The Queen is Dead!: Katherine of Aragon dies in 1518

Look marrying Elizabeth was the only way for Henry to conquer and hold the English Crown.
Without the support of the Yorkist edwardians (aka the ones who do not supported Richard III as King) Henry would never be able to win England
Did I not say: "... it at least makes sense to me dynastically."?

How come Henry to Liz seems weird to you? Aha
But personally, if I've been living in exile for 15 years the last thing I would want to do upon returning is marry the daughter of a former Chief Executive who for 12 of those 15 years of the exile wanted me executed. And it doesn't really matter that much to me personally that the logic of the enemy of my enemy is my friend has kicked in by that point. Its just plain weird to my 20th/21st century morals. I guess I'm just odd that way.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Did I not say: "... it at least makes sense to me dynastically."?


But personally, if I've been living in exile for 15 years the last thing I would want to do upon returning is marry the daughter of a former Chief Executive who for 12 of those 15 years of the exile wanted me executed. And it doesn't really matter that much to me personally that the logic of the enemy of my enemy is my friend has kicked in by that point. Its just plain weird to my 20th/21st century morals. I guess I'm just odd that way.

Is it weird that such a thing doesn’t seem weird to me? Even with said morals?
 
Did I not say: "... it at least makes sense to me dynastically."?


But personally, if I've been living in exile for 15 years the last thing I would want to do upon returning is marry the daughter of a former Chief Executive who for 12 of those 15 years of the exile wanted me executed. And it doesn't really matter that much to me personally that the logic of the enemy of my enemy is my friend has kicked in by that point. Its just plain weird to my 20th/21st century morals. I guess I'm just odd that way.

Is it weird that such a thing doesn’t seem weird to me? Even with said morals?
I also do not think it weird

Just remember that in the court of Henry VIII, feelings are feelings, politics is something else, and only the KING can afford to mix the two together.
 
Section LXII - March 1521
George knew he shouldn’t really be staring at the Queen in such consternation, but he couldn’t help it. His shock had temporarily overridden his usual adherence to protocol.

“You want me to marry Katherine Stafford? Katherine Stafford?”

“Yes.”

“Her father tried to have you poisoned! He did poison Anne! Annie! Our little sister! And now you want me to marry his daughter?!”

“Yes!” Marie rose to her feet, cutting her brother off. She understood his qualms, had had them herself at first, even though it had been her idea. But this really was the best way of both rewarding Kathy for her current loyalty and also providing something that should dissuade her – and indeed any of her family - from ever trying to move against the King or the Howards in the future.

She put her hand out to her younger brother, “Please, George. I know I said I’d let you marry the girl you wanted to rather than whoever Papa wanted to foist on you, but this is different. This is about keeping myself safe, keeping Annie safe, keeping my child safe. Keeping all of us safe. Can’t you help me do that? Don’t you want to help me do that?”

“Of course, but...”

“Good. Then you’ll marry Kathy Stafford at Easter and I’ll hear no more about it.”

“Easter! But that’s barely a couple of weeks away!” George exclaimed. Marie said nothing, merely looked at him in that steady way that she had always had, even when she was merely his older sister in the nursery and not his Queen. Flushing under her scrutiny, George swallowed back his retort and nodded. Once she had his agreement, Marie softened instantly.

“I’m sorry, George. But it really is the only way. Try not to take it out on Kathy, won’t you? She’s got no more choice in the matter than you do, and she’s been through so much already.”

George struggled with himself for a few moments and then nodded.

“I’ll try not to do it more than I can help,” he said reluctantly, “If you’ll do one thing for me.”

“Name it and I’ll see what I can do,” Marie promised. She owed him that, at least.

“You get the pleasure of telling Papa that his only heir is marrying a traitor’s daughter.”

Marie grimaced and was about to say something when Lady Sarah suddenly pushed the door open.

“Pardon the intrusion, Madam, but I thought you’d want to know. Lady Anne’s fever’s broken.”

Marie and George exchanged glances. A second later, they were racing to get past Sarah, protocol – and Marie’s need to take care - forgotten as they both strove to be the first at their younger sister’s bedside.

*** *** ***​
Anne blinked, stirred and murmured. Her eyes flickered groggily open and she took in her surroundings, trying to work out what had happened. The last thing she remembered before fevered dreams was Marie’s white face as she, Anne, collapsed to the floor, shaking.

“Marie? Mama?” she called out softly, her throat sore from disuse.

“Annie!” Her mother sprang up and hurried over, “How are you feeling, sweetheart?”

Anne didn’t answer at first, not sure what to say, “How long have I been asleep?” she asked.

“A week. You’ve had us all worried to within an inch of our lives. The fever was so high...we thought we were going to lose you, Annie.”

To Anne’s surprise, her mother’s voice shook. Blinking again, she realised there were tears in the older woman’s eyes.

She wasn’t sure how to respond. She’d never been close to her mother. Well, maybe she had, once, but six years in France had all but shattered their bond; had meant Anne’s maternal figures had been Marie and Duchess Marguerite rather than Lady Elizabeth Boleyn nee Howard. It was gratifying to know her birth mother cared for her, but to know she cared so much...Anne bit her lip before deciding to pretend the moment had never happened.

“Can I sit up, Lady Mother?”

“Of course!” Elizabeth looked startled, as though she’d been far away in thought, but she helped Anne sit up, supporting her with first her arms and then with silken pillows before turning briefly away from the bed.

“Edith. Tell the Queen Lady Anne’s awake,” she ordered, “And the rest of you, out! They’ll want some privacy.”

There was a half-audible response and then footsteps. A few moments later, Marie appeared, a jesting smile on her lips.

“Well, well, little sister. Decided to re-join us in the land of the living after all, have you?”

“You should know by now. It’ll take more than some belladonna and a mustard-induced fever to get rid of me,” Anne returned.

Yet their joking banter couldn’t hide the relief in Marie’s eyes at seeing her little sister alive and conscious, nor Anne’s desire to feel her sister’s arms around her, a wish that was soon granted as the older Boleyn sister settled herself beside Anne on the bed, leaning against the rosewood headboard to support herself, her arm around Anne’s waist.

“So what have I missed?” Anne asked, her dark head against the shoulder of Marie’s ivory gown, somehow instinctively knowing that, just for today, the rules of protocol were broken between the two of them.

“Well, not many people know yet, but our brother has been betrothed to Lady Katherine Stafford.”

“Buckingham’s daughter?” Anne raised her eyebrows, “That’s quite a coup. Papa must be cockahoop.”

Marie scoffed, “If only. Buckingham is the one who poisoned you. He paid a boy to lace the wine. His daughter told us – admitted she’d overheard him plotting. Henry had him confined to the Tower within minutes of finding out. Lady Katherine’s marriage to George is her reward for turning her father in.”

“But that means George is marrying a traitor’s daughter!” Anne’s jaw dropped, “Not that I don’t understand your reasoning, Marie, but how did you get Papa to agree to that!”

Marie blew out her cheeks, “He doesn’t actually know yet. I’ve been putting that conversation off. Anyway,” she continued hurriedly, “They’re to marry at Easter and Princess Mary is coming back to Court for the celebrations. Henry is talking of having her stay on this time around, so she can meet her brother when he arrives.”

“The King’s still adamant your child will be a boy then?”

“Of course he is. I daren’t try to talk him down from his confidence, but I fear what might happen if this child isn’t a boy.”

“It will be,” Anne said confidently, “You’ve given the King every other one of his heart’s desires. Why shouldn’t you give him this one?”

“I wish it were that simple!” Marie laughed.

Anne knew she ought to be paying heed to what Marie was saying, but her attention had uncharacteristically wandered. Sitting up gave her a better vantage point from which to view the room and, now that she was no longer quite so focused on Marie, had realised there was someone slumped in a chair in the corner. He was fast asleep, which explained why her mother hadn’t thrown him out as well.

“Marie,” she whispered, “What’s Henry Percy doing here?”

“What does it look like? He’s keeping watch over you. He has not left your room for a week. Not without a royal command. You can imagine what Mama's reaction was to that. Half my ladies have been on chaperone rotation in here!”

“You mean...Harry’s been here all the time?” Anne couldn’t help flushing. Marie clearly had to fight back a chuckle as she pushed Anne’s matted hair out of her eyes.

“Ever since he found out you were ill. If you ask me, he knows exactly what, or rather, who, he wants in life.”

“Me?” Anne laughed, “Don’t be ridiculous! Yes, we get on well, yes, maybe you could even say we care for each other, but I’d hardly say I’m Countess material!”

“Let’s give it a year or two,” Marie laughed, before kissing Anne’s forehead and sliding awkwardly off the bed, “I’m going to get Dr Linacre to take a look at you.”

Anne stifled a groan. She hated medical examinations.

Yet somehow, this one was quicker and pleasanter than she expected it to be. And it wasn’t because Dr Linacre was shirking his duties, either.

No. It was Anne’s daydreams of what life would be like, were she Harry’s Countess and Lady of Alnwick that made the time pass more quickly than usual.
 
Awwwh very nice scene - nice to see Anne awake again.

Feel sorry for George here, but I hope he ends up loving Katherine.

Good for you Henry P.
 
I’m more concerned for the Queen if the future child is a girl.

Well, at least she won't have spent seven years promising the King a son only to fail to deliver ITTL. That's something.

Awwwh very nice scene - nice to see Anne awake again.

Feel sorry for George here, but I hope he ends up loving Katherine.

Good for you Henry P.

Yes, I do like Harry Percy! I put the bit about Elizabeth Boleyn's reaction and Marie's ladies being on chaperone rotation in for @High Plains Drifter's sake. I thought it was the kind of thing a teasing older sister would say.

As for George and Kathy? I can promise they'll bond over their children, if nothing else.
 
Yes, I do like Harry Percy! I put the bit about Elizabeth Boleyn's reaction and Marie's ladies being on chaperone rotation in for @High Plains Drifter's sake.
I am a bully. [hang's head in shame]

Lovely scenes. And I particularly appreciated the reaction to George's betrothal that you gave Anne; laughing out loud at her lukewarm (public) reaction to Percy being in her room. "Don’t be ridiculous! Yes, we get on well, yes, maybe you could even say we care for each other ..."

Will we get a scene with George telling his father about the proposed betrothal with Katherine Stafford? I can see Thomas Boleyn very, very rapidly going through a modified seven stages of grief as he processes the news.
1) Shock - "What? My son and heir marry a traitor's daughter?"
2) Denial - "This can't be true. The King would never permit this?"
3) Bargaining - "I will speak to the King myself. I'll pray night and day to all the Saint to make Mary birth him a half dozen sons if he denies this travesty."
4) Guilt - "What evil did I do that I deserve this stain upon my house?"
5) Anger - "Never! I will not permit it. The King may strip me of my titles. I care not."
6) Depression - "I will return to Blickling Hall in disgrace and never step out again into the light of day."
7) Hope - "Errr, once Buckingham is executed for his treason. Though she is only the second daughter, what lands and sinecures you think Lady Katherine might bring into the marriage?"
 
I’m more concerned for the Queen if the future child is a girl.
There's a lot of potential drama if the child is a girl, but I'm actually hoping it's a boy. Not for Marie's sake or anyone else's, but because I don't think there's been a lot of exploration of what Henry had planned if he actually got what he wanted. We know how the story is apt to go if Marie can't produce a male heir. Here, if Henry has a son, he's married a woman of his own choosing, he's become a glorious conquering king, secured the succession, and is unchallenged politically.

...So then what? It almost seems like Henry would be at a loss for what to do next. He'd be free to do all sorts of impressive things in terms of state-building, religious policy, and diplomatic alignments; but Henry doesn't seem like a Big Ideas man. Presumably, he's going to need someone else to advise or provoke him into action if he accomplished everything he thought he wanted/needed to do.
 
There's a lot of potential drama if the child is a girl, but I'm actually hoping it's a boy. Not for Marie's sake or anyone else's, but because I don't think there's been a lot of exploration of what Henry had planned if he actually got what he wanted. We know how the story is apt to go if Marie can't produce a male heir. Here, if Henry has a son, he's married a woman of his own choosing, he's become a glorious conquering king, secured the succession, and is unchallenged politically.

...So then what? It almost seems like Henry would be at a loss for what to do next. He'd be free to do all sorts of impressive things in terms of state-building, religious policy, and diplomatic alignments; but Henry doesn't seem like a Big Ideas man. Presumably, he's going to need someone else to advise or provoke him into action if he accomplished everything he thought he wanted/needed to do.

I have lots of family drama planned for Henry. Although I do need to do something with Normandy... Ah well, that's for the decade in the middle that I haven't planned out yet...
 
I am a bully. [hang's head in shame]

Lovely scenes. And I particularly appreciated the reaction to George's betrothal that you gave Anne; laughing out loud at her lukewarm (public) reaction to Percy being in her room. "Don’t be ridiculous! Yes, we get on well, yes, maybe you could even say we care for each other ..."

Will we get a scene with George telling his father about the proposed betrothal with Katherine Stafford? I can see Thomas Boleyn very, very rapidly going through a modified seven stages of grief as he processes the news.
1) Shock - "What? My son and heir marry a traitor's daughter?"
2) Denial - "This can't be true. The King would never permit this?"
3) Bargaining - "I will speak to the King myself. I'll pray night and day to all the Saint to make Mary birth him a half dozen sons if he denies this travesty."
4) Guilt - "What evil did I do that I deserve this stain upon my house?"
5) Anger - "Never! I will not permit it. The King may strip me of my titles. I care not."
6) Depression - "I will return to Blickling Hall in disgrace and never step out again into the light of day."
7) Hope - "Errr, once Buckingham is executed for his treason. Though she is only the second daughter, what lands and sinecures you think Lady Katherine might bring into the marriage?"

Papa Boleyn will find out, but George is making Marie tell him. He knows only too well that his father won't take it well and thinks the unwanted message had better come from the royal child... Well, that and he's a coward where his father is concerned...
 
As for George and Kathy? I can promise they'll bond over their children, if nothing else.

They can also bond over, "Yeah, we're being "rewarded" with each other" which can mean a gradual alliance and affection or the opposite.

Also, isn't Kathy's older sister Elizabeth married to the Duke of Norfolk in this tl in 1513 and would in otl be a bit of a pain or a wronged woman depending on your interpretation of events.
 
They can also bond over, "Yeah, we're being "rewarded" with each other" which can mean a gradual alliance and affection or the opposite.

Also, isn't Kathy's older sister Elizabeth married to the Duke of Norfolk in this tl in 1513 and would in otl be a bit of a pain or a wronged woman depending on your interpretation of events.

Good point. Maybe I should do something with her. Though God only knows what...

Well, any match has got to be better for George than Jane Parker, personality wise, so I wouldn't give up on these two just yet.
 
Anne is so sweet and adorable...
George is very smart (and really that was Marie’s idea so is right who the unpleasant job go to her)
Elizabeth Howard Boleyn is clearly doing her job very well.
I wonder what will be her reaction in having the sister of her sister-in-law as daughter-in-law (specially because Thomas Howard and Elizabeth Stafford Howard do not have a very good relationship)
 
Anne is so sweet and adorable...
George is very smart (and really that was Marie’s idea so is right who the unpleasant job go to her)
Elizabeth Howard Boleyn is clearly doing her job very well.
I wonder what will be her reaction in having the sister of her sister-in-law as daughter-in-law (specially because Thomas Howard and Elizabeth Stafford Howard do not have a very good relationship)

I haven't thought as far as Elizabeth's reaction, but (unlike her husband) she knows better than to protest the match, even slightly. She knows only too well how ruthless angry Kings can be. As for Marie having the unpleasant job of telling Thomas, see below!
 
Thomas Boleyn was having a hard time keeping his anger in check. Even though he knew Elizabeth had told him not to, he was itching to reach out and shake some sense back into Marie. She couldn’t seriously be asking him to accept Buckingham’s daughter as George’s wife. Could she?

“Let me get this straight,” he said tightly, “You’ve refused to let George marry Lady Margaret Courtenay, a girl who is first cousin to the King, yet now you’re telling me I have to accept a traitor’s daughter as his bride instead? That I don’t even have a choice in the matter?”

Marie nodded, “We need to keep Kathy and her family under supervision. With her as George’s wife, she and her brother will be tied to us too tightly to ever move against us.”

“Fine words, my daughter! Fine words! But what you really mean is that Lady Katherine will be raised to a station far too high for her traitorous blood, just because you haven’t got the nerve to do what’s really necessary!”

“The King doesn’t think we’ll be raising Kathy too high,” Marie retorted softly. As she spoke, Thomas felt ire surging up inside of him and not even the door creaking slightly as it swung open behind him could stop him from spitting out, “Oh indeed? And I suppose that, just because you have the royal ring on your finger and a pretty crown upon your head, you feel you ought to stand at His Grace’s side and support him rather than fighting for your brother’s rights to a decent match?”

He got no further. A furious roar of, “Lord Ormonde!” cut him off.

Alarmed, he swung round, heart sinking as he realised the King was standing behind him.

“Majesty!” He began to bow, but the King seized him by the chin and dealt him a ringing backhanded blow, the rings on his fingers drawing blood as they bit into Thomas’s skin.

“What is this?! How dare you speak to your Queen in such an insolent manner? And to slander one of the most loyal subjects in the realm into the bargain! No, Lord Ormonde, I won’t stand for it! George will marry Lady Katherine at Easter and there’s an end to it! What’s more, I’ll make him Earl of Pembroke into the bargain. Now get out of my sight and thank your lucky stars you’re my father-in-law or else you’d be looking at worse punishment than this!”

Furious though he was, Thomas's sense of self-preservation held. Facing down his daughter was one thing, facing down an irate King Henry was quite another. He bowed and retreated hastily, his cheek already purpling where Henry had struck him.

Henry and Marie stared at one another for several long moments.

“Is he always like this?” Henry whispered at last.

“He used to be worse,” she answered, “At least now he dare not leave visible marks. He dare not risk anyone finding out he hurts his Queen.”

“But now I have found out.”

Marie nodded, not saying a word.

Instinctively, Henry stepped forward and wrapped his arms around her protectively.

“He’ll never hurt you again, sweetheart. I promise.”

Marie exhaled, and leaned her golden head on his chest, her shoulders slumping in relief. Her thanks was no less fervent for being unspoken.

“I’ve been speaking to Dr Linacre, love," Henry murmured into her hair, "He thinks it might be a good idea if you were to retreat into confinement a little early, now that Lady Anne’s woken up. Watching her so ill will not have been good for you. I need you in confinement, where you’ll be safe and nothing can harm you.”

Marie hesitated. She’d been old enough when her mother had been pregnant with Anne and the youngest of their short-lived siblings to remember visiting her mother in confinement. Not to mention that she’d attended Queen Claude in a number of hers as well. The idea of spending even a moment longer than she had to in that hot, airless little room was anathema to her.

“Henry…” she began, but Henry cupped her chin in his hand and tipped her head up to his.

“Please, love. I can order you, but I’d rather not. I don’t want to distress you, but please. I need you safe.”

“Then I come out for Easter and George’s wedding.”

“Come out of confinement? For Easter? No, Marie, you know that can’t happen! You’re the Queen, you can’t flout convention like that!”

“Henry. I don’t ask for myself, but for you and for my brother. You know the questions that will be asked, if I miss the great Easter festivities. You know what whispers will run through Court, if I don’t attend my own brother’s wedding. It’ll be said that I don’t approve of his having married a traitor’s daughter, when nothing could be further from the truth. Or else that I ran into confinement because I don’t trust the loyalty of our own household guards. Do you really want that? Now, of all times, do you really want that?”

“I’m not sure we can trust our household,” Henry muttered snappishly, but he could see the sense in Marie’s words even as he rebutted them.

“That’s as may be, but you win more hearts with love than with fear. Don’t be Richard the Usurper. Don’t be your father. Let me process at your side for Easter. Please. Even if you send me into confinement tomorrow, let me out for long enough to process at your side for Easter and my brother’s wedding.”

“My grandmother would be turning in her grave if she even knew we were having this discussion,” Henry blew out his cheeks in suppressed merriment.

“Lady Margaret is no longer the most powerful woman in England, Henry. You are the King. You can rule your Queen as you will.”

Greatly daring, Marie leaned up and pulled Henry into a kiss. It was the first time she had instigated a sign of their affection outside the darkness of their bedchamber.

He stiffened slightly in shock, but soon melted into her kiss.

“You are a vixen, My Lady Queen,” he chuckled a few moments later, as he pulled back for air, “Very well. You may stay out of confinement until Easter, but not a moment longer, do you understand? The moment the sun sets on Easter Monday, I am sending you into seclusion and I don’t want to hear another word about it. Is that clear?”

Marie knew enough not to push her husband any further. She nodded.

“Your wish is my command, Sire. Sunset on Easter Monday it is. You have my word.”
 
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