Man people really latched on to this Ordosocialism thing. I don't quite get it myself.
The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II
- Thread starter SirHalifax
- Start date
I personally find the promise of Serov as the new Marx far more frightening and interesting than the Natbol/ Juche part.
brooklyn99
Banned
Yeah. Like, even before he unifies Russia Serov is already fanning the flames of revolution in post-huttig Africa and in the Middle east during the oil crisis.
No, I don't think he does. Probably because he's such a big part of Kaiserreich.
chankljp
Donor
I have just been doing some thinking, and as it now stands, I realized something about the upcoming Great Asian War between China and Japan:
It is a simple fact that even in the most optimistic total Chinese victory scenario, China will NOT be able to challenge the IJN at all, period. At most, they will be able to follow the OTL Soviet naval doctrine of having their ships be 'glass canons', doing as much damage on the enemy as possible before ineviable getting sink, or bypass the navy all together and simply spam out costal anti-ship SSM to keep the IJN away from the Chinese coastlines.
A total or even major Chinese victory scenario in the GAW, however, WILL by necessity entail either the utter defeat of or at least a greatly diminished IJA, as they get pushed all the way back into Korea. Meaning we will have a situation of the IJA ceasing to be a political force in Japanese politics, while the IJN stays more or less intact. Given the infamous IJA vs IJN rivalry, it is all but certain that the IJN will use this opportunity to further themselves and their own goals. On the other hand, by having the IJN not being able to actually contribute much in the land war in the Asian Mainland might result in the navy getting blamed for being 'useless', or their battleships and aircraft carriers getting disparaged as 'Hotel Yamato' just like in OTL WW2 after Midway. If Takagi is serving as the Prime Minister at the time, you might even get some conspiracy theory about how him as a former IJN admiral sabotaged the IJA.
Furthermore, unlike the OTL surrender of Japan at the end of WW2, there will be NO occupation of Japan, period. Meaning that even after a total Chinese GAW victory, Japan's kokutai and system of State Shintoism will remain in place. With Japan more or less getting reverted back to the 1905 as they still get to keep Korea and Taiwan, but losing the Co-Prosperity Sphere.
So, my prediction is that we might end up seeing the IJN post GAW attempting to seize control of the government in the name to stabilizing the country, and knowing that otherwise they might soon be on the chopping block (No point having, not to mention not being able to afford to support such a massive navy with a Japan that is no longer a superpower).... Which could result in a Japan that retreats into full isolationism, with the IJN protected their nation from whatever comes beyond the seas, or if the domestic situation gets bad enough, suddenly opening up all sort of previously unthinkable options...
After all, I think it was mentioned once by the devs that with the exception of Kishi, Japan doesn't really have a Heydrich style crazy path due to most of Japan's OTL crazy politics, from the Japanese Red Army, to the Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult, came as a direct result of the people reacting to their nation's defeat in WW2. Hence, without the shock of getting firebombed and two nukes dropped on them, Japanese politics in TNO remained relatively 'stable'... A status quo that a defeat in the GAW will certainly shatter.
It is a simple fact that even in the most optimistic total Chinese victory scenario, China will NOT be able to challenge the IJN at all, period. At most, they will be able to follow the OTL Soviet naval doctrine of having their ships be 'glass canons', doing as much damage on the enemy as possible before ineviable getting sink, or bypass the navy all together and simply spam out costal anti-ship SSM to keep the IJN away from the Chinese coastlines.
A total or even major Chinese victory scenario in the GAW, however, WILL by necessity entail either the utter defeat of or at least a greatly diminished IJA, as they get pushed all the way back into Korea. Meaning we will have a situation of the IJA ceasing to be a political force in Japanese politics, while the IJN stays more or less intact. Given the infamous IJA vs IJN rivalry, it is all but certain that the IJN will use this opportunity to further themselves and their own goals. On the other hand, by having the IJN not being able to actually contribute much in the land war in the Asian Mainland might result in the navy getting blamed for being 'useless', or their battleships and aircraft carriers getting disparaged as 'Hotel Yamato' just like in OTL WW2 after Midway. If Takagi is serving as the Prime Minister at the time, you might even get some conspiracy theory about how him as a former IJN admiral sabotaged the IJA.
Furthermore, unlike the OTL surrender of Japan at the end of WW2, there will be NO occupation of Japan, period. Meaning that even after a total Chinese GAW victory, Japan's kokutai and system of State Shintoism will remain in place. With Japan more or less getting reverted back to the 1905 as they still get to keep Korea and Taiwan, but losing the Co-Prosperity Sphere.
So, my prediction is that we might end up seeing the IJN post GAW attempting to seize control of the government in the name to stabilizing the country, and knowing that otherwise they might soon be on the chopping block (No point having, not to mention not being able to afford to support such a massive navy with a Japan that is no longer a superpower).... Which could result in a Japan that retreats into full isolationism, with the IJN protected their nation from whatever comes beyond the seas, or if the domestic situation gets bad enough, suddenly opening up all sort of previously unthinkable options...
After all, I think it was mentioned once by the devs that with the exception of Kishi, Japan doesn't really have a Heydrich style crazy path due to most of Japan's OTL crazy politics, from the Japanese Red Army, to the Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult, came as a direct result of the people reacting to their nation's defeat in WW2. Hence, without the shock of getting firebombed and two nukes dropped on them, Japanese politics in TNO remained relatively 'stable'... A status quo that a defeat in the GAW will certainly shatter.
brooklyn99
Banned
More Ukrainian leaks. One of the things that these have got me pretty excited for is the Libdem party for the Ukrainian republic that is called "United Struggle". In their path, they can apparently make an alliance faction with other resistance movements in Europe to fight back against the Nazis efforts to force them back under the boot.
One thing that has me scratching my head though is another party in the republic called the "Culturalists". They apparently believe that the biggest threat to Ukrainian sovereignty is not Germany but actually...Russia. Which clearly doesn't really make sense considering the circumstances like Russia being shattered as a nation, taking years to reform again and being more an afterthought in terms of being a threat to Ukraine as opposed to the much more immediate and severe menace of Nazi Germany that had just enacted 20 years of brutal colonialism and is looking to reassert their dominance. At least not before the 70s when Russia has reunited and is poised to push westwards.
Speaking of the Culturalists, the devs said there would be a collaborationist party in the Republic of Ukraine. I think the Culturalists are the collab republicans as well, though this is just a guess.
brooklyn99
Banned
It is also said that these collaborationists can get along pretty well with Speer and that Speer would have a much easier time in negotiating with them. Though I'm not sure if this is meant in Speer himself or "Speer" as in his government/state. Since I would imagine these collabs would have more affinity for the GO4 due to more ability through them to exercise self determination and more meaningful sovereignty.
That's extremely odd give in to my knowledge the Holodomor didn't happen in TNO because of Bukharin's different policies.
Fuck even the Stalinist USSR of OTL even with all the nastiness didn't try to straight up kill everyone in Ukraine, unlike the Nazis...
I still wish there is a way to Manchuria to survive as an independent state, maybe something like a Finland between Japan and the revived China.
Something I noticed also is that mengkukuo-Mongolia has the aristocratic conservative ideology according to TV tropes.
chankljp
Donor
Well, we do have something similar in OTL, in the form of Vietnam. Going all the way back to the 1920s when Vietnam was under French colonial rule, and China was a total mess stuck in the warlord era after having been utterly humiliated by every colonial power on Earth, he had already viewed the Chinese, not the French as the bigger threat to Vietnam's independence in the long run. Under the reasoning that the French, and later the Americans, do not belong in Asia, and as such will alway have to leave Vietnam eventually... While for China, the Vietnamese have been fighting against them for literally thousands of years going all the way back to the Han dynasty with the Trung sisters. As such, if China managed to truly conquer Vietnam, the Chinese will never leave, and the Vietnamese people will end up getting assimilated into the Chinese nation for good. Hence the reason why the Vietnamese are so pro-US as a counter to the Chinese, despite the entire... You know, Vietnam War business, with Agent Orange and napalm being dropped all over the country.
In the TNO world, the Ukrainian Culturalists might view Germany and Russia in a similar light. In thinking that Russia shattered nation FOR NOW, and the Germany's under the Nazis might be genociding the Ukrainian people. But the Nazi empire is a house of cards that will fall eventually. Compared to a Russia that managed to reunify under a competent leader, in which case, even a wholesome and benevolent government will inevitably be motivated by irredentism, seeking to make Ukraine part of 'Greater Russia', in which case they will be reduced to just another minority instead of having their own nation.
Granted, considering that Stalin's Holodomor never took place in the TNO world, the logic behind this kind of 'I prefer to get raped and abused by the Germans for a few years than live under Russian rule for the rest of my life' (A Ho Chi Mihn reference) to be a serious case of having messed up priorities. Plus, after living under Nazi rule for decades, I am sure that a big part of their anti-Russian views will be motivated by racism, with stupid ideas like 'Unlike Ukrainians, Czechs, Poles, and Belarusians, Russians are not real Slavs, but were instead Asiatic Mongols'.
Something I noticed is that England starts with German equipment and midway into the tech tree it changes to British equipment. This means that for a while they would be using British made ME-262, something epic I must say.
It would be cool if far east unifiers like Chita, Amur and Magadan started with the Japanese tech tree and midway into it they adopted Russian ones, while vyatka and Samara started with the German one and then changed to Russian ones.
The Brazilian one is the truly woke tree, mixing American and Brazilian stuff.
It would be cool if far east unifiers like Chita, Amur and Magadan started with the Japanese tech tree and midway into it they adopted Russian ones, while vyatka and Samara started with the German one and then changed to Russian ones.
The Brazilian one is the truly woke tree, mixing American and Brazilian stuff.
For Magadan, I would imagine a mix of Russian and American Gear, given how Matkovsky, Petlin and WerBell are close with the United States for Assistance. Whereas Chita would transition into use solely Russian gear. Although Amur can use a mix of Japanese and Russian especially given the RFP's close and cooperative ties to the Japanese.
I would like to see an authentic Brazillian tech tree. With fictional aerial tech or naval probably. The current Brazillian tree makes me think it will work under Lacerda path.