The Golden Dragon of Wales: A Glyndwr Rebellion TL

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Chapter 12: Warwick the Kingmaker?
Chapter 12: Warwick the Kingmaker?
Whilst the Percys were establishing their control over the north with the Siege of Lancaster and ‘recruitment’ of Richard of Conisburgh, the Mortimers were having a rather more torrid time in the south. Thomas I arrived in Bristol in March, having fled Preston by sea in late February, and almost immediately began to gather soldiers to him in order to attack the Mortimers in Stafford. In the meantime, however, several naval raids were launched against the port towns of south Wales, the Lancasters having not agreed any actual peace deal with the Welsh, These raids were largely punitive and there was little hope, or indeed intention, of them resulting in a Lancaster invasion of Wales, they did result in some not inconsiderable damage to the port towns of Caerdydd[1] and Casnewydd[2] before the fledging Welsh navy, still made up principally of French and Breton privateers, managed to drive them off. This ultimately proved to be little more than a distraction for the Lancasters as nothing significant came of it and Thomas I and his men moved instead to fight the Mortimers at Stafford. In this campaign, Thomas I was accompanied by the recently ransomed Edward of Norwich and John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset and half-brother of his father Henry IV, as well as his brother John. The force that they assembled was a large one, but smaller than that which Henry IV had taken with him to Cae[3], and numbered some 8,000 men, which were drawn largely from the west country. They marched north through the Hafren[4] valley, a rash choice given the river’s new role as the Welsh and English border claimed by Glyndŵr., though of course the Lancasters did not acknowledge this border. It can hardly be a surprise, therefore, that Thomas I and his army were harassed by Welsh guerrilla forces as they headed northwards and thus arrived outside Stafford having weary after the long march.

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One of the Welsh guerillas in the Hafren Valley

To make matters more inconvenient for Thomas I and the Lancasters, they arrived at Stafford to find that the Sir Edmund Mortimer had led his army to attack Lichfield, only a day or two previously. Whilst this did improve the possibility of the Lancasters retaking Stafford from the Mortimers, it also ended Thomas I’s hope of ending the Mortimer rebellion in one fell swoop. Nonetheless Thomas I laid siege to the Stafford Castle, which did serve to trap Edmund I, the Mortimer King, in Stafford, though only after the repulsion of a rash assault on the castle by the garrison. This assault cost the Lancasters some 400 men but saw them gain little, and whilst the number of casualties wasn’t hugely significant it was a blow to the morale of the besieging force and a boost for the defenders. Sir Edmund and his army, meanwhile, had seized Lichfield and had their celebrations cut short by news of the Lancaster siege of Stafford. As a result, Sir Edmund was promptly forced to turn his army around to try and relieve their trapped king from the grip of the Lancasters. The situation for the Mortimer cause was swiftly becoming desperate, not least because their army of 6,000 was tired and outnumbered by the Lancasters, though they did have the advantage of Sir Edmund being a far more experienced soldier than Thomas I, who was commanding his own army for the first time.

So it was that the Battle of Stafford began with there being a very real possibility of the Mortimer cause being crushed just as it was getting started. On the one side was the Lancaster army which had hastily been reorganised to the face their oncoming enemy, abandoning their earthworks and defences that had been constructed around Stafford as part of their siege in the process, and on the other side was the Mortimer army which had been carefully arrayed against the Lancaster force by Sir Edmund. Some distance off, meanwhile, sat the army of Richard de Beauchamp, 13th Earl of Warwick and godson of Richard II, who had yet to decide where his loyalties lay in this fight. On the one hand, he had been loyal to Henry IV in the years of his reign but on the other he bore no loyalty to the rash young Thomas I and victor for the Mortimers represented an opportunity for him to advance the fortunes of his house. The battle got off to a good start for the Mortimers, thanks in no part to their better organisation, as the battle began under a cloud of arrows from both sides. The battle was a long and hard one, with the Lancaster numerical advantage telling, slowly but surely. The Lancaster right wing was doing especially well under the command of Beaufort, the seasoned campaigner and veteran of the Barbary Crusade and more, as they ravaged the Mortimer left flank. Indeed, the situation was steadily worsening for the Mortimers as Beaufort and his men began to threaten the Mortimer centre, which had until that point been holding off Thomas I and his Lancaster centre. Things looked bleak for the Mortimers as Beauchamp and his men continued to refuse to commit, but Sir Edmund himself fought bravely, surrounded by his retinue and slowly began to turn back Beaufort and his men.

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John Beaufort, Earl of Somerset

At this point in the battle, Thomas I made a near fatal mistake as he, thinking the battle all but won, led a group of knights, including his brother John, in a charge at Sir Edmund himself, hoping perhaps to cut the head off the Mortimer snake and the end the rebellion in that battle. Things turned bad for Thomas I as the Mortimer soldiers fought hard against the charging knights and by the time they reached Sir Edmund himself Thomas and his knights were flagging. It was at this most opportune of all moments that Beauchamp sent his men charging into battle, smashing into the Lancaster centre, which had been abandoned by their commander. Beauchamp and his forces cut through the Lancaster centre and joined the resurgent the Mortimers and the battle finally ended after a long and bloody day of hand-to-hand fighting as the Lancasters rapidly retreated under the command of Beaufort and John of Lancaster, leaving Thomas I in the clutches of the Mortimers and Beauchamp after he had been cut off from the body of his forces by his rash charge. This was a big moment for the Mortimers as the Lancaster King fell in to their hands and Beauchamp, one of the most powerful of the English nobles as Earl of Warwick, joined their cause in the hope of avoiding the lurking menace of the Percys in the north.

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Richard de Beauchamp, Earl of Warwick

The Battle of Stafford, devastating for both sides fighting, ended the campaigning in the south of England as the Lancasters, now commanded by the far more competent John, aided and abetted by the seasoned John and Thomas Beaufort, Earls of Somerset and Exeter respectively, retreated to lick their wounds. This changing in commanded might appear to be a major blow to the Lancaster cause but closer inspection suggests that it might well be a blessing in disguise as the increased influence of the Beauforts on matters and the elevation of John of Lancaster, a more able politician and general than his rash older brother, substantially improved the quality of the Lancaster command. For the Mortimers, on the other hand, much of their old army had been slaughtered on the field at Stafford, but the defection of Beauchamp to their cause, along with the capture of Thomas I, more than made up for this.

[1] Cardiff
[2] Newport
[3] Chester
[4] Severn
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As promised, here is another chapter, this time dealing with the south of England rather than the north. As usual, feel free to comment and, more importantly, enjoy.
Gwyn
 
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I actually picked up on your TL because of the Ddmk ultra-like discussion in the HOL, my family being half Irish half Welsh, i was curious about a viable "Greater Wales " TL, so i came for a look.
I'm up to page 3 & enjoying it, bookmarked & i'll be trying to catch up, hope you don't mind if i occasionally like things when i've got nothing to say x'D.
 
I actually picked up on your TL because of the Ddmk ultra-like discussion in the HOL, my family being half Irish half Welsh, i was curious about a viable "Greater Wales " TL, so i came for a look.
I'm up to page 3 & enjoying it, bookmarked & i'll be trying to catch up, hope you don't mind if i occasionally like things when i've got nothing to say x'D.
Thanks, glad to have you.
There's a long way to go from there still. :p
fascinating timeline! enjoying it and waiting for more! :)
Thanks, there might well be another chapter up today.
 
Chapter 13: Anything You Can Do
Chapter 13: Anything You Can Do
Whilst the English took a break from butchering each other on muddy fields and sat back to lick their wounds and regroup, their bitter foes across the Channel began to descend into their own civil war as the dispute between the Houses of Valois-Orléans and Valois-Burgundy bubbled over whilst Charles VI was afflicted by his reoccurring bouts of madness. The heads of both houses were closely related to Charles VI, being princes of blood, and had long been rivals for control of the French Regency Council which ruled when Charles VI was incapacitated. At the head of the House of Valois-Orléans was Louis I, Duke of Orléans, the younger brother of Charles VI and alleged lover of Queen Isabeau, whilst the head of House Valois-Burgundy was John the Fearless, Duke of Burgundy and cousin of Charles VI.

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John the Fearless

The causes of the dispute between the two Dukes, who, it should be noted, only held their duchies in the status of appanage as neither were first in line to the French throne, were strongly rooted in the problems of the reign of Charles VI and a clash between contrasting social and economic systems. The Orléanists, perhaps due to their stronger position in the French court since the death of Philip the Bold, Charles VI’s uncle, favoured the traditional French model of a strong feudal and religious system that had a focus on agriculture, whilst the Burgundians, thanks in part to their strong trade links to England through the Flemish wool trade, favoured something closer to the English system in which artisans, merchants and cities were of high importance. Whilst this dispute enhanced the rivalry between the two houses, in any other period of French history little would have come of it, but Charles VI’s madness and bouts of incapacitation from 1393 onwards had necessitated the creation of a regency council which Queen Isabeau presided over. Initially, Philip the Bold of Burgundy exercised great influence over the Queen but after Philip’s death in 1404 the influence of the Burgundian faction waned under his son John the Fearless, even as the influence of the Orléanists grew steadily until, despite the best efforts of John, Duke of Berry and another of Charles VI’s uncles, to mediate between the rivals, it exploded into violence.

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Queen Isabeau of France

The Orléanist-Burgundian rivalry reached new heights in the early 1400s, even as French troops were being dispatched to aid the cause of Glyndŵr in Wales, when Louis of Orléans managed to have the Burgundians expelled from the regency council, this being partially responsible for the withdrawal of French soldiers in 1406, and had also moved to block the territorial expansion of the Burgundians by the purchase of the Duchy of Luxembourg in 1404. To add insult to injury, there were also rumours that Louis of Orléans had attempted to seduce Margaret of Bavaria, Duchess of Burgundy. All of these actions drove John the Fearless to desperation as Louis of Orléans, backed by not inconsiderable amounts of money from the French crown, seemed to be blocking him and his ambitions at every turn and he had only one answer, the assassination of his rival. Before he could take action, however, John had to move to build support for his cause among the French people and he did just that, launching a campaign of demagoguery that aimed to exploit the anger of the French taxpayers, always under pressure in peacetime, and that fact that much of what they paid went directly to pay for festivities at the royal court. His promises were certainly good, offering the French people a new ordinance, in the style of the Great Ordinance created by Étienne Marcel at the Estates-General of 1357, that would cut taxes, reduce the power of the King and put in place further reforms of the state administration. With these promises, John was able to convince the merchants, city folk and the universities to join his cause.


Étienne Marcel

Thinking himself secure in his position, John made his move on the 23rd November 1407, only a few days after Queen Isabeau had given birth to her twelfth child, a son named Philip. Louis of Orléans had journeyed to see Isabeau at her residence at Hôtel Barbette and whilst he was there received word from Thomas de Courteheuse that his presence was urgently required by Charles VI at Hôtel Saint-Paul. Louis promptly hurried out into the Rue Vieille du Temple where he was set upon by fifteen armed and masked thugs, led by Raoulet d’Anquetonville, a servant of John the Fearless. Louis’ small retinue of valets and guards proved no match for the thugs and were swiftly overwhelmed, with one killed trying to protect Louis. With his retinue driven off, Louis’ hand was cut off and his skull broken with an axe before being left for dead by the Burgundians. With his rival dead in a Paris street, John returned to Paris, where he had great support from the Paris townsfolk and the university, and seized power. In a bid to rub salt into the wounds of the Orléanists, John then had the theologian Jean Petit, an academic at the Sorbonne College of the University of Paris, write a eulogy of tyrannicide to commemorate the killing of Louis of Orléans.


The assassination of Louis of Orléans

Unfortunately, for John, however, the death of Louis did not end the Burgundian-Orléanist rivalry but rather intensified it as Charles, the eldest son and heir of Louis as Duke of Orléans, swore to continue his father’s campaign against the Burgundians and to avenge his death, especially after John escaped unpunished, and his marriage to Charles VI’s daughter Isabella secured the ties of the House of Valois-Orléanis to King. Despite Charles’ lust for vengeance the violence of the Burgundian-Orléanist rivalry subsidised as the new Duke’s young age made him unable to move effectively against the Burgundians for the time being, though it must be noted that much of the French nobility, most notably including Bernard VII, Count of Armagnac, supported the cause of the Charles and the Orléanists.
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We have shifted focus away from the British Isles for the first time to Glyndŵr's old ally, the French and the assassination of Louis of Orleans. As usual, please do comment and, more importantly, enjoy!
Gwyn
 
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Say out of curiosity who controles the Isle of Man currently?

To some extent that's up to the author. In 1399 Henry IV granted the Lordship of Man to the earl of Northumberland, but took it away again in 1405 when Northumberland was attainted and gave it the Stanleys, who ruled it until the 18th century (with one brief interregnum during the Civil War).

The issue here is that the Stanleys are an important Cheshire family and Henry might want them to shore up resistance in that area to Glyndwr. alternatively, taking Man opens up the sea routes to Ireland and offers a base to disrupt French shipping in the Irish sea so there's that on the other side. And of course once Cheshire is mostly lost the Stanleys will want a consolation prize....
 
Exciting times in France!
Indeed, but funnily enough, it actually happened IOTL.
Say out of curiosity who controles the Isle of Man currently?
To some extent that's up to the author. In 1399 Henry IV granted the Lordship of Man to the earl of Northumberland, but took it away again in 1405 when Northumberland was attainted and gave it the Stanleys, who ruled it until the 18th century (with one brief interregnum during the Civil War).

The issue here is that the Stanleys are an important Cheshire family and Henry might want them to shore up resistance in that area to Glyndwr. alternatively, taking Man opens up the sea routes to Ireland and offers a base to disrupt French shipping in the Irish sea so there's that on the other side. And of course once Cheshire is mostly lost the Stanleys will want a consolation prize....
An interesting question actually, I have been pondering what to do with the Isle of Man and have toyed with giving it to Glyndwr, the Percys, the Mortiemrs, the Scottish and even having it as independent. Currently it is most likely in the hands of the Stanleys, after having been taken from the Percys i the last years of Henry IV's rule. Given that Chester has fallen and much of Cheshire is either under Welsh or Mortimer control, the Stanleys have most likely now shifted their powerbase to the Isle of Man and thus it should serve as a usual base for Lancaster naval operations against the Percys, the Welsh and to harass French shipping.
 
Indeed, but funnily enough, it actually happened IOTL.


An interesting question actually, I have been pondering what to do with the Isle of Man and have toyed with giving it to Glyndwr, the Percys, the Mortiemrs, the Scottish and even having it as independent. Currently it is most likely in the hands of the Stanleys, after having been taken from the Percys i the last years of Henry IV's rule. Given that Chester has fallen and much of Cheshire is either under Welsh or Mortimer control, the Stanleys have most likely now shifted their powerbase to the Isle of Man and thus it should serve as a usual base for Lancaster naval operations against the Percys, the Welsh and to harass French shipping.

I think giving it to the Stanleys also makes a lot of sense because of something else you've written about. Stanley married into substantial estates in south-west Lancashire and the surprising success of the Lancastrians around Liverpool would become a good deal less surprising if they're being supported by the Stanleys both from their estates and from Man (I think there's no real possibility of Stanley cutting a deal with Northumberland given the clashing interests they have).
 
If Mann is being used as a base against the Welsh, wouldn't it be logical for Glyndwr to try & conquer it & add it to his domains ?
Especially now the English are otherwise occupied. With his eh… kingdom ? at temporary peace, he should have a core of professional soldiers & officers underemployed, never a good idea in those times.
Also in turn it could be a base for operations against the Pale in Ireland, he should be worried about having potential enemy territory on both sides of Wales.
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
As the Pale had been mentioned - I'd like to ask how is it doing? As there is a lively Civil War going on in England, isn't it a bit adrift ATM? Who is runnig the show there? However that person is - isn't he (she?) on their own?
Another butterfly? If the Civil War rages on for sufficient time the person in Dublin might discover that he likes to be independent. Would the Hiberno-Normans go for independence?
 
As the Pale had been mentioned - I'd like to ask how is it doing? As there is a lively Civil War going on in England, isn't it a bit adrift ATM? Who is runnig the show there? However that person is - isn't he (she?) on their own?
Another butterfly? If the Civil War rages on for sufficient time the person in Dublin might discover that he likes to be independent. Would the Hiberno-Normans go for independence?
It'd be either Gerald FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 5th Earl of Kildare or James Butler, 3rd Earl of Ormond, in charge. Their biographies slightly contradict the wiki list of governors of Ireland and each other so I'm unclear who was governor, both at times were Justiciar. This isn't helped by the Mortimers, Stanleys, and younger Lancasters being declared Lieutenants of Ireland or Justiciars several times and the titles overlapping - the respective responsibilities seemed to vary depending on the year and age of holder!
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
It'd be either Gerald FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 5th Earl of Kildare or James Butler, 3rd Earl of Ormond, in charge. Their biographies slightly contradict the wiki list of governors of Ireland and each other so I'm unclear who was governor, both at times were Justiciar. This isn't helped by the Mortimers, Stanleys, and younger Lancasters being declared Lieutenants of Ireland or Justiciars several times and the titles overlapping - the respective responsibilities seemed to vary depending on the year and age of holder!
And yet we complain of the inconsistency of GRRM's Westeros :D
 
It's a lot easier to be consistent if one can check one's own prior writings for 'canon', rather than combing through records which might themselves be erroneous either due to mistakes made at the time, being written later by someone trying to recall events that occurred decades ago, written by someone with an agenda as a propaganda piece or even by someone who didn't actually know what happened, but was writing a larger historic record and decided to just write what he felt sounded good instead of doing research when he didn't know something.

That is, if the records existed and survived to this day in some form.
 
Actually this TL gives Ireland a lot of potential positive futures.
No plantations, the Reformation being able to take a natural course instead of becoming a US v THEM thing, survival of the Gaelic language & culture.
Not to mention the eventual discovery of the America's, Age of Discovery etc.… do you realize just what you have started here, could be a lifetime's work !
 
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I think giving it to the Stanleys also makes a lot of sense because of something else you've written about. Stanley married into substantial estates in south-west Lancashire and the surprising success of the Lancastrians around Liverpool would become a good deal less surprising if they're being supported by the Stanleys both from their estates and from Man (I think there's no real possibility of Stanley cutting a deal with Northumberland given the clashing interests they have).
That is convenient, I might well incorporate that into a later chapter, especially as the Isle of Man seems to be shaping up to be an important focal point in the War of Three Kings, as well as the fate of Ireland.
If Mann is being used as a base against the Welsh, wouldn't it be logical for Glyndwr to try & conquer it & add it to his domains ?
Especially now the English are otherwise occupied. With his eh… kingdom ? at temporary peace, he should have a core of professional soldiers & officers underemployed, never a good idea in those times.
Also in turn it could be a base for operations against the Pale in Ireland, he should be worried about having potential enemy territory on both sides of Wales.
Whilst it might well be advantageous for Glyndwr to try and seize the Isle of Man, not least because of the veteran soldiers he now has underemployed as you mention, but his priority at the moment is undoubtedly to organise the government and systems of his new principality, which hasn't really existed for 200 years, before he makes any moves to expand his domains beyond the provision of the Tripartite Indenture.
As the Pale had been mentioned - I'd like to ask how is it doing? As there is a lively Civil War going on in England, isn't it a bit adrift ATM? Who is runnig the show there? However that person is - isn't he (she?) on their own?
Another butterfly? If the Civil War rages on for sufficient time the person in Dublin might discover that he likes to be independent. Would the Hiberno-Normans go for independence?
It'd be either Gerald FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 5th Earl of Kildare or James Butler, 3rd Earl of Ormond, in charge. Their biographies slightly contradict the wiki list of governors of Ireland and each other so I'm unclear who was governor, both at times were Justiciar. This isn't helped by the Mortimers, Stanleys, and younger Lancasters being declared Lieutenants of Ireland or Justiciars several times and the titles overlapping - the respective responsibilities seemed to vary depending on the year and age of holder!
The Pale, like the Isle of Man, is an area that I haven't yet decided what to do with yet. The ideas I've considered include having it as Welsh, Northumbrian or independent as just another Irish lordship. If Glyndwr does take it, that won't happen for some time, what with the already mentioned reorganisation of Wales and the taking of the Isle of Man having to happen first, which would allow for a window of independence.
Actually this TL gives Ireland a lot of potential positive futures.
No plantations, the Reformation being able to take a natural course instead of becoming a US v THEM thing, survival of the Gaelic language & culture.
Not to mention the eventual discovery of the America's, Age of Discovery etc.… do you realize just what you have started here, could be a lifetime's work !
Indeed, the English have far less opportunity to meddle in Irish affairs, even if one single faction manages to re-unite England and Wales after the current wars. The new independent Wales, which is of Celtic/Briton origin like the Irish, will certainly help the Irish culture and language. As for the long term implications of the new independent Wales they have the possibility to be massive and the potential to, as you say, become a lifetime's project if I don't burn out first.
 
You could have Glyndwr start a goal of uniting all (insular) Celtic peoples. He doesn't have to succeed, it just need needs to be a set goal of his and his descendants'.
 
You could have Glyndwr start a goal of uniting all (insular) Celtic peoples. He doesn't have to succeed, it just need needs to be a set goal of his and his descendants'.
So create a Celtic Union, a nation of Cornwall, Wales, Ireland and Scotland? That is one hell of an ambition for a man who has only just won his country's independence by force of arms.
 
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