I think the main difference would be that Germany could project power in Eastern Europe far more easily than France, or even the USA, could project power into Southeast Asia. Ho Chi Minh was right about China being able to push out western influence in the long run, but that's absolutely not a sure thing about Russia and German influence in the world of TNO- especially in the early game, before the Russians have moved on from the warlord era.
The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II
- Thread starter SirHalifax
- Start date
AeroTheZealousOne
Monthly Donor
Reminds me of how Gao's Republic of China uses almost exclusively Japanese equipment as of 1962, then transitions over to researching and producing native Chinese designs in the 1970s and 1980s. For whatever reason I didn't notice this in Britain but it's been almost a year since my last playthrough of them. Makes sense though, even in a world where "Operation Unspeakable Water Creature That Caused Flamewars On ThIs Site" was successful.
I've been waiting for either Toolbox Theory or another update to satisfy my desire for a long campaign, so I haven't focused much on TNO as of late. Is the community mellowing out or it is still whack as ever?
It's weird and memey sometimes, but (at least in the few months that I've been playing and paying attention) it doesn't seem like there's too much implicit or explicit apologia for the various awful regimes or ideologies present, as opposed to the impression I've gotten from communities around comparable mods like Kaiserreich or Red Flood. There haven't been any new Speer hoodies since I started playing, at least.
I saw this and tough "Wait, the Argentinian economy is bigger than the brazilian one? But Argentina was burning at this time" so I went into google and turns out that the brazilian GDP was almost 10 billion behind argentina heuaheuaheuaheuaheuaheua *cries in brazilian*
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brooklyn99
Banned
Some interesting South America leaks:
The main highlight for me is that Argentina will apparently have an Esonaz path under one, Lopez Rega.
The main highlight for me is that Argentina will apparently have an Esonaz path under one, Lopez Rega.
I'm hoping there's a Socialist path, given that the OTL leader of the Communist Party of Argentina is Fanny Edelman. She's best known in the HOI4 community as the leader of a communist Argentina in vanilla (and one of the few female leaders in the game), but what interests me is that she's not only a woman, but Jewish.
chankljp
Donor
Hot take: Despite the reputation of the TNO setting being cruel, unforgiving. and GRIMDARK, with references (Most notably with Tabby) and comparisons with Warhammer 40K being frequent, I would say that in reality, TNO is the anti-40K in terms of its themes.
Why? If there is one thing that keeps coming up over and over again in 40K, it will be the idea that the setting is so fundamentally hostile and broken that when it comes to the more 'order' aligned factions (The Imperium, Craftworld Eldar, Tau), their regimes, as genocidal, xenophobic, oppressive, and outright brutal as they might be, they are honestly the best that can be done given the realities of their situation. That all the endless meat grinder wars, pogroms, and atrocities being committed is what keeps the enemies out. And if it wasn't for said oppression, things that are much worst will find their way in, and destroy what little that you have left. In other worlds, it is a setting about the 'necessity of tyranny'.
In TNO, however, no matter how badly messed up the world might be, even after a global thermonuclear war, there is ALWAY hope, and things CAN always get better as long as you put in the effort. TNO also categorically reject the idea of the 'necessity of tyranny', even when said tyrants are well-meaning.
Over in England, with the exception of Chesterton, all the other members of the collab government view themselves as the only sane people around, and that if HMMLR wins, Germany will raze England to the ground, hence all of their oppression against their own people... Yet as we can see, a Free England under neither Jellicoe nor Wilson will result in a German invasion. In fact, an victorious collab government might even make things worst, since OFN will be much less willing to send over aid in the even of Operation Sealion II.
For Russia, one of my criticisms have always been that the good factions were just... Well, TOO wholesome. In the sense that everyone of them from centrist Komi to Sablin's USSR, from the idealistic intellectual of Tomsk to Tsar Vladimir's enlighten LibDem monarchy in Vyatka, from the Black Army's vision of uncompromising freedom under anarchy to Father Man's Christian communes... They all greatly undermine the experience when playing as the 'pragmatic, yet relatively benevolent' factions such as Stalina or Pokryshkin's Novosibirsk, since their argument of 'We are only doing what is necessary, for the alternatives are worst' is in fact not true... But maybe that was the entire point? That regardless of your ideology and political leanings, there is ALWAYS a possibility for you to do better instead of settling for 'what is necessary'?
Why? If there is one thing that keeps coming up over and over again in 40K, it will be the idea that the setting is so fundamentally hostile and broken that when it comes to the more 'order' aligned factions (The Imperium, Craftworld Eldar, Tau), their regimes, as genocidal, xenophobic, oppressive, and outright brutal as they might be, they are honestly the best that can be done given the realities of their situation. That all the endless meat grinder wars, pogroms, and atrocities being committed is what keeps the enemies out. And if it wasn't for said oppression, things that are much worst will find their way in, and destroy what little that you have left. In other worlds, it is a setting about the 'necessity of tyranny'.
In TNO, however, no matter how badly messed up the world might be, even after a global thermonuclear war, there is ALWAY hope, and things CAN always get better as long as you put in the effort. TNO also categorically reject the idea of the 'necessity of tyranny', even when said tyrants are well-meaning.
Over in England, with the exception of Chesterton, all the other members of the collab government view themselves as the only sane people around, and that if HMMLR wins, Germany will raze England to the ground, hence all of their oppression against their own people... Yet as we can see, a Free England under neither Jellicoe nor Wilson will result in a German invasion. In fact, an victorious collab government might even make things worst, since OFN will be much less willing to send over aid in the even of Operation Sealion II.
For Russia, one of my criticisms have always been that the good factions were just... Well, TOO wholesome. In the sense that everyone of them from centrist Komi to Sablin's USSR, from the idealistic intellectual of Tomsk to Tsar Vladimir's enlighten LibDem monarchy in Vyatka, from the Black Army's vision of uncompromising freedom under anarchy to Father Man's Christian communes... They all greatly undermine the experience when playing as the 'pragmatic, yet relatively benevolent' factions such as Stalina or Pokryshkin's Novosibirsk, since their argument of 'We are only doing what is necessary, for the alternatives are worst' is in fact not true... But maybe that was the entire point? That regardless of your ideology and political leanings, there is ALWAYS a possibility for you to do better instead of settling for 'what is necessary'?
Hell, even in Nazi Germany, the heart of the dark empire itself, it’s possible for the Gan of Four to outmaneuver Speer and establish a genuinely democratic, remorseful society that can live in peace with the world. Even in Post-Taboritsky Russia, there is still hope that, with time, the damage done by the ceaseless chemical warfare to the land and people will fade and a newer, better Russia will emerge from the ashes. It won’t be easy, it won’t be painless, but in the end hope springs eternal, and so long asnpeople strive to make that hope real evil will never win.
chankljp
Donor
Which is why I really look forward to the ways in which the US will be able to bounce back from its fail states in the form of either the Hall or Yockey presidencies. Perhaps the idea is that the American system's checks and balances will kick-in, resulting in the extremist president's either not being able to do most of the things that they want to enact, or when they try to remove said checks and balances, they will get removed from office?
We need the 2 WRW to see the entire narrative.
Quite a few of your examples could be unmade by that crucial war,not losing it mind you just its inevitability.
Also Sablin isn't wholesome and i can't wait for his rework to show that he is at best equal to the princess of Komi.
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I hope that, in case of a NPA victory, the Far East unifier (provided they're not Amur) can be returned Primorye.
China has claims over that territory why would they return them?
To avoid war with the Russian unifier and get a willing ally against Japan ever getting ideas of coming back ?
In this situation they wouldn't need that.
And if post anarchy Russia wants to test this new China they are free to try it.
Yeah judging by the previous preview of the Western Insurrection, this new preview proves that Long Yun and the NPA are no longer a Bloodthirsty War Band, and instead a moderate Guerilla Army.