The Heirs of Henry VIII and Katherine
- Thread starter desmirelle
- Start date
I don't know, but going off of what her IOTL story is, and how you deliberately stated she's the ONLY one not laughing...perhaps it's just me though
I suspect he probably knows enough Spanish/French to work this one out. It won't go well if he hears Katherine and her ladies denigrating his light-o-love so, even if it is true.
Yes. This is how.
- Sir John le Blount (b. 1298 - d. 1358) m. Isolda de Mountjoy (b. 1307 - d.?)
- Sir John Blount (b. c. 1345 - d. 4 April 1425) m. Isabella Cornwall (b. 1348 - d. 1424)
- John Blount of Deddington (b. 1395 - d. 2 May 1442) m. Alice de la Bere (b. 1394 - d. 28 October 1445)
- Humphrey Blount, Sherrif of Shropshire (b. 1421 - d. 12 October 1477) m. Elizabeth Wynnington (b. 1428 - d. 20 April 1478)
- Thomas Blount, Sherrif of Shropshire (b. 1455 - d. 4 June 1524) m. Anne Croft (b. 1458 - d. 27 September 1549)
- Sir John Blount (b. 1469 - d. 14 February 1531) m. Catherine Peshall/Pershall (b. 1483 - d. 1 February 1541)
- Bessie Blount, mother of Henry Fitzroy (b. c. 1498/1500/1502 - d. 1539/1540)
- Sir John Blount (b. 1469 - d. 14 February 1531) m. Catherine Peshall/Pershall (b. 1483 - d. 1 February 1541)
- Thomas Blount, Sherrif of Shropshire (b. 1455 - d. 4 June 1524) m. Anne Croft (b. 1458 - d. 27 September 1549)
- Humphrey Blount, Sherrif of Shropshire (b. 1421 - d. 12 October 1477) m. Elizabeth Wynnington (b. 1428 - d. 20 April 1478)
- John Blount of Deddington (b. 1395 - d. 2 May 1442) m. Alice de la Bere (b. 1394 - d. 28 October 1445)
- Walter Blount (b. 1348 - d. 21 July 1403) m. Sancha, Lady de Ayala (b. 1 June 1360 - d. 1418)
- Thomas Blount (b. 1390 - d. 1456) m. Margaret Gresley (b. 1393 - d. 1456)
- Walter Blount, 1st Baron Mountjoy (b. 1 February 1420 - d. 1 August 1474) m. Helena Bryon (b. 1416 - d. 1468)
- John Blount, 3rd Baron Mountjoy (b. 1 May 1450 - d. 12 December 1485) m. Lora Berkeley (b. 1454 - d. 1501; future Countess of Ormond and step-mother to Thomas Boleyn's mother)
- William Blount, 4th Baron Mountjoy (b. 1478 - d. 8 November 1534) m. Elizabeth Saye (b. 1480 - d. July 21 1506)
- Gertrude Blount (b. 1499 - d. 26 September 1558)
- William Blount, 4th Baron Mountjoy (b. 1478 - d. 8 November 1534) m. Elizabeth Saye (b. 1480 - d. July 21 1506)
- John Blount, 3rd Baron Mountjoy (b. 1 May 1450 - d. 12 December 1485) m. Lora Berkeley (b. 1454 - d. 1501; future Countess of Ormond and step-mother to Thomas Boleyn's mother)
- Walter Blount, 1st Baron Mountjoy (b. 1 February 1420 - d. 1 August 1474) m. Helena Bryon (b. 1416 - d. 1468)
- Thomas Blount (b. 1390 - d. 1456) m. Margaret Gresley (b. 1393 - d. 1456)
- Sir John Blount (b. c. 1345 - d. 4 April 1425) m. Isabella Cornwall (b. 1348 - d. 1424)
*~*~*~*~*
The Elizabeth Saye (Gertrude Blount's mother) married to the 4th Baron Mountjoy is, through her father (via his mother), related to Jane Seymour, Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard:
- Elizabeth Cheney (b. April 1422 - d. 25 September 1473) m1. Sir Frederick Tilney (d. 1445); m2. Sir John Saye (b. 1415 - d. 12 April 1478)
- Elizabeth Tilney (b. 1444 - d. 4 April 1497) m. Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk (b. 1443 - d. 21 May 1524)
- Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Wiltshire (b. 1480 - d. 3 April 1538) m. Thomas Boleyn, 1st Earl of Wiltshire (b. 1477 - 12 March 1539)
- Anne Boleyn (b. 1501/1507 - d. 19 May 1536)
- Edmund Howard (b. 1478 - d. 18 March 1539) m. Joyce Culpeper (b. 1480 - d. 1528)
- Katherine Howard (b. between 1521-1525 - d. 1 3 February 1542)
- Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Wiltshire (b. 1480 - d. 3 April 1538) m. Thomas Boleyn, 1st Earl of Wiltshire (b. 1477 - 12 March 1539)
- William Saye (b. 1452 - 1529) m. Elizabeth Fraye
- Elizabeth Saye (b. 1480 - d. July 21 1506) m. William Blount, 4th Baron Mountjoy (b 1479 - d. 8 Noveber 1534)
- Gertrude Blount (b. 1499 - d. 26 September 1558)
- Elizabeth Saye (b. 1480 - d. July 21 1506) m. William Blount, 4th Baron Mountjoy (b 1479 - d. 8 Noveber 1534)
- Anne Saye (died before 22 October 1494) m. Sir Henry Wentworth (b. 1448 - d. between 17 August 1499 and 27 February 1501)
- Margery Wentworth (b. 1478 - d. 18 October 1550) m. Sir John Seymour (b. 1474 - d. 21 December 1536)
- Jane Seymour (b. 1508 - d. 24 October 1537)
- Margery Wentworth (b. 1478 - d. 18 October 1550) m. Sir John Seymour (b. 1474 - d. 21 December 1536)
- Elizabeth Tilney (b. 1444 - d. 4 April 1497) m. Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk (b. 1443 - d. 21 May 1524)
Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard are first cousins to each other (they share grandparents: Elizabeth Tilney and Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk)
Jane Seymour and Gertrude Blount are second cousins to each other (they share great-grandparents: Elizabeth Cheney and Sir John Say)
Jane Seymour and Gertrude Blount are half-second cousins to Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard (they share one great-grandparent: Elizabeth Cheney - Anne and Katherine come from her marriage to Frederick Tilney, while Jane and Gertrude come from her marriage to Sir John Saye).
If that is too complicated, I have a family tree on Family Echo that I can PM to you that makes it even easier to understand.
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She smiled while thinking. She was figuring out what to do to 'help' the queen. She and Anne Hastings seemed to be of one accord. Not suspicious, but a way to get into the Queen's good graces.
Yes, it is a messy tree. The family just goes on forever. There's even another branch I cut out there too!
If either of you require it, I have a much easier tree on Family Echo! Just shoot me a PM for it!
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Mistress Blount is already with child, why else is she telling people the King is the father and why else would the Annes (sister of the Duke of Buckingham and the sister of the Duchess of Suffolk) be making sure the King learns he wasn't first, probably wasn't last, but was in there sometime?
It would be more likely to be Anne Hastings or her sister Elizabeth; Henry is suspicious of Edward Stafford, not friendly with him. So, his sisters might be considered 'fair game'. Mary Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk is the wife of his best friend (if there was such a thing for Henry VIII), is currently pregnant and is not in H8's sights. You have a low opinion of Mary Boleyn, don't you?
I mean, she was already his mistress IOTL. I'm not particularly sure a marriage to Charles does a lot to help that...
1519 - the rest of February
February 12th
Portion of a letter from the Queen-Regent of France to her brother the King of England:
“. . . Francis will recover, but cannot walk at present. The physicians are not in agreement as to whether or not this will change in the future. I pray it does. His mother, of course, does not wish to leave him unless it is absolutely necessary. The physicians are agreed that her hysterics do not help him in recovery; which makes it worse for her since they insist on limiting her contact. Francis has told me he is glad that they have done so, for it was wearying to have his mother always about and crying. The accident was brutal and bloody from what I’ve been told.
I have sent Renee to be with Claude during her confinement. I think it is best to keep the girl away from Louise, as the constant bemoaning the injury of her son is not beneficial for her. I’m glad that Claude has the child to come to think of, and the confinement to get her away from Louise, for much the same reason. I wish it were possible to send Louise away without insult, but there we are.
I feel sorry for Louise; she witnessed her son’s unhorsing at the tusks of the boar and the attack that followed. Luckily, the men with Francis acted quickly or the Duke would have surely died. But she cannot speak of it without sobbing, and so everyone must be most careful about her. Even the fact that her scream at witnessing the boar attack the horse, she alerted the others faster, saving his life, does not comfort her. Of course, her hysteria made it worse once the boar was killed and allowed the companion of Renee to go missing. Renee and her companions had followed Louise into the woods and when the second boar arrived, it divided them, leaving Therese and Josephine apart from the others. While Josephine, having brothers, climbed the nearest tree, poor Therese turned and ran deeper into the woods.
Louise’s actions meant that the girl’s flight was not noticed promptly. The girl’s body – what was left of it by the wolves – was found three days later and brought for burial. I have paid for the funeral.
As for your letter of 14 January, I must advise against doing anything of the sort for Mistress Blount. It would be encouraging whoredom amongst the queen’s ladies and that will not do. If you must stray, you should confine yourself to married women whose husbands think it is honor or your droit du seigneur. I am sure you were not the only titled man with whom she consorted. I am confident my sister Katherine will agree with me. . .”
Portion of a letter from the Queen-Regent of France to her brother the King of England:
“. . . Francis will recover, but cannot walk at present. The physicians are not in agreement as to whether or not this will change in the future. I pray it does. His mother, of course, does not wish to leave him unless it is absolutely necessary. The physicians are agreed that her hysterics do not help him in recovery; which makes it worse for her since they insist on limiting her contact. Francis has told me he is glad that they have done so, for it was wearying to have his mother always about and crying. The accident was brutal and bloody from what I’ve been told.
I have sent Renee to be with Claude during her confinement. I think it is best to keep the girl away from Louise, as the constant bemoaning the injury of her son is not beneficial for her. I’m glad that Claude has the child to come to think of, and the confinement to get her away from Louise, for much the same reason. I wish it were possible to send Louise away without insult, but there we are.
I feel sorry for Louise; she witnessed her son’s unhorsing at the tusks of the boar and the attack that followed. Luckily, the men with Francis acted quickly or the Duke would have surely died. But she cannot speak of it without sobbing, and so everyone must be most careful about her. Even the fact that her scream at witnessing the boar attack the horse, she alerted the others faster, saving his life, does not comfort her. Of course, her hysteria made it worse once the boar was killed and allowed the companion of Renee to go missing. Renee and her companions had followed Louise into the woods and when the second boar arrived, it divided them, leaving Therese and Josephine apart from the others. While Josephine, having brothers, climbed the nearest tree, poor Therese turned and ran deeper into the woods.
Louise’s actions meant that the girl’s flight was not noticed promptly. The girl’s body – what was left of it by the wolves – was found three days later and brought for burial. I have paid for the funeral.
As for your letter of 14 January, I must advise against doing anything of the sort for Mistress Blount. It would be encouraging whoredom amongst the queen’s ladies and that will not do. If you must stray, you should confine yourself to married women whose husbands think it is honor or your droit du seigneur. I am sure you were not the only titled man with whom she consorted. I am confident my sister Katherine will agree with me. . .”
She's in a position (Queen-Regent) where she can afford to be, whereas OTL she wasn't the mother of a king. Someone in the family has to have the brains, they can't all have been lost with Arthur - Margaret is, well, an entitled twit who screwed herself out of a regency position for her child and Henry seems to think only sporadically (and sometimes with his 'little head').
Margaret was in a difficult situation and miscalculated the consequences of her remarriage, like her granddaughter. Still if Angus and Darnley had been truly the men who they pretended to be, neither wedding would be bad at all.