spoke about mexico in this thread. If i am not mistaken @Northstar was most taken with mexico.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Well Mexico seems to have squared a very large circle by getting both UK and Spain onside. I also have not heard any problems similar to OTL debts which will butterfly French and to a lesser extent British potential intervention. Having a potential neo-Bonapartiste party will be interesting as will the syncretic approach to native population.
The destabilising factor will be the California gold rush. Suddenly everyone will be looking at a sparsely populated pieces of real estate and reconsidering previous treaties. I don't think the British will get involved (TBH they will be overstretched what with all their other commitments around the world) but the American Union will probably see it as a heaven sent opportunity to reset their moribund economy. Probably through government sponsored bushwackers and filibusters but that will spiral quickly out of control.
A war between Mexico and American Union, even without direct UK involvement (logistics support to Mexico and blockade only) is unlikely to go well for the American Union and a failure to beat the Mexicans could precipitate the fall of the American Union government. I'm not sure that Mexico will hold all of California until modern times though - you may get a UK vs Boers style war where the Boers (Mexicans) win round one but ultimately America should be too strong for them to resist in a second war.
The destabilising factor will be the California gold rush. Suddenly everyone will be looking at a sparsely populated pieces of real estate and reconsidering previous treaties. I don't think the British will get involved (TBH they will be overstretched what with all their other commitments around the world) but the American Union will probably see it as a heaven sent opportunity to reset their moribund economy. Probably through government sponsored bushwackers and filibusters but that will spiral quickly out of control.
A war between Mexico and American Union, even without direct UK involvement (logistics support to Mexico and blockade only) is unlikely to go well for the American Union and a failure to beat the Mexicans could precipitate the fall of the American Union government. I'm not sure that Mexico will hold all of California until modern times though - you may get a UK vs Boers style war where the Boers (Mexicans) win round one but ultimately America should be too strong for them to resist in a second war.
Is there no sizable Indian community? One developed in other British Asian colonies like Malaysia Singapore and Fiji
China: no Britain, you can't keep Formosa
Britain: how 'bout I do, anyway
Is there a Qing government-in-exile on Formosa, or something?
Britain: how 'bout I do, anyway
Is there a Qing government-in-exile on Formosa, or something?
How much is a pound in this timeline worth in 2020? I have been converting the currencies into something I can understand using otl exchange rates. Is this a good proxy?
Given that I missed the previous chapter before this one, figured I'd may as well go and make my thoughts from Chapter 40 onwards:
- Dragon Ball Pineapple: With no American plans of conquest, we may see a successful Kamehameha dynasty, or at least one that doesn't die out as it did IOTL. At least that's my hope, given we know Hawai'i will be around in the present-day TTL.
- Confucian Heavenly Kingdom: Not gonna lie, I didn't know that the line of Confucius was still around at the time, given how long that family has been around. Would be honestly fitting that his distant descendants gets a turn on the Heavenly Throne. The fact that the Qing Emperor traded Formosa for aid against the Tian was a mistake, and given that Formosa still remained in British hands to this very day, well I guess it's a clue to say that the Qing still loses in the end.
- Graverobbing the Imperial Graveyards: I'm going to go against the grain and say Afghanistan will still end up being a buffer zone, I don't think Afghanistan will be conquered, but I could see it being a protectorate separate of the Brits not unlike what happened post-Second Anglo-Afghan War, much earlier than OTL's Second Anglo-Afghan War.
- A White Raj Reborn: I wonder if the Kingdom of Sarawak ends up surviving enough to warrant its survival rather than becoming a British colonial state as per OTL.
- Fencing In Brazil: Amazonas is going to end up being a bad idea to attack for Brazil. Yes, the souring of relations between Portugal and Brazil will suck, but would it really be worth it? Uruguay is a more tempting target all and all, Sweden-Norway I don't expect to overtake the Brazilian Navy on paper, but in practice, it's kinda up in the air.
- Sod off, Jackson: Seriously, sod off Jackson. I do not know how many thousands of people he had condemned to death but goddamn, karma needs to deliver soon. And while on the subject of the UAU...
- The United Provinces of the Americas: A Confederal Republic in the American Union to replace the United American Union. (which let's be real, the formal name is redundant as all hell) I'm sold, especially since it is my favorite government type in EU4, despite the fact that Burgundy can eat a nut. But will the AU essentially copy the Dutch Republican form of governance in near full capacity (i.e. a confederal Republic with each state probably has far more powers than the OTL U.S. ever had, and territories largely under the dominion of the federal government?)
- And that made war inevitable: This will probably be the most serious crack to the Jackson administration, as it's unlikely that Jackson probably realizes that, for as poor an administrator Itrubide is, a war with Mexico will mean war with Britain, something I'm sure even James Polk IOTL would've regretted, and he was as much an asshole as Jackson was IOTL, which is to say, a better person than Jackson ITTL.
If Mexico is bringing the British, Spaniards, and even Louisianans round to their side, the Mexican American War is shaping up into a rather decisive thing.
What s the situation on the ground in Utah ITTL?
The Atlanta Massacre affirms Coffee won't be remembered well, he and Gaines were both union heroes in the Civil War but their paths in the Destitute Era have been opposites. Especially as he did it for a regime that almost gave him the boot despite his previous long loyal service. Aside from the planters, who is really supporting the Jackson regime now?
I take it Grant and the other are AU 'brothers' of the figures we know?
I am also in the camp that Afghanistan will not long be held. Besides Britain seems due for some egg on the face.
I will be curious to see what the Americans are doing in the Prairie, as it will be a major theater for the coming war.
What s the situation on the ground in Utah ITTL?
The Atlanta Massacre affirms Coffee won't be remembered well, he and Gaines were both union heroes in the Civil War but their paths in the Destitute Era have been opposites. Especially as he did it for a regime that almost gave him the boot despite his previous long loyal service. Aside from the planters, who is really supporting the Jackson regime now?
I take it Grant and the other are AU 'brothers' of the figures we know?
I am also in the camp that Afghanistan will not long be held. Besides Britain seems due for some egg on the face.
I will be curious to see what the Americans are doing in the Prairie, as it will be a major theater for the coming war.
If British and Louisianans join than AU can say goodbye to all their territories west of mississippi river, which will butterfly away wild west.
Thing is the Americans don't need to be mad. Just one American, Jackson. And he seems to be losing it already with his policies.
neo-syncretist approach will be interesting, especially considering Napoleon II married a native Mayan ittl.
Yup, the Californian Gold Rush will be a double edged sword. Riches, yet population outflow will be going on in record numbers.
That would be pretty interesting no doubt, a boer analogue.....
india is going along a very different path ittl reducing the need for indian immigration to other British colonies ittl.
Actually by the time we get to 1939 ittl, i have something planned for 1939 regarding the Formosa issue. And its going to be fun!
Yes more or less. The Pound rate ittl will be a few notches higher than otl, but rounding up you will get the same range.
Hawaii has an interesting future ahead of itself here. As much as i detest incest, historically or in modern day sense both, the queen ittl was the sister Kamehameha III wanted to marry otl but couldn't due to her dying. She had so many bright ideas and long term ideas that her premature death seemed like a waste to me.
Indeed. Actually the House of Confucius is still kinda around today in Taiwan
I haven't spoken about the results of the war and my lips are sealed on that, however the only thing i am negating here is the reputation that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires even in modern times.
A protectorate would be more appropriate methinks.
Sweden-Norway's navy was actually very powerful during the 19th century. It was their army that was the loose end
hehe the Dutch Republican style that DUAY is adopting (Stadholder, Aristocratic Democracy etc) should be enough of a hint.
yeah even Polk is a better guy than jackson ittl.
kind off yes. However it's not very successful, considering the immigrants want to live in rich lands, and not far off poor borderlands.
Spain is not allied with Mexico. Only relations are becoming better
Sparsely populated area with road connections to the rest of Mexico.
The oligarchs filling their pockets with the money Jackson is making for them.
that is to be forseen
Prairie development will be covered in a future chapter.