Hm, James Butler IOTL certainly was NOT an Adonis, but who knows, right?
The Heirs of Henry VIII and Katherine
- Thread starter desmirelle
- Start date
1519 - January
Part of a letter from the Duchess of Suffolk to her younger sister, received at Hever by Anne on 30 January:
". . . I have been able to get the Queen to agree that you should take my place when I go to my home for the delivery of the baby. If you wish to wear the French hood without being thought partisan or forward, I suggest you have six or more made for the Queen and give them to her as gifts of thanks for the honor of replacing me. She may not wear them at official court functions, but she might wear them privately, among the ladies. That would set a precedent without insult and you may be able to continue to wear them. I know I would prefer them.
Yes, James Butler is still at court. But being at court, you will get to know him (through other people as well as personally) and be able to judge whether or not the two of you would be compatible (as you complained). If, once knowing him, you still do not wish to marry, your wishes will be given more credit, being based on your personal knowledge of the man rather than your dislike for being married off to a man you do not know.
I don't know how to answer your question about remaining at court once I return. If Queen Katherine takes a liking to you (and provided you are not too much in the company of the King), it is entirely possible that you would get to stay. . . ."
". . . I have been able to get the Queen to agree that you should take my place when I go to my home for the delivery of the baby. If you wish to wear the French hood without being thought partisan or forward, I suggest you have six or more made for the Queen and give them to her as gifts of thanks for the honor of replacing me. She may not wear them at official court functions, but she might wear them privately, among the ladies. That would set a precedent without insult and you may be able to continue to wear them. I know I would prefer them.
Yes, James Butler is still at court. But being at court, you will get to know him (through other people as well as personally) and be able to judge whether or not the two of you would be compatible (as you complained). If, once knowing him, you still do not wish to marry, your wishes will be given more credit, being based on your personal knowledge of the man rather than your dislike for being married off to a man you do not know.
I don't know how to answer your question about remaining at court once I return. If Queen Katherine takes a liking to you (and provided you are not too much in the company of the King), it is entirely possible that you would get to stay. . . ."
Ooh, interesting!
Here Anne wants to stay in Katherine's court, what a great difference to what we know IOTL...and I like the idea of sending French hoods to Katherine, I wonder how Katherine would react to that...
Given that they are 8 (we're in January 1519) and 5 years of age, they are both too young to 'get on better' with their father at present. When they're older, H8 will relate more to John than Hal - both H8 and John want to believe they're winning any athletic game on their own prowess, while Hal figures out fast that he is 'allowed' to win. There will be other differences and likenesses as the boys grow up.
Obviously, there's to be no Field of Gold in 1520. France and England are enjoying a period of peace. (Helped a lot by the fact that the King is three.)
What about the Duke of Buckingham? Is he still going to be the total jerk he was OTL? He did send his sister away for cavorting with the king and thought his family's claim superior.
What about the Duke of Buckingham? Is he still going to be the total jerk he was OTL? He did send his sister away for cavorting with the king and thought his family's claim superior.
It was considered less modest compared to the gable hood which was the English fashion at the time. French Hoods allowed a woman to show off her hair, which (at the time) was considered a vanity, or showed that the woman was of loose morality (like the English felt the French were)... Basically.
Charles IX of France is three in January 1519. OTL King Henry VIII and King Francis met for the Field of Gold in 1520.
Are Gertrude Blount and Elizabeth (Bessie) Blount related? Does anyone know? I've looked, but . . .
No info on that but for me is pretty unlikely who they were related, from what is available, at least we can exclude who they were closely related…
While it is possible, I doubt so, for you would think people would bring it up. Like they do with Jane Seymour/Katherine Parr relationship as sisters-in-law.
1519 - during the first week of February
February 6th (Thursday)
Four of her women sat with the Queen, embroidering altar cloths. Three of them English, acquired after her coronation. The fourth had arrived as a maid-in-waiting with Princess Catalina, married (as several had) an Englishman, given birth, and been widowed. Leanor was quiet, but observant as the others talked. The Queen herself sat rigidly at her table, her fingers drumming on her book of hours as she listened as Gertrude Blount, Jane Parker, and Anne Hastings talked.
“We thought you should know, as Bessie’s saying the child is the King’s,” Jane repeated.
Gertrude seemed tired of the subject, she shared a room with Jane and Jane loved gossip. “I wish she had a different surname. Everybody knows we come from different families, but it makes me feel tainted somehow. But, as I understand it,” she looked at Jane, who loved to hear gossip as well as tell it, “she’s expecting the king to find her a titled husband as he’s the one who fathered her child.”
“La puta may find that harder than she thinks,” offered Leanor without looking up. The others looked at her, but she remained focused on her embroidery. “Am I not right, Senora Ana?” The focus shifted to Lady Anne Hastings, sitting across from her.
Anne was not Leanor, she stopped her work to look at the Queen. Katherine nodded almost imperceptibly, then resumed her needlework. Anne looked at the younger women. “My brother, claims that he had her first and that he was her first.” Anne smiled. It was well known that her brother, the Duke of Buckingham was proud and arrogant, considering (not openly) that his claim to the throne was as good as that of the Tudors.
“I wonder if my husband knows of this boast,” Katherine murmured, glancing swiftly at Lady Hastings.
“I’m sure my brother would be glad to tell the King of it,” she replied drily. “He likes beating the King at social activities.” The queen managed not to smile, but Leanor chuckled and both Gertrude and Jane broke out in laughter.
Then Jane took the conversational lead again. “I heard the Cardinal Wolsey has been given the task of finding a husband for her.”
“I wonder if this is the Cardinal’s own idea, because he believes the child is the King’s or if Mistress Blount has told my husband that he is the father?” The Queen asked aloud. She then looked at her needlework and shook her head. “I have made too many mistakes today, you ladies continue, I wish to lie down. Come, Leanor.” The two Spanish-born ladies left the room.
The door had just shut when Anne Boleyn entered from the other door, embroidery work in hand. “Your majes-“ She stopped herself and looked around. “Where is the Queen? I wanted to report on the Prince’s reaction to the shirts she made that mirrored the King’s.” She looked at Lady Hastings. “Is she coming later?”
“She’s gone for a nap,” the older woman told her. “After she was told of ‘la puta’ Bessie’s claims.” She looked thoughtful. “Wonder if La Puta could be a title to give her?” Everyone but Mistress Boleyn laughed out loud, Anne smiled but immediately looked at Lady Anne.
“So she knows of your brother’s claims?”
Lady Anne nodded, “But not of the other two who have said she’s graced her bed as well. There is only so much you can tell the Queen. Don’t want to have her angrier.”
“Does the King know of these claims?” asked the younger woman. "He is here."
“We hadn’t gotten that fair when the Queen left,” Gertrude offered.
Anne tossed her embroidery hoop and set down the small basket with her needles and smaller hoops. “Perhaps we should ensure the King does know of other possibilities.”
Lady Anne put her own work aside and rose. “Perhaps we should.” She looked over at the other two. “Keep sewing, we’ll be back soon.”
“What if the Queen –“ began Jane.
“Hush, Jane,” said Gertrude. “I’ll think of something to tell her.” She looked with a smile at the pair about to leave. “Good luck, ladies.” Both Annes nodded and continued out of the room.
Four of her women sat with the Queen, embroidering altar cloths. Three of them English, acquired after her coronation. The fourth had arrived as a maid-in-waiting with Princess Catalina, married (as several had) an Englishman, given birth, and been widowed. Leanor was quiet, but observant as the others talked. The Queen herself sat rigidly at her table, her fingers drumming on her book of hours as she listened as Gertrude Blount, Jane Parker, and Anne Hastings talked.
“We thought you should know, as Bessie’s saying the child is the King’s,” Jane repeated.
Gertrude seemed tired of the subject, she shared a room with Jane and Jane loved gossip. “I wish she had a different surname. Everybody knows we come from different families, but it makes me feel tainted somehow. But, as I understand it,” she looked at Jane, who loved to hear gossip as well as tell it, “she’s expecting the king to find her a titled husband as he’s the one who fathered her child.”
“La puta may find that harder than she thinks,” offered Leanor without looking up. The others looked at her, but she remained focused on her embroidery. “Am I not right, Senora Ana?” The focus shifted to Lady Anne Hastings, sitting across from her.
Anne was not Leanor, she stopped her work to look at the Queen. Katherine nodded almost imperceptibly, then resumed her needlework. Anne looked at the younger women. “My brother, claims that he had her first and that he was her first.” Anne smiled. It was well known that her brother, the Duke of Buckingham was proud and arrogant, considering (not openly) that his claim to the throne was as good as that of the Tudors.
“I wonder if my husband knows of this boast,” Katherine murmured, glancing swiftly at Lady Hastings.
“I’m sure my brother would be glad to tell the King of it,” she replied drily. “He likes beating the King at social activities.” The queen managed not to smile, but Leanor chuckled and both Gertrude and Jane broke out in laughter.
Then Jane took the conversational lead again. “I heard the Cardinal Wolsey has been given the task of finding a husband for her.”
“I wonder if this is the Cardinal’s own idea, because he believes the child is the King’s or if Mistress Blount has told my husband that he is the father?” The Queen asked aloud. She then looked at her needlework and shook her head. “I have made too many mistakes today, you ladies continue, I wish to lie down. Come, Leanor.” The two Spanish-born ladies left the room.
The door had just shut when Anne Boleyn entered from the other door, embroidery work in hand. “Your majes-“ She stopped herself and looked around. “Where is the Queen? I wanted to report on the Prince’s reaction to the shirts she made that mirrored the King’s.” She looked at Lady Hastings. “Is she coming later?”
“She’s gone for a nap,” the older woman told her. “After she was told of ‘la puta’ Bessie’s claims.” She looked thoughtful. “Wonder if La Puta could be a title to give her?” Everyone but Mistress Boleyn laughed out loud, Anne smiled but immediately looked at Lady Anne.
“So she knows of your brother’s claims?”
Lady Anne nodded, “But not of the other two who have said she’s graced her bed as well. There is only so much you can tell the Queen. Don’t want to have her angrier.”
“Does the King know of these claims?” asked the younger woman. "He is here."
“We hadn’t gotten that fair when the Queen left,” Gertrude offered.
Anne tossed her embroidery hoop and set down the small basket with her needles and smaller hoops. “Perhaps we should ensure the King does know of other possibilities.”
Lady Anne put her own work aside and rose. “Perhaps we should.” She looked over at the other two. “Keep sewing, we’ll be back soon.”
“What if the Queen –“ began Jane.
“Hush, Jane,” said Gertrude. “I’ll think of something to tell her.” She looked with a smile at the pair about to leave. “Good luck, ladies.” Both Annes nodded and continued out of the room.
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Oh, I love this chapter. Of course I wonder if la puta COULD be a title...and Anne Boleyn not laughing, hmm...
It means something like ‘the wh*re’ in Spanish (but maybe with a little more ‘umph’ behind it than the English) so I should hope not!
Well...does Henry know Spanish? If he doesn't, I'm sure he won't mind his wife using this title... (/sarcasm)
Ah my apologies then...I must say, Anne Boleyn as the only one not laughing is a little...suspicious