Well, Katherine is only 34, that is not too late for a child.
Good luck to her regardless
Good luck to her regardless
The Heirs of Henry VIII and Katherine
- Thread starter desmirelle
- Start date
1519 - June
June 1519
Katherine was depressed; but attempting to hide it from the court (badly). Henry shared her sorrow and the children were at the royal nursery (save for 3 year old Mary, who didn't understand why her mother cried sometimes now and again when with her. Henry was sorrowing less; he knew the children less than she and it had not been his body that had suffered (along with her heart). She feared there would be no more children: she would have a light cycle one month and nothing the next. The time of women was coming, contributing to the darkness within.
Henry's idea to cheer her up was to propose a short progress. Katherine originally declined, then decided that she wished to go somewhere cheerful and face her sorrow: she would "progress" as far the Suffolk's nearby residence in the area and remain until after Mary had delivered her first child. Henry and the boys could go on the progress. Henry was pleased with the proposal and after ten days of preparation, they set off. The King asked Charles to 'come along' - which left Charles torn between his duty and his family, but he was saved by Katherine, who told Henry this might be Charles' first son and he, like Henry, would like to be home for it. Henry chose another companion and left.
The Duchess of Suffolk went into labor late the evening of the 13th; it took some time before the labor settled into a regular pattern and went on until soul's midnight on the 15th, when William Brandon made his appearance, screaming, squirming and apparently upset to be out in the world. Katherine was present and bathed and swaddled him herself before handing him to his exhausted mother. She personally informed the Duke (although others already had) and told him not to bring up "the next babe" to the weary Mary as she brought him to his wife and son. A messenger was sent to the King, Katherine was sure he would want to know.
The christening of Lord William Brandon took place on the 21st, where Henry (who had barely arrived at the first stop, found his host ill and welcomed the reason to leave) and Katherine were godparents. The Brandons had not had to ask - Henry just assumed and no one contradicted him.
On the 27th, Cardinal Wolsey again heard from the father of Elizabeth Blount. She had given birth to a son on the 15th and she named him Henry, after the man she still maintained was the father. She had developed childbed fever and still was not well. There was no mention of a potential husband for her, nor was the matter of her single state referred to. The letter, on the whole, was almost businesslike. Apparently John Blount of Kinlet was resigned to the official line on this matter. But then, it was rumored John Blount had his eye on Parliament. Perhaps he thought might not succeed if he continued the dispute.
Katherine was depressed; but attempting to hide it from the court (badly). Henry shared her sorrow and the children were at the royal nursery (save for 3 year old Mary, who didn't understand why her mother cried sometimes now and again when with her. Henry was sorrowing less; he knew the children less than she and it had not been his body that had suffered (along with her heart). She feared there would be no more children: she would have a light cycle one month and nothing the next. The time of women was coming, contributing to the darkness within.
Henry's idea to cheer her up was to propose a short progress. Katherine originally declined, then decided that she wished to go somewhere cheerful and face her sorrow: she would "progress" as far the Suffolk's nearby residence in the area and remain until after Mary had delivered her first child. Henry and the boys could go on the progress. Henry was pleased with the proposal and after ten days of preparation, they set off. The King asked Charles to 'come along' - which left Charles torn between his duty and his family, but he was saved by Katherine, who told Henry this might be Charles' first son and he, like Henry, would like to be home for it. Henry chose another companion and left.
The Duchess of Suffolk went into labor late the evening of the 13th; it took some time before the labor settled into a regular pattern and went on until soul's midnight on the 15th, when William Brandon made his appearance, screaming, squirming and apparently upset to be out in the world. Katherine was present and bathed and swaddled him herself before handing him to his exhausted mother. She personally informed the Duke (although others already had) and told him not to bring up "the next babe" to the weary Mary as she brought him to his wife and son. A messenger was sent to the King, Katherine was sure he would want to know.
The christening of Lord William Brandon took place on the 21st, where Henry (who had barely arrived at the first stop, found his host ill and welcomed the reason to leave) and Katherine were godparents. The Brandons had not had to ask - Henry just assumed and no one contradicted him.
On the 27th, Cardinal Wolsey again heard from the father of Elizabeth Blount. She had given birth to a son on the 15th and she named him Henry, after the man she still maintained was the father. She had developed childbed fever and still was not well. There was no mention of a potential husband for her, nor was the matter of her single state referred to. The letter, on the whole, was almost businesslike. Apparently John Blount of Kinlet was resigned to the official line on this matter. But then, it was rumored John Blount had his eye on Parliament. Perhaps he thought might not succeed if he continued the dispute.
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@Ogrebear, a woman who has just miscarried is in no condition (mentally or physically) to travel.
And, I don't know that the Blounts want their bastard son/grandson paid any attention. Would you want congratulations for your daughter bringing forth a bastard and not able to get a husband, even though she's a good dowry?
And, I don't know that the Blounts want their bastard son/grandson paid any attention. Would you want congratulations for your daughter bringing forth a bastard and not able to get a husband, even though she's a good dowry?
1519 - the rest of summer
July - August 1519
Although she was mostly recovered from the miscarriage, Katherine was still not completely well. Henry, with his pathological fear of illness, returned to the progress with his sons.
Two mornings after he left, Katherine awoke in surprising good spirits. She told her ladies she'd had a dream in which the Virgin Mary told her that her womb would be fruitful again and no more of her children would die. She was congratulated by everyone, but only Leanor truly believed her. The rest filed it under wishful thinking.
The middle of July brought romance to her ladies. Henry Courtney was wooing both Gertrude Blount and the witty, enigmatic (to him) Anne Boleyn; Henry Percy wooed Anne Boleyn and Gertrude Blount; James Butler was interested only in Anne Boleyn, his erstwhile fiancée. Gertrude was vacillating between the two Henrys while Anne Boleyn was not interested in Henry Courtney (she considered him betrothed to Gertrude), she was interested in Henry Percy (but disliked that he was also courting Gertrude and seemed just as interested in her as in Anne); Anne was surprised to find James Butler a pleasing fellow, who was teaching her Gaelic. She did not, however, consider that they were courting.
August brought the first betrothal: Gertrude Blount to Henry Percy. Henry Courtney then proposed a match between himself and Anne Boleyn, confident that she would receive him gladly. This attitude (that he was doing her a great favor) went over badly and Anne refused him. She and James went over the marriage contract their fathers (and the King) had drawn up. Anne found the terms most amenable and asked James if there was any reason why they not wed; he could find none (didn't even look for one, in reality). The second betrothal was Anne Boleyn and James Butler. Both marriages were set (a day apart) at court in the fall.
Late August found Katherine better, but still not well. Her husband and sons had returned to court; and, true to form, Henry was as cautious as ever greeting his wife. The boys were not so fearful, hugging their mother before going back to the schoolroom.
On the 27th, Katherine was dressing when she felt a sharp pain in her side. It happened again, and she recognized it for what it was and called Leanor back over. She placed Leanor's hand under hers and the kick happened again. Both women stared in happiness at one another.
"Tienes un bebe vivo, mi reina!" Leanor exclaimed.
,
"Si," said Katherine through tears of happiness. "Where is my husband?"
"He's here, I'll get William to take me to him. Do I tell him the good news, or just bring him to you, my Queen?"
"Ask him to come; tell William the good news so that he can urge him here as well."
By the 31st of August, the good news was over almost all of England. William Carey was knighted by the King for being the messenger.
Although she was mostly recovered from the miscarriage, Katherine was still not completely well. Henry, with his pathological fear of illness, returned to the progress with his sons.
Two mornings after he left, Katherine awoke in surprising good spirits. She told her ladies she'd had a dream in which the Virgin Mary told her that her womb would be fruitful again and no more of her children would die. She was congratulated by everyone, but only Leanor truly believed her. The rest filed it under wishful thinking.
The middle of July brought romance to her ladies. Henry Courtney was wooing both Gertrude Blount and the witty, enigmatic (to him) Anne Boleyn; Henry Percy wooed Anne Boleyn and Gertrude Blount; James Butler was interested only in Anne Boleyn, his erstwhile fiancée. Gertrude was vacillating between the two Henrys while Anne Boleyn was not interested in Henry Courtney (she considered him betrothed to Gertrude), she was interested in Henry Percy (but disliked that he was also courting Gertrude and seemed just as interested in her as in Anne); Anne was surprised to find James Butler a pleasing fellow, who was teaching her Gaelic. She did not, however, consider that they were courting.
August brought the first betrothal: Gertrude Blount to Henry Percy. Henry Courtney then proposed a match between himself and Anne Boleyn, confident that she would receive him gladly. This attitude (that he was doing her a great favor) went over badly and Anne refused him. She and James went over the marriage contract their fathers (and the King) had drawn up. Anne found the terms most amenable and asked James if there was any reason why they not wed; he could find none (didn't even look for one, in reality). The second betrothal was Anne Boleyn and James Butler. Both marriages were set (a day apart) at court in the fall.
Late August found Katherine better, but still not well. Her husband and sons had returned to court; and, true to form, Henry was as cautious as ever greeting his wife. The boys were not so fearful, hugging their mother before going back to the schoolroom.
On the 27th, Katherine was dressing when she felt a sharp pain in her side. It happened again, and she recognized it for what it was and called Leanor back over. She placed Leanor's hand under hers and the kick happened again. Both women stared in happiness at one another.
"Tienes un bebe vivo, mi reina!" Leanor exclaimed.
,
"Si," said Katherine through tears of happiness. "Where is my husband?"
"He's here, I'll get William to take me to him. Do I tell him the good news, or just bring him to you, my Queen?"
"Ask him to come; tell William the good news so that he can urge him here as well."
By the 31st of August, the good news was over almost all of England. William Carey was knighted by the King for being the messenger.
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Really funny to see how the romances between the youths of the Court go on, just like high school...I wonder who Henry Courtenay marries ITTL, now that Gertrude Blount is married elsewhere.
Very "Henry" move, that, putting all the responsibility on the messenger for bearing news be it good or bad.
@vandevere: Katherine is pregnant STILL. She simply lost one of the babes.
@LadyPseudonym: that's why I had him do it. Never mind that Leanor was the official messenger from his wife, H8 knights the dude.
Anyone: who should Henry Courtenay wed, since his arrogance cost him the woman he wanted? I have a couple of ideas, but want more (I greedy). Should he marry soon or wait?
@LadyPseudonym: that's why I had him do it. Never mind that Leanor was the official messenger from his wife, H8 knights the dude.
Anyone: who should Henry Courtenay wed, since his arrogance cost him the woman he wanted? I have a couple of ideas, but want more (I greedy). Should he marry soon or wait?
Seriously, what was Courtenay thinking, acting like he's doing Anne Boleyn a favor?
He was doing fine until Gertrude decided she preferred the more polite Henry Percy. Apparently, this TL's Courtenay is arrogant.
I've got a couple of ladies as ideas: There's at least one Howard girl (Isabel Leigh, the Duke's step-niece by Edmund's wife Jocasta Culpeper) - and it's not Catherine; Isabel is of age, even a year or so older than Henry C. If we make Henry C wait for it, he could conceivably wed Catherine Howard. Or even Kathryn Parr (who's not quite old enough to wed yet, he'd be waiting 5 or 6 years).
But I'd like other ideas - and/or thoughts on the one's I've mentioned.
He was doing fine until Gertrude decided she preferred the more polite Henry Percy. Apparently, this TL's Courtenay is arrogant.
I've got a couple of ladies as ideas: There's at least one Howard girl (Isabel Leigh, the Duke's step-niece by Edmund's wife Jocasta Culpeper) - and it's not Catherine; Isabel is of age, even a year or so older than Henry C. If we make Henry C wait for it, he could conceivably wed Catherine Howard. Or even Kathryn Parr (who's not quite old enough to wed yet, he'd be waiting 5 or 6 years).
But I'd like other ideas - and/or thoughts on the one's I've mentioned.
Katherine Howard and Parr are both a bit too young. Perhaps Mary Fiennes?
Courtenay can not marry one of Norfolk’s half-sisters? They are around the right age for marrying now…
Catherine Howard is born around 1499, Elizabeth around 1506 (Dorothy and Anne are too young being born around 1511)
She is half-sister of any Duke of Norfolk? No, so I am DEFINITELY NOT talking about her, but of ANOTHER Catherine Howard (her half-aunt by the way)…
They are daughters of the Dowager Duchess (born Agnes Tilney), second wife of the second Duke
-Mary Talbot
-A de Vere girl, either Margaret, Dorothy, or Ursula de Vere(all sisters of the Earl of Oxford)
-Katherine Stafford if she is not married yet
-Any of the daughters of George Manners, Baron de Ros: Anne, Eleanor, Elizabeth, Catherine, or Margaret
Some of the daughters do not have exact birthdates, but their brothers/OTL husbands are more or less of an age with Courtenay, so in general they should be born in the 1497-1503 range. Several of them wed in 1520, though, so Courtenay's got to be quick. Mary Talbot, Katherine Stafford, or any of the Duke of Norfolk's half-sisters would do very nicely.
EDIT: The daughters of the Earl of Westmorland or Margaret Stanley, daughter of the Earl of Derby might do, but I can't pin down their exact birth dates.
-A de Vere girl, either Margaret, Dorothy, or Ursula de Vere(all sisters of the Earl of Oxford)
-Katherine Stafford if she is not married yet
-Any of the daughters of George Manners, Baron de Ros: Anne, Eleanor, Elizabeth, Catherine, or Margaret
Some of the daughters do not have exact birthdates, but their brothers/OTL husbands are more or less of an age with Courtenay, so in general they should be born in the 1497-1503 range. Several of them wed in 1520, though, so Courtenay's got to be quick. Mary Talbot, Katherine Stafford, or any of the Duke of Norfolk's half-sisters would do very nicely.
EDIT: The daughters of the Earl of Westmorland or Margaret Stanley, daughter of the Earl of Derby might do, but I can't pin down their exact birth dates.
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1519 - September
September 1519
"He looks like a baby," was Anne's pronouncement on her nephew William Brandon. Mary laughed along with her as the nurse took the babe away.
"You sound like father," Mary told her as they settled themselves and Mary began to pour from the pitcher of mead for them. "Mother says he takes after his father in looks, but coloring is hard to tell until they're two or three." She handed her sister a goblet. "I understand from mother that you've accepted James Butler as a future husband. I thought you didn't want a lame Irishman." She teased.
Anne raised her glass in an acknowledgement of the words she was now taking back. "He's a better gentleman than the others who were courting."
"I thought Henry Percy was a dream and Henry Courtenay quite the gentleman," Mary said, quoting letters from her younger sister.
"Percy was a dream, until I got to know him better. He fooled me for a while. He's still got Gertrude fooled, in my opinion. He's angry. I don't know why, but he's got this wrath inside. He's never really happy and it's never his fault if something goes wrong." Anne stopped speaking as a servant bearing a tray entered.
"I figured you'd be hungry, I am. Dinner will be late, they had to clean the flues before they could start; there was a small fire in the kitchen chimney yesterday morning." Mary waited until the young man had left before continuing their conversation. "And why not Courtenay?"
Anne rolled her eyes. "He really wants Gertrude, but he was flirting with a couple of the Duke of Norfolk's daughters - Anne and Catherine, I think. She got angry because he kept making sure she knew of the other women. So, I guess he'll be asking Norfolk for daughters. But that's not why I refused him. He insinuated that I couldn't get a husband unless the king bribed someone. And then he asked me when he heard that Mary Talbot was entering a convent - which is the reason giving for breaking the engagement with Henry Percy. Let him ask Uncle for a wife, I don't want to be 'settled for' - I want to be wanted."
"And James wants you," Mary said. Anne nodded.
"He's not at all what I thought. He's smart and intelligent and agrees that I should come back to court after our first child."
"Will you have to go to Ireland for the birth?"
Anne nodded. "Unfortunately. But maybe I'll like it. I didn't think I'd likre Jamie and look how that turned out." Mary nodded and picked up a piece of cheese, but didn't eat. Anne knew what that meant. "What?"
"Mother says father's upset that he still hasn't been elevated."
"I may have some news on that," Anne said, taking the cheese from her sister and eating it herself. "It seems that the King wants it look likes father's earned the titles, so father will be elevated one step at a time."
"Oh, I'm going to be the daughter of Baron Hever, am I?" asked Mary. Anne shrugged as she put a slice of cheese on bread and took a bite.
"He looks like a baby," was Anne's pronouncement on her nephew William Brandon. Mary laughed along with her as the nurse took the babe away.
"You sound like father," Mary told her as they settled themselves and Mary began to pour from the pitcher of mead for them. "Mother says he takes after his father in looks, but coloring is hard to tell until they're two or three." She handed her sister a goblet. "I understand from mother that you've accepted James Butler as a future husband. I thought you didn't want a lame Irishman." She teased.
Anne raised her glass in an acknowledgement of the words she was now taking back. "He's a better gentleman than the others who were courting."
"I thought Henry Percy was a dream and Henry Courtenay quite the gentleman," Mary said, quoting letters from her younger sister.
"Percy was a dream, until I got to know him better. He fooled me for a while. He's still got Gertrude fooled, in my opinion. He's angry. I don't know why, but he's got this wrath inside. He's never really happy and it's never his fault if something goes wrong." Anne stopped speaking as a servant bearing a tray entered.
"I figured you'd be hungry, I am. Dinner will be late, they had to clean the flues before they could start; there was a small fire in the kitchen chimney yesterday morning." Mary waited until the young man had left before continuing their conversation. "And why not Courtenay?"
Anne rolled her eyes. "He really wants Gertrude, but he was flirting with a couple of the Duke of Norfolk's daughters - Anne and Catherine, I think. She got angry because he kept making sure she knew of the other women. So, I guess he'll be asking Norfolk for daughters. But that's not why I refused him. He insinuated that I couldn't get a husband unless the king bribed someone. And then he asked me when he heard that Mary Talbot was entering a convent - which is the reason giving for breaking the engagement with Henry Percy. Let him ask Uncle for a wife, I don't want to be 'settled for' - I want to be wanted."
"And James wants you," Mary said. Anne nodded.
"He's not at all what I thought. He's smart and intelligent and agrees that I should come back to court after our first child."
"Will you have to go to Ireland for the birth?"
Anne nodded. "Unfortunately. But maybe I'll like it. I didn't think I'd likre Jamie and look how that turned out." Mary nodded and picked up a piece of cheese, but didn't eat. Anne knew what that meant. "What?"
"Mother says father's upset that he still hasn't been elevated."
"I may have some news on that," Anne said, taking the cheese from her sister and eating it herself. "It seems that the King wants it look likes father's earned the titles, so father will be elevated one step at a time."
"Oh, I'm going to be the daughter of Baron Hever, am I?" asked Mary. Anne shrugged as she put a slice of cheese on bread and took a bite.
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