The Queen is Dead!: Katherine of Aragon dies in 1518

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by FalconHonour, Nov 28, 2018.

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  1. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    And thus the wheel of fortune keeps turning...
     
  2. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    x'D x'D x'D
     
  3. Tyg Corporate Inquisitor

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    I realize its not the main focus of the TL, but I am curious if the Habsburgs will be taking advantage of France's humiliation and weakness to demand their own pound of flesh. Ending French ambitions in Italy, perhaps?
     
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  4. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Well, er... Probably? As you say, I don't tend to write Hapsburg. But if anyone would like to, I am happy to post it here and declare it canon.
     
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  5. Shiva Dreaming... always dreaming...

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    I have some thoughts on the politics.

    In this era England, while a strong nation isn't' on part with France or the HRE/Spain of Charles V/I, what England does is play off France and the Habsburgs against one another, occasionally joining in to cause mayhem on the continent. The whole 'Henry going Protestant' made those games more complex since theoretically the Habsburgs and the French could unite and invade England to overthrow the Tudors and say it's God's will. What kept that from happening was France having it's own problems with the Protestants and the Habsburgs dealing with rebellious German nobles, the Ottomans, the Protestants in both the HRE AND 'Burgundy' (what we call the Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg).

    A Catholic England that just took back a big chunk of Normandy however has thrown off the balance a bit, now England will start to look like a possible threat to Habsburg ambitions, but due to the problems in the HRE... I could see the Emperor deciding to play his own games, playing England and France off against one another instead of being the one being played.

    As for Protestantism in England, like in other countries at the time I could see it becoming very popular with the merchant classes, but Henry VIII has no reason to embrace it, so in his reign there will be persecutions of English Protestants, his descendants could either be intolerant of Protestants, or more flexible, or maybe even convert.
     
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  6. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    On the religious aspect, I know Henry and Mary won't go Reformist, but at least one of the next generation will. I actually see Normandy becoming something of a haven for European Reformers ITTL.

    Speaking of Normandy, I am trying to decide whether it would be more humiliating for France to have to accept a partial return of the area as Princess Mary's dowry, if her French marriage goes ahead, or for Henry to force them to accept her with lots of money and free trade as her dowry, but no actual land. Thoughts?
     
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  7. Shiva Dreaming... always dreaming...

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    It would be worse if Francis screws up the deal somehow and Henry uses it as an excuse to invade again and takes more land, like for example a chunk of Aquitaine.
     
  8. vandevere vonhooligan

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    Seriously. That would be hysterical...
     
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  9. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Well. I'll see what I can come up with then.
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Section LIV - February 1521

    FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Inside the Palace, Edward Stafford, Duke of Buckingham, was watching the scene through a high upper window. A sneer curled his lips. His fists were clenched at his sides and, when the crowd hailed Marie in a joyful roar, he turned on his heel away from the window, growling under his breath.

    “God, it makes me sick!”

    “My Lord?”

    “To see the King fawning over that upstart as though she deserves to be his wife! She spent six years in France; she probably thinks of herself as more French than English, for God’s sake. Who knows how loyal she really is? And who is she anyway? Some obscure Earl’s daughter, whose father didn’t even deserve his title!”

    “She is the Duke of Norfolk’s niece,” Ralph Ferrers, the Duke’s secretary broke in, daring to remind his master of that unwelcome fact because, and only because, it was the truth. The Duke of Buckingham spat contemptuously into the fire.

    “Pah! Howards! Traitorous bastards, the lot of them! No, I tell you, Ralph, my daughter would be a far better match for the King than ‘Mademoiselle Boleyn’ – Mary Bullen – will ever be!”

    “Maybe, Your Grace. But it’s Lady Marie the King chose to marry.”

    “Aye. But that’s not to say he’ll stay married to her, is it?”

    Ralph gulped. If he wasn’t wrong – and he sincerely hoped he was – the Duke’s words had a decidedly treasonous smack about them.

    “What do you mean, Sir?”

    “Never mind what I mean. You just write to my Katherine and tell her to get herself back to Court as soon as she possibly can. Leave the rest to me, you understand?”

    “Yes, My Lord,” Ralph bowed his head and left the room, hoping against hope that his master wouldn’t do anything foolish.
     
  11. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Before anyone says it. Yes, I know Katherine Stafford was already married to Ralph Neville Earl of Westmorland by this point OTL. I'm putting her sister Mary in her place in that marriage and ignoring Mary's Bergavenny match, so Kathy Stafford is unmarried here. I have my reasons...
     
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  12. Ogrebear Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear....

    Why can I see a Duke's head on a pike outside the Tower soon...
     
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  13. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Because you're not dim... ;) This is one of my favourite arcs of this story. It's a short one, in the scheme of things, but it has such lasting consequences... ;)
     
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  14. vandevere vonhooligan

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    If Stafford causes a miscarriage...

    His rank may not protect him from a hanging, drawing, and quartering...
     
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  15. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I have plans for Stafford, you may be sure of that! ;)
     
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  16. Tyler96 Well-Known Member

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    Hoping a Buckingham won't do anything foolish is something of a doomed endeavour.
     
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  17. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they never did learn, did they?
     
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  18. RyuDrago Italian? Yes, but also Roman

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    The Tudors look to stand united, and the Valois shattered. Francois has dreams of revenge, but France will forgive him the current defeat?

    And from the English nobilty is starting to stirring trouble, Henry and Mary can't have a moment of peace...
     
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  19. Droman الفينيقي

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    Next Time On Tudor Ball Z!
     
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  20. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can't make it too easy for them, can I now? ;)
     
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