As IOTL, the Indian population in the US at this point is tiny (and mostly Sikh). The Ghadar Movement is active within the IWW, as the concentration of Indians in the Western rail and lumber industries has resulted in most Indian-Americans joining the IWW and SLP, reinforced after the SLP helped kill the 1917 Immigration Act. We could see a larger Indian migration after the war.
The Fire Never Dies: Labor's Star Ascendant
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
-
- Tags
- iww socialist america
Is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagat_Singh_Thind joined labour movement?
Also are there any impact of Labor movement on spirituality?
Also are there any impact of Labor movement on spirituality?
Honestly i think most German officials would be absolutely shocked, since it would have initially looked like their U-boat campaign had backfired on them, only for a revolution to suddenly flare up and not only preoccupy the US' attention but totally its halt arms exports.
But it also means that all the warring powers are going to be very wary of strikes and military mutinies in case it means a wave revolutions are once again going to sweep across the Atlantic like it had in the late 18th & early 19th century. Everyone's populations are getting exhausted and their militaries are beginning to run on fumes, and Germany has made some pretty solid gains in the east by this point, so there's some incentive to quit while you're ahead.
The only sticking point might be belgium, which as i understand it yowards the end if the war the German military and the kaiser were getting thoughts of keeping it for strategic advantage, which none of the allies would accept.
The germans would probably demand a neutral Belgium, which means demolition of the forts at the border with Germany, the annexation of Luxemburg, recongnising of Brest-Litovsk and maybe they'll try to get either German South West Africa or German East Africa back, but I doubt they'll get anything out of Europe. France obviously wants A-L back and would not budge but at that point, if a cease fire is ongoing, it's a waiting game of who has revolutions first and altough Germany can't feed themselfs just with Ukraine, they can't maybe alleviate things on the home front enough + some reforms pushed by the SPD to outlast the french.
Except that, without the bolshevik revolution and the total collapse of the Russian lines, Germany doesn't control Ukraine, and the Russian government wouldn't make a separate peace
Even if the Russian Provisional Government doesn't want to surrender, they can't continue the war, the soldiers are simply refusing to fight, at this point in time Russia isn't really a military threat to Germany anymore. We maybe will not be seeing the Soviet Union, but someone else will demand the end of the war, It's impossible for the russians to hold the germans if they want to reach Ukraine.
I disagree. I think that the evidence from before kerensky's June offensive suggests that the Russian could hold the line defensively, so if the government held off on making any offensives they could probably survive by the skin of their teeth
Ok so how about this, Kerensky urges a cease fire citing the fact he can barely hold Russia together, revolution is already happening in the US and fears of a domino effect convinces the Entente. With said cease fire the germans restart what they can from the fertilizer production that was stopped in favor of ammunition production to try to alleviate the famine.
Bhagat Singh Thind has just joined the Washington Red Guard.
There will be an eventual post on the impact of the Revolution on religion. While a high proportion of socialist leaders are some degree of nontheist, enough of their supporters are that the ASU will maintain the separation of church and state.
Pretty much, except the German laughter is less funny and more "going mad".
Kaiser Wilhelm has publicly commented that he might give Otto Steinbrinck (the skipper of the U-boat that sank the Arabia) a medal for effectively ending the American arms exports, then shoot him for being a reckless idiot.
There will be a Bolshevik uprising. IMO, that was nearly inevitable. And Germany has just seen how quickly a socialist revolution can paralyze a country.
I don't think Kerensky's competent enough to go that route. IIRC he was rather big on the only way forward for Russia being through 'glorious victory.'
What is view of labour movement about eastern religions? I am wondering because this time new age movement and vedanta was reaching its zenith.
44. The War in the West
…the West had long been a hotbed of socialist activity. When the Revolution began, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, and Washington all had SLP governors, and their National Guards were largely under Red control (although portions of the Montana National Guard escaped eastwards). Arizona, Oregon, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming were at least nominally under White control…
…Apart from blood-soaked California, the largest states in the West were Washington and Colorado. Since his election in 1914, Colorado Governor Charles Moyer had spent a considerable amount of money (largely funded by raising taxes on the Colorado business community) expanding the Colorado National Guard. While originally a moderate, he had come around to the radical view which held that revolution would only be achieved through violence. After seizing the Colorado Fuel and Iron Company facilities in Pueblo, Moyer ordered them retooled into arms factories. Rather than directly engage with General Liggett in Kansas, he established defensive positions in the east of the state and ordered Brigadier John Lawson[1] to move into Wyoming. On May 19, he routed Adjutant General Rasmus Anderson at the Battle of Cheyenne. Montana Red Guards moved south to help secure the state. Moyer would remain behind, using his organizational talents to manage Colorado’s arms industry, turning it into what would become the “Arsenal of the West”…
…After securing the Washington National Guard (now the Washington Red Guard), Governor Bill Haywood took personal command and led them south to invade Oregon, leaving Lieutenant Governor Harry Ault to oversee the state. Aware that he was outnumbered, and dealing with a Red insurgency of his own, Governor James Withycombe ordered the Oregon National Guard to destroy all the bridges across the Columbia. The order was carried out, but Sollies in Western Oregon seized the town of Astoria and set up a ferry system, allowing the Red Guards to cross. By May 21, Haywood and his troops were entrenched outside Beaverton…
…Utah was the primary center of White strength in the West. The state government was firmly under White control. However, many of the mining towns were Red. On May 3, after receiving his orders to form the Army of the Rockies, Brigadier Richard Young appealed to the elders of the Church of Latter Day Saints for assistance. The Nauvoo Legion was resurrected and thousands of Mormons enlisted. Unable to stop Young’s advance, Colonel Joe Hill[2] organized a campaign of fighting retreats and sabotage. His goal was to prevent Young from linking up with any outside forces, particularly those in Arizona and New Mexico. Soon, he received excellent news: Pancho Villa’s army had crossed into New Mexico…
- From Red Star Rising: A History of the Second American Revolution by Tom Clancy
[1] Lawson was a leading figure in the Colorado Coalfield Strike (known as the Coalfield Wars IOTL).
[2] Joe Hill is known IOTL as perhaps the most famous IWW songwriter. IOTL, he was executed for a murder he probably did not commit in 1915. This has been butterflied ITTL thanks to stronger SLP power in local government.
…Apart from blood-soaked California, the largest states in the West were Washington and Colorado. Since his election in 1914, Colorado Governor Charles Moyer had spent a considerable amount of money (largely funded by raising taxes on the Colorado business community) expanding the Colorado National Guard. While originally a moderate, he had come around to the radical view which held that revolution would only be achieved through violence. After seizing the Colorado Fuel and Iron Company facilities in Pueblo, Moyer ordered them retooled into arms factories. Rather than directly engage with General Liggett in Kansas, he established defensive positions in the east of the state and ordered Brigadier John Lawson[1] to move into Wyoming. On May 19, he routed Adjutant General Rasmus Anderson at the Battle of Cheyenne. Montana Red Guards moved south to help secure the state. Moyer would remain behind, using his organizational talents to manage Colorado’s arms industry, turning it into what would become the “Arsenal of the West”…
…After securing the Washington National Guard (now the Washington Red Guard), Governor Bill Haywood took personal command and led them south to invade Oregon, leaving Lieutenant Governor Harry Ault to oversee the state. Aware that he was outnumbered, and dealing with a Red insurgency of his own, Governor James Withycombe ordered the Oregon National Guard to destroy all the bridges across the Columbia. The order was carried out, but Sollies in Western Oregon seized the town of Astoria and set up a ferry system, allowing the Red Guards to cross. By May 21, Haywood and his troops were entrenched outside Beaverton…
…Utah was the primary center of White strength in the West. The state government was firmly under White control. However, many of the mining towns were Red. On May 3, after receiving his orders to form the Army of the Rockies, Brigadier Richard Young appealed to the elders of the Church of Latter Day Saints for assistance. The Nauvoo Legion was resurrected and thousands of Mormons enlisted. Unable to stop Young’s advance, Colonel Joe Hill[2] organized a campaign of fighting retreats and sabotage. His goal was to prevent Young from linking up with any outside forces, particularly those in Arizona and New Mexico. Soon, he received excellent news: Pancho Villa’s army had crossed into New Mexico…
- From Red Star Rising: A History of the Second American Revolution by Tom Clancy
[1] Lawson was a leading figure in the Colorado Coalfield Strike (known as the Coalfield Wars IOTL).
[2] Joe Hill is known IOTL as perhaps the most famous IWW songwriter. IOTL, he was executed for a murder he probably did not commit in 1915. This has been butterflied ITTL thanks to stronger SLP power in local government.
While Swami Vivekananda was already touring the US in the 1890s, I'm doubtful that awareness of his teachings would be widespread among the American working class. Besides, as mentioned above, most Indian-Americans at this time were Sikh, not Hindu. That said, those Sikhs (and what Hindus there were) have found the IWW a very accepting environment. I'm not sure what you're referring to with the New Age movement - the one I'm familiar with emerged in the 1960s.
Oh, this is awesome, and the pace is fast.
So let me throw in my 2 cents on Russia before things have moved on too much already.
I am not sure if Kerensky is going to come to power on OTL schedule, and if so, under the same circumstances.
We're in May 1917, right?
Prime Minister of the Provisional Government is still Lvov. Have the April Days occurred? There was some unrest among Petrograd (and other) workers about the Provisional Government not sticking to the soviets' maxime of "Peace without Annexations or Indemnities". The Provisional Government (not just Kerensky, but the whole lot really) were of the opinion that the Entente and Associated Powers expected a commitment to the war effort from them, and that they vitally needed the assistance of the Entente and Associate Powers, both financially and militarily, and that hopefully it would be able to stem the tide, or more aptly put, that the new democratic Russia would hopefully be able to turn the tide with the help of the Western allies, because the alternative was, in their view, that the entire Slavic world would come under the imperial yoke of the Germans and Austro-Hungarians.
Now, with a Revolution occurring in America, and explicitly in rejection of entering the imperialist war, Russian revolutionaries to the left of the Kadets might be inspired to be more pacifistically minded, too. And they will surely be a lot less confident that the Entente can effectively help them win this thing finally.
That doesn't mean they'll all turn to Lenin's Defeatism right away. But there might be a rift among the Russian Left between those who seek an alliance with Red America and a merely defensive stance against the Germans and any other imperialist power because the world revolution has evidently come, and those who think that this won't save Russia so Russia is doomed to fight on (the Defencist position of OTL, but less popular).
All of this could mean the April Days are fiercer than IOTL, so maybe an earlier political shake-up in Petrograd?
If Kerensky comes to power earlier, things look only slightly different, but still. There are plenty of options here. Without Trotsky bringing in the Mezhraiontsy, the Bolsheviks will be weaker, and the Left generally more splintered.
So let me throw in my 2 cents on Russia before things have moved on too much already.
I am not sure if Kerensky is going to come to power on OTL schedule, and if so, under the same circumstances.
We're in May 1917, right?
Prime Minister of the Provisional Government is still Lvov. Have the April Days occurred? There was some unrest among Petrograd (and other) workers about the Provisional Government not sticking to the soviets' maxime of "Peace without Annexations or Indemnities". The Provisional Government (not just Kerensky, but the whole lot really) were of the opinion that the Entente and Associated Powers expected a commitment to the war effort from them, and that they vitally needed the assistance of the Entente and Associate Powers, both financially and militarily, and that hopefully it would be able to stem the tide, or more aptly put, that the new democratic Russia would hopefully be able to turn the tide with the help of the Western allies, because the alternative was, in their view, that the entire Slavic world would come under the imperial yoke of the Germans and Austro-Hungarians.
Now, with a Revolution occurring in America, and explicitly in rejection of entering the imperialist war, Russian revolutionaries to the left of the Kadets might be inspired to be more pacifistically minded, too. And they will surely be a lot less confident that the Entente can effectively help them win this thing finally.
That doesn't mean they'll all turn to Lenin's Defeatism right away. But there might be a rift among the Russian Left between those who seek an alliance with Red America and a merely defensive stance against the Germans and any other imperialist power because the world revolution has evidently come, and those who think that this won't save Russia so Russia is doomed to fight on (the Defencist position of OTL, but less popular).
All of this could mean the April Days are fiercer than IOTL, so maybe an earlier political shake-up in Petrograd?
If Kerensky comes to power earlier, things look only slightly different, but still. There are plenty of options here. Without Trotsky bringing in the Mezhraiontsy, the Bolsheviks will be weaker, and the Left generally more splintered.
The modern New Age movement did, true, but there was an earlier wave of interest in "eastern religions" in the late 19th and early 20th century, which saw the emergence of religions like theosophy that would certainly be called "new age" if they had arisen in the 1960s instead. Many common "new age" tropes actually date from this period, or rather were first developed here and only later popularized. This would really be more of a middle-class phenomenon, though, not a working-class one I don't think, and rather marginal for sure either way.
Last edited:
And also a movement with many racist sentiments, which the esoterically inclined factions of the nazis picked up
dentista campora
Banned
I see the british tory folks going headfirst into esoteric fascism this tl, if they manage ti hold onto india.
Let me guess it ends up like the failed attempt by the Spartacus League to overthrow Weimar here.
Something like that. I've already stated that there won't be a Soviet Union in this timeline.