Thank you for your response and for clarifying. I wonder if the defeat of Charles in the battle against the Danes will not cause a civil war among the Obodrites between the pro-Franco faction and the rest. Some chiefs might have tried to pass under Danes sovereignty and practically annexing part of the lands to the Danish state. Besides it would be nice to see what would come out of syncretism which and the Slavic and Nordic faith.
The Hammer and the Cross (A Norse & Carolingian tl)
- Thread starter Zillian
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Zillian
Gone Fishin'
Like I mentioned in Discord, the envoy of Rhomania and Pepin Carloman was in the midst of a negotation over Venice as well as Charlemagne's imperial diginity in summer of 810. With Charlemagne's earlier downfall, Basileus Nikephoros would refuse to recognized both Charlemagne and his possible successor as emperor. The Battle of Pliska will also happen next year and the outcome will be effected.
For Al-Andalus, like Jürgen and DanMcCollum mentioned, the ideology of holy war would be dismissed and thus the Reconquista, which is also a crusade, would be effected. So yes I think Al-Andalus would survive
And while mentioning Slavs, we should also notice that Slavs were also present in southeastern part of Charlemagne's state and the death of Charlemagne at that stage means:
a) Carantania probably becomes independent again under native princes, since they lost independence in 828 for supporting https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powstanie_Ljudevita (the Wiki article about that uprising is only in Polish, Croatian and Russian so OP @Zillian would need to use Google Translate in reading about it)
b) There is no one to stop Slavic re-settlement in Pannonia (Slavs took it over after Avars got yeeted and Charles stopped them), so Pannonia will most likely end up more Slavic than IOTL, there might even be some state formed (IOTL, according to Czech medievist Dusan Trestik, Ljudevit, duke of Lower Pannonia was close to forming lasting state there, so if Franks are removed from picture it's likely he'd achieve that)
c) primary cultural influence on rising Slavic states (TTL Great Moravia for example) would be still Avar, not Frankish
So the whole central Europe would be much more Slavic ITTL with Elbean, Carantanian and Pannonian Slavs presumably surviving (with much higher population of Pannonian Slavs due to lack of Franks stopping settlement even if Hungarians will still invade, they'd most likely get assimilated Bulgar-style)
Responding to @CommonwealthVictory 's post, civil war among Obodrites would be good information to tribe of Polans, as Obodrites were their enemies.
As far as syncretism between Slavic and Nordic faith goes, it's not very likely as Polabians had the most developed paganism among Slavs, in fact most of that what we know about Slavic faith comes from sources about Polabians.
But some residual Nordic influences might be thrown in.
Zillian
Gone Fishin'
@Zygmunt Stary thank you. This is this kind of feedback I wanted. I looked at the english Wikipedia site for Carantania and it did mentioned an anti-Frank revolt. I assume Great Moravia will still rise but it wouldn't convert to Christianity.
I don't think we should see the Reconquista in a context of a holy war, even if it created some of the arguments for the crusading theology. The Reconquista made perfect sense geopolitical something the Crusades didn't. The Al Andalus states were horrible neighbors, who often suffered from political instability and who ruled over large Christian populations. We can also see this in the Reconquista de facto ended in 1249 and the next 250 years they let Granada stay around as a tributary state, it was only with the rise of the Ottomans, the Spanish decided to finish it off, as they feared it would serve as a military base.
I think we should look at Christian expansion in that context, there will be an end of conquest for religious reasons, but geopolitical reasons for conquest still exists.
No need to thank me, the concept of the TL is very interesting and I simply give information about areas in which I am knowledgeable enough to give it.
And all these Slavic ethnicities surviving would make for very different Europe.
And considering that at the height of the Umayyad Caliphate, the Umayyads controlled Septimania and even recieved the peaceful submission of areas of Provence, if things go sufficiently bad for the Franks, the Andalusi might temporarily launch invasions into Southern France.
Arabs not moors, just Africans then, moors like Berber is a slur, plus both clashed and Muslim throw Greek fire to them, plus some vikes converted to Islam and become cheesemakers
Zillian
Gone Fishin'
Sorry no update today. I'll just inform you that I have reached the end of my pre-written stuff. I am also starting a new job next week and then there is the Royal Court expansion to CK3 I wanted to play. Finally I am also working on a new succession game project. So I doesn't think I can keeping a update schedule for every weekend anymore. I have however wrote 1k words so far.
Bedouins then. Arabs that leave Arabia gradually stop becoming that.
Or Amazigh, considering that is the proper endonym for what are traditionally called Berbers.
Seeing as Wikipedia still use Berber as the main description of these people, I would say that there’s no consensus whether it’s a slur. Moor on the other hand is a archaic term pretty much used by nobody today.