The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

what the hell happened with the free France leak, its got deleted before i could look at it.
the leak made it seem the devs were comiting apologia for colonialism.
I don't know when it started, but it is still like that.

About a year ago I saw a comment with about 300 upvotes IIRC saying that long is as bad as Savinkov, and someone got downvoted to hell while asking "Why?" And the answer was "He allies with Pelley".

I once spent an entire afternoon (had nothing to do too) fighting a swarm on a thread about the empire of Brazil. After that I decided to keep out since the place is toxic.
Yes someone who allies with fascist is bad, news at 11. also do you realize too that the Empire of Brazil literally can only come when Integralist, literal fascist, come to power, of course people are gonna be against it. Also I've been to the kaiserreich reddit and guess what, not only isnt the far left an almost non existant problem, but most users them seem to be monarchists I even found upvoted posts defending pinochet there.
 
someone who allies with fascist is bad, news at 11. also do you realize too that the Empire of Brazil literally can only come when Integralist, literal fascist, come to power, of course people are gonna be against it. Also I've been to the kaiserreich reddit and guess what, not only isnt the far left an almost non existant problem, but most users them seem to be monarchists I even found upvoted posts defending pinochet there.
It is optional and he is not as bad as the fascist, as he purged it after coming to power.

And on that discussion I was not even talking about the KR empire of Brazil, but the OTL one. One of the guys I disarmed there claimed it was an absolute monarchy and that we lost the Uruguayan war. The Reddit works on a mod mentality and thankfully the TNO Reddit didn't fell in the same way.
 
It is optional and he is not as bad as the fascist, as he purged it after coming to power.
Giviing support to fascist paramilitaries and parties is still bad not matter what, specially when the guy in lore isnt that relevant in the grand scheme of things, it would be like giving guns to the klan and then saying that it was okay because a few years later, after they already killed people, you took them away, seriously it just sounds like you wanna support fascist but without saying it out loud
 
Giviing support to fascist paramilitaries and parties is still bad not matter what, specially when the guy in lore isnt that relevant in the grand scheme of things, it would be like giving guns to the klan and then saying that it was okay because a few years later, after they already killed people, you took them away, seriously it just sounds like you wanna support fascist but without saying it out loud
It is bad no matter what, so just don't do it. You even have an event designed for when you don't get far right support.

And my point with that comment was the level of toxicity in the Kaiserreich Reddit, I stand by that point. It is THE most toxic community I know from hearts of Iron reddits, as it managed to be a mod with monarchies and Huey Long where you cannot talk about the two without swarmed.
 
Yeah, the Far Left gutter-trash of TNO are out in full force over this controversy on reddit. It's really unfortunate how the fandom has come to gather such an unsavoury following. Others would say likewise for Kaiseereich and how that submod has become a popular niche for internet monarchists but I generally find them to be immeasurably less insufferable than those who bitch like banshees about how Gus Hall should totes not be a bad path and is the bestest thing since sliced Marx. I hope it wouldn't come to impede the devs in holding up Socialist ideologies to true scrutiny, as they really should.

Whatever the devs take from this occasion, I hope they don't budge on their intended portrayal for Cameroon except for perhaps replacing Felix Moumie as the leader with someone that was more actually morally dubious. Though it's funny when these critics now want to talk of blackwashing when they of course would be in full agreement on TNOTL Thatcher turning Britain into a police state.
Oh dear... The comments section over on Reddit. 🤮

I am calling it right now: After the attempts by members of the far-right in leaking information and trying to ruin the mod by harassing the developers, it will now be the turn for the far-left 'How dare they portray Paul Robeson, a literal tankie Stalinist, negatively?! This is racist!' crowd's turn to start targeting and denouncing TNO.
fucking hell not this shit again
i'd prefer that one dev's rabid "nuke burgundy from the mod" speeches over DSRtards seething that their "wholesome 100 chungus" socialist isn't going to be "wholesome 100 chungus"
 
And my point with that comment was the level of toxicity in the Kaiserreich Reddit, I stand by that point. It is THE most toxic community I know from hearts of Iron reddits, as it managed to be a mod with monarchies and Huey Long where you cannot talk about the two without swarmed.
Seriously saying "you get swarmed if you say that a guy who allies with nazis is bad" isnt as much of a proof of toxicity as you think it is, and I've been in the kaiserreich community for a long time, pro Huey Long and pro monarchies thing are still constantly made and still recieve constantly hundreds, sometimes thousands of upvotes.
 
Seriously saying "you get swarmed if you say that a guy who allies with nazis is bad" isnt as much of a proof of toxicity as you think it is, and I've been in the kaiserreich community for a long time, pro Huey Long and pro monarchies thing are still constantly made and still recieve constantly hundreds, sometimes thousands of upvotes.
Guaire, it was pretty bad, the kind of conversation we are having here is not something that would happen there, the communist acted extremely toxic. These were just the cases I intervened since I tough I could have a normal conversation, then I gave up. Every day I still see people repeating myths like Long trying to keep Louisiana State University white, something that Sherman Von BIsmarck posted data rebuting this in the KR thread in ah dot com and I simple don't act, it is not worthy it, it is not like the TNO community

And I do not want the TNO community to turn into something like that, we have people who want that, but I don't

On the upvote issue, there is the factor that the KR community is pretty left wing, so people praising these are more noticed than toxic behaviour to them
 
the TNO community isnt going anywhere, you all who are worriying about the "alt left" are literally just fighting wind mills, the devs made a mistake leaking something without context that made it seems they were commiting apologia for a colonialist apertheid state, and understandable everyone lost their shit over such stupidity.
 
the TNO community isnt going anywhere, you all who are worriying about the "alt left" are literally just fighting wind mills, the devs made a mistake leaking something without context that made it seems they were commiting apologia for a colonialist apertheid state, and understandable everyone lost their shit over such stupidity.
I only saw that since I was not tagged on the answer

TNO is not in that state yet, and it won't get on it, I'm sure of that
 

brooklyn99

Banned
the TNO community isnt going anywhere, you all who are worriying about the "alt left" are literally just fighting wind mills, the devs made a mistake leaking something without context that made it seems they were commiting apologia for a colonialist apertheid state, and understandable everyone lost their shit over such stupidity.
The reaction to the dev's statements is more just the straw that broke the camel's back for me in expressing my ire about that segment of the community. There is more where that came from. For example, see this Reddit post that was made the other day. If you wish to read through the threads, you will eventually come across one gross cretin bitching about how the L-NPP is presented as a bad path in-game by the devs (as it very much should) and more disgustingly, also a deranged essay made by the same redditor shitting out bootlicking nonsense about how the the Evil Empire (the USSR) was "pretty fucking heroic" and pathetically trying to draw moral equivalency between the Liberal Democracies and the authoritarian Socialist states of the Cold War (Yet they bitch about "both sideism" because blatantly distorting history and portraying Marxist states as anything less than Utopia is "both sideism" to these people). Yet said user hasn't been banned for extremism as per Rule 3 of the subreddit's sidebar.
 
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The reaction to the dev's statements is more just the straw that broke the camel's back for me in expressing my ire about that segment of the community. There is more where that came from. For example, see this Reddit post that was made the other day. If you wish to read through the threads, you will eventually come across one gross cretin bitching about how the L-NPP is presented as a bad path in-game by the devs (as it very much should) and more disgustingly, also a deranged essay made by the same redditor shitting out bootlicking nonsense about how the the Evil Empire (the USSR) was "pretty fucking heroic" and pathetically trying to draw moral equivalency between the Liberal Democracies and the authoritarian Socialist states of the Cold War (Yet they bitch about "both sideism" because blatantly distorting history and portraying Marxist states as anything less than Utopia is "both sideism" to these people). Yet said user hasn't been banned for extremism as per Rule 3 of the subreddit's sidebar.
This is veering into current politics a little bit so perhaps we should steer the topic towards safer waters.

Namely, who else is excited for subideologies?
 

brooklyn99

Banned
I don't think the soviet union is current politics.
Though the memory of the USSR in relation to modern discourse can maybe be counted as such. I just had to let off some steam here.

As for subideologies. They are one of the little things I am fascinated for in the coming update. Specifically the unique labels that I want to discover, like Velimir, Giani and reworked Kishi's. Which is all I can think to say on the matter.
 
In other news, I'm starting to agree with the naysayers regarding how Russia's industrial capabilities should not be close to that of matching America or Germany and that she should be in no shape to successfully prosecute a "Second" West Russian War in the timeframe of TNO2. It feels more and more strange that Russia is littered with abstracted resources representing mining operations even when the majority of the landscape there is being bombed to near ruin constantly by the Luftwaffe. I get that Siberia is more or less untouched but I think that a lot of these siberian warlords should be really struggling with high risks of famine. What's going in Tyumen should be going on everywhere given the fragmented state of Siberia as well as Siberia being poorly suited to large scale agriculture. This isn't to say that agriculturally Siberia was *totally* dependent on European Russia but with all Refugee crisis's going on in Russia along with the large scale instability I think at minimum food security should be a more ever-present issue.
 
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In other news, I'm starting to agree with the naysayers regarding how Russia's industrial capabilities should not be close to that of matching America or Germany and that she should be in no shape to successfully prosecute a "Second" West Russian War in the timeframe of TNO2. It feels more and more strange that Russia is littered with abstracted resources representing mining operations even when the majority of the landscape there is being bombed to near ruin constantly by the Luftwaffe. I get that Siberia is more or less untouched but I think that a lot of these siberian warlords should be really struggling with high risks of famine. What's going in Tyumen should be going on everywhere given the fragmented state of Siberia as well as Siberia being poorly suited to large scale agriculture. This isn't to say that agriculturally Siberia was *totally* dependent on European Russia but with all Refugee crisis's going on in Russia along with the large scale instability I think at minimum food security should be a more ever-present issue.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me hate the nazis even more, to think that they - among other stuff - brought Russia this close to a failed state
 
Namely, who else is excited for subideologies?
Very excited!

Subideologies allow for an unprecedented degree of granularity in representing the diversity of political theory (and applications) that existed, or could have existed, within the confines of the overarching alternate history scenario presented. As a corollary, this facilitates both more nuance than Paradox-style 3 very generalized ideologies and deeper representation than some mods' 20+ ideology pie charts :neutral: where ideologies are named but under-described and play too similarly. As such, I expect (and have high hopes) for such a mechanic to proliferate into other mods, so that other scenarios may benefit from a similar degree of comprehensiveness.

Anyone excited for specific announced subideologies? Also, any preferences for yet-unannounced subideologies you hope could make an appearance (and why)?
 
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The reaction to the dev's statements is more just the straw that broke the camel's back for me in expressing my ire about that segment of the community. There is more where that came from. For example, see this Reddit post that was made the other day. If you wish to read through the threads, you will eventually come across one gross cretin bitching about how the L-NPP is presented as a bad path in-game by the devs (as it very much should) and more disgustingly, also a deranged essay made by the same redditor shitting out bootlicking nonsense about how the the Evil Empire (the USSR) was "pretty fucking heroic" and pathetically trying to draw moral equivalency between the Liberal Democracies and the authoritarian Socialist states of the Cold War (Yet they bitch about "both sideism" because blatantly distorting history and portraying Marxist states as anything less than Utopia is "both sideism" to these people). Yet said user hasn't been banned for extremism as per Rule 3 of the subreddit's sidebar.
people angry about the only socialist US path being shown as bad as literal nazis is not "being angry that communist arent a Utopia", in fact there are already tons of bad in game communist paths and no one gives a shit, your comment is just another example that most people who complain about the alt left are just desilusional morons.
 
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