As long as the Canadian government doesn't actually have to pay, I cant see why they'd object to a factory which ships goods to Britain. Its all win-win from their pov.
The Forge of Weyland
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
The Depression had left quite a few manufacturers out of business. It might actually be possible to find a pretty suitable sight that is open.
Driftless
Donor
Even if the British accept the big cost outlay of buying from the US, what would they get? The M-3 's Lee's and Stuarts' they historically used weren't even designed yet by mid-1939. They didn't reach production numbers till 1941. M-2 Light tanks, with a British gun? Maybe M-2 Mediums, again with a British gun? Those last two are pretty un-inspiring choices. Some half-tracks, either as personnel carriers or with some type of cannon? Though I gather that (A) half-tracks weren't a preferred option and (B) I also gather the carrier production isn't quite the scare that the constraints for tank production were.
*edit* Get a jump start on the engine and component making process? Have Packard (or someone else) take a whack at the Kiwi diesel (not a quick solution). Some US manufacturer(s) make suspension systems or tank tracks?
*edit* Get a jump start on the engine and component making process? Have Packard (or someone else) take a whack at the Kiwi diesel (not a quick solution). Some US manufacturer(s) make suspension systems or tank tracks?
Last edited:
marathag
Banned
M2A4 was one of the top three early war light tanks of anywhere.
M2 Medium. hmm.
To be charitable, it had a great chassis
Derek Pullem
Donor
Canadian armoured cars will go quite nicely with the shift in equipment in the cavalry divisions.
Especially if they step up to the more heavily armed ones.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Doesn't get built until after France.M2A4 was one of the top three early war light tanks of anywhere.
M2 Medium. hmm.
To be charitable, it had a great chassis
By that time RTC had worked out that light tanks were a dead end. ITTL I think they have almost reached that conclusion before war breaks out.
Saying the M2A4 is the best light tank is akin to describing the Boulton Paul Defiant as the best turret armed interceptor - correct but not very useful.
marathag
Banned
Little difference from M2A4 of November 1938 and the 'Honeys' of 1941.
It was able to fill the role of a medium tank until 1942. Also the most reliable AFV of any weight until the Sherman.
Perfect? Of course not. But hard to do better on 13 tons.
Looking at the spec, its pretty useless in Europe. Why spend scare dollars on something that the British consider obsolete in 1939?
My Grandad only ever had good things to say about the Defiant. His took a hammering that would have downed a Spit or Hurricane. Not saying it was good, but they had some use.
marathag
Banned
True, but is still twice as fast, yet keeping 25mm armor, and US radios were the best, the most important bit for a light tank.We aren't comparing it to things like the OTL A9 and A10 TTL
Stuarts could have been up armed far more than what the US Armor Board decided on.
For 1939, its hard to do better, but is also important to remember, it was to be working with Medium and Heavy tanks as well.
Military aborted that line of doctrine when M4mania did so well in the Desert, when it was the best Medium Tank of the day.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Except the M2A4 wasn't put into production until May 1940 and so wouldn't be available in UK service until after Dunkirk and the lessons from France. Which underlined the limited role of light tanks. They may work against Italian or Japanese armour but they are mobile coffins against German opposition.
And Britain had its own light tank, the Tetrarch available from July 1940 but delayed for exactly the reasons outlined above.
marathag
Banned
Except they weren't, in the Desert. That's all OTL, and that was with the Donkey Walloper tactics, as well against the DAK
marathag
Banned
And that was a terrible tank in comparison. It's on no-ones top ten list, except 'Boondoggle'
Derek Pullem
Donor
From the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_light_tank
Britain ordered 100 M2A4s in early 1941. After 36 of them were delivered, the order was canceled in favor of an improved M3 Stuart. The fate of these vehicles is unclear. There is evidence that indicates those 36 M2A4s were shipped off from North Africa as part of the British Army's 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment, fighting in the India and Burma campaigns against the Japanese 14th Tank Regiment.[21][22] However, according to historian Mike Green, the tanks were never issued to combat units.[8]
Derek Pullem
Donor
But the British thoughts on light tanks were clear - they have no business in the line of battle and armoured cars do the scouting job cheaper and to some extent better.
Better than a Pz II as well. For what matters, it can stand up to either Pz III or Pz IV if it comes under attack- though we all know a Matilda cannot catch themThe Matilda II isn't a terrible tank, its well suited to supporting the infantry, and would release the faster tanks for other roles. It's a lot better than nothing (or a Pz I
I have a few questions to ask. How difficult is for railway firms to build Matildas? Are there any plans for indepedent tank battalions (as the French used the R35s)?
Also would it help time-wise to stockpile beforehand non-bottleneck components (driver's optics, road wheels, tracks, machine guns etc)? I don't have knowledge of supply chains and production, but it is a fair question I guess.
marathag
Banned
But they didn't have many armored cars either, after they found that MG armed Mk VI light tanks with 14mm armor were totally worthless in France of 1940 and in the Desert against even the Italians thru 1941.
There's quite a difference between a 5 ton Mk VI, 8 ton Tetrarch and 13 ton M2A4
Last edited:
marathag
Banned
Odd that Mk VIB were still on the rolls, when they passed M4A2s along. There is hardly any difference between the M2A4 and M3
Err, how long do you think it takes to be build a major factory? Let's say Vickers decides it's going to build a tank factory. First they have to find a site which has enough land, access to manpower, electricity supply, and transportation links to bring in supplies and take out the finished product. Then they need to do a quick survey to make sure there are no surprises underneath. Building plans need to be drawn, although whether that can possibly be shortened by reusing plans from the UK. A construction firm has to be hired, who in turn need to line up workers and supplies. Then you can start actually building the thing. You do at least get to run the purchasing of the equipment to go inside the finished factory concurrently.
Last edited: