The New Order: Last Days of Europe - An Axis Victory Cold War Mod for HoIIV

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Panzer once shared a hypothetical ATL in which the WRRF won the WRW... With the stage of the alternate TNO world actually looking even more grim compared to normal TNO, so there is certainly that to consider.
Tbh Panzer had a thing for ‘grimdark’, see the now discarded canon. I wouldn’t use him as a indicator of how a altered timeline would go tbh.
 

chankljp

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Tbh Panzer had a thing for ‘grimdark’, see the now discarded canon. I wouldn’t use him as a indicator of how a altered timeline would go tbh.
Well, I don't consider it to be 'canon' either, not even as an ATL on how things would have gone if the WRRF had been more successful in the WRW, but just something that I thought would be interesting to share with everyone else here on this thread.
 
Something I've recently thought of that I'd like to see regarding Brittany.

First, the black market mechanics need a rework. In particular, the player shouldn't have to pay money (and political power!) to manually steal equipment. It seems that the whole point of setting up smuggling networks is to do that automatically. I would handle it by having networks in different country give Brittany off-map military factories, thus making the Brittany player's job managing production (which is actually smuggling).

Second, I'd like to see Brittany get stuff to do that isn't based around the black market. For example, how is the effort to restore Breton culture and language going? What is happening to the ethnic French minority? And what happens to the parts of France Brittany seizes during the Franco-Burgundian War?
 
Tbh Panzer had a thing for ‘grimdark’, see the now discarded canon. I wouldn’t use him as a indicator of how a altered timeline would go tbh.
This is a fair statement. TBH the events of 1953 going a different way in TNO are an interesting subject (for example if the London Uprising had succeeded you'd have an English Socialist Republic at game start which would be aligned with the OFN and all the strategic implications of that.)
 

chankljp

Donor
Second, I'd like to see Brittany get stuff to do that isn't based around the black market. For example, how is the effort to restore Breton culture and language going? What is happening to the ethnic French minority? And what happens to the parts of France Brittany seizes during the Franco-Burgundian War?
Well, the two sides of Brittany can actually be linked: In that in order to finance the revival of Breton culture and language, not to mention funding things like social welfare, education, and art, you will have to use the money you make via the black market. With the republic becoming this OTL Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew/Rwanda under Paul Kagame style benevolent dictatorship. especially with it sitting right next to an England that will be busy rebuilding itself after the Civil war and the decades of Nazi occupation, not to mention the giant blackhole of human misery that is Burgundy.

This will actually giving Brittany under Mordrel some moral complexity in that he actually does care a lot about the wellbeing of his citizens.... Even if it was all funded via profits from the black market, which plays a role in adding to global instability elsewhere.

In fact, considering that one of the first things that Delaporte does if he comes into power and democratizes the country was to shutdown the black market, as a subversion/discussion on TNO's 'Authoritarianism is bad' message can be that as far as the average citizen of Brittany is concerned, they will have to work harder and have a lower standard of living under Delaporte's AuthDem government compared to Mordrel's fascist regime now that the black market isn't brining in an endless stream of hard currency from overseas anymore. With social programs having to be cut back if not outright canceled, not to mention all the unemployment that will be created when the legitimate service industries in the country no longer have wealthy crime lords and smugglers to cater to anymore. Perhaps maybe have an event with a democracy supporter saying how he is actually feeling nostalgic about the old day, and regretting his support for Delaporte.... Ignoring or just not caring about the fact that Brittany's wealth was built upon the misery of people in the rest of the world.

Just thought that it will be a very interesting narrative to explore, and have lots of storytelling potential.
 
This is a fair statement. TBH the events of 1953 going a different way in TNO are an interesting subject (for example if the London Uprising had succeeded you'd have an English Socialist Republic at game start which would be aligned with the OFN and all the strategic implications of that.)
Could you have the socialist monarchy compromise in 1953?
 
So, basically the London Uprising failing catastrophically allowed more moderate groups to take up the torch of resistance?
Yes and no.
It forced them to moderate and ally with the rest of the resistance movements.
If they won they would have had to purge everyone else and then themselves as is tradition.
 
Yes and no.
It forced them to moderate and ally with the rest of the resistance movements.
If they won they would have had to purge everyone else and then themselves as is tradition.
I suppose that's one reason to be sympathetic for the Collabs then. Crushing that little October uprising before the horrors that would've been entailed were enacted on.
 
Well, the two sides of Brittany can actually be linked: In that in order to finance the revival of Breton culture and language, not to mention funding things like social welfare, education, and art, you will have to use the money you make via the black market. With the republic becoming this OTL Singapore under Lee Kuan Yew/Rwanda under Paul Kagame style benevolent dictatorship. especially with it sitting right next to an England that will be busy rebuilding itself after the Civil war and the decades of Nazi occupation, not to mention the giant blackhole of human misery that is Burgundy.

This will actually giving Brittany under Mordrel some moral complexity in that he actually does care a lot about the wellbeing of his citizens.... Even if it was all funded via profits from the black market, which plays a role in adding to global instability elsewhere.

In fact, considering that one of the first things that Delaporte does if he comes into power and democratizes the country was to shutdown the black market, as a subversion/discussion on TNO's 'Authoritarianism is bad' message can be that as far as the average citizen of Brittany is concerned, they will have to work harder and have a lower standard of living under Delaporte's AuthDem government compared to Mordrel's fascist regime now that the black market isn't brining in an endless stream of hard currency from overseas anymore. With social programs having to be cut back if not outright canceled, not to mention all the unemployment that will be created when the legitimate service industries in the country no longer have wealthy crime lords and smugglers to cater to anymore. Perhaps maybe have an event with a democracy supporter saying how he is actually feeling nostalgic about the old day, and regretting his support for Delaporte.... Ignoring or just not caring about the fact that Brittany's wealth was built upon the misery of people in the rest of the world.

Just thought that it will be a very interesting narrative to explore, and have lots of storytelling potential.
Maybe there could be a few other paths for Brittany. For example, given how much of an open secret the Breton black market is, how hard would it be for them to go legitimate? On the arms industry side of things, they could do what Israel did IOTL: build up a strong native arms industry funded by arms exports. The luxury goods side would basically be a proto-Amazon. There might also be a sense of some shady deals still happening to keep the machinery running. This part might all be specific to Delaporte - if you go with Fouéré, he would completely shut down the black market.
 
Come to think of it I did see some of that with Jacobin's review of Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands, which basically amounted to 'the Soviets did nothing wrong in Poland because of Polish collaboration with the Nazis'.
That's hardly the point the article was making.. like at all... it was discussing Polish collaboration as a counterargument against Snyder's odd historiographical claims (inherited from Nolte in the Historikerstreit) that brutal mass violence was visited upon the Borderlands by external agents and that this type and scale of mass killing was unknown before the ‘innovations’ of Hitlerism-Stalinism and their totalitarian methods. This removes their agency and obfuscates any history of mass violence in the region during the period during and just preceding Snyder's arbitrary date of 1933, including the mass violence endemic to the region during the chaos just after the First World War.

The author brought this up in regards to the argument about Stalinist-Hitlerist mass violence being a unique phenomenon where they learned from each other and built off each others techniques, rather than situating it in the broader context of the post-war years all over Europe. And the author is talking about all of this in order to criticize Snyder's awkward push of his ideology onto history and resurrection of the ghosts of the Historikerstreit. I really don't know where you read Soviet apologia into it..
 
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