The Falcon Cannot Hear: The Second American Civil War 1937-1944

[ColeMercury]

Welcome back!

 

[Alex1guy]

YAY! IT'S BACK!

Really looking forward to more of this!

RE Australia:

CMIIW but maybe with Singapore and Malaysia intact Australia is less paranoid?

 

[Hnau]

This was a fine timeline to read and it's cool that we can continue on from where we left off. I'm sure you've driven perdedor insane with him wanting to update his army lists!

I predict the Reds will win this.

The Red Oak Pact is going to make some gains against the Fascists, while they do horrible things in waging scorched earth campaigns. Will the KKK blame Huey Long's faction and take over? Will Huey Long blame the KKK and throw them under the bus? Will we see the emergence of a different faction of political power in the South? And when that happens, is it possible that the Reds will turn from the South against the Blues?

 

[ThePest179]

Gad to see this back. I suspect when the dust settles in Europe nazi Germany will still fall but the 'Iron Curtain' will be a lot further east With Soviets bogged down in Asia. Britain may well come out this war far stronger as its imperial possessions in the Far East will never be threatened and the US has been removed as an economic rival.

...having their own economy nearly killed in the process.

And their Far East colonies may be threatened yet. How has the super depression treated European colonies, particularly Britain's Arab territories, (Palestine, Iraq, and Egypt more specifically) and South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand?

 

[Hnau]

Stalin even had a separate Moscowite government established in the troglodyte city of Yan’an- nominally as a regional government of the CSR, but it could have become a national government if Ruijin fell.

Troglodyte?

 

[Deckhand]

Underground?

 

[Legend-in-Exile]

Troglodyte?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaodong

Cave dwelling.

 

[Gian]

Good to have this back.

So, maybe we'll see a Manchu SSR that'll actually speak the Manchu language (as well as Russian, of course) due to Chinese anti-Soviet resentment?

 

[Constantinople]

So, maybe we'll see a Manchu SSR that'll actually speak the Manchu language (as well as Russian, of course) due to Chinese anti-Soviet resentment?

Ehh.... I don't know. The population of Manchuria at the time was quite high. I'm not sure the USSR *really* wants to try and absorb 40+ million Chinese, Manchurian, and Korean citizens...

 

[Gian]

Ehh.... I don't know. The population of Manchuria at the time was quite high. I'm not sure the USSR *really* wants to try and absorb 40+ million Chinese, Manchurian, and Korean citizens...

Doesn't hurt them anyway. Plus, if there's anything about the Russians, it's that they'll always want an even warmer port

 

[Alex1guy]

Troglodyte?

It's underground, I wanted to go there during my trip but the snow and cold were unbearable

 

[Alternate History Geek]

Ehh.... I don't know. The population of Manchuria at the time was quite high. I'm not sure the USSR *really* wants to try and absorb 40+ million Chinese, Manchurian, and Korean citizens...

I think what he's trying to say is a Manchu SSR with the Chinese formerly resident there either marched south across the border at gunpoint, thrown in the GULAG, or simply shot en masse.

 

[Constantinople]

I think what he's trying to say is a Manchu SSR with the Chinese formerly resident there either marched south across the border at gunpoint, thrown in the GULAG, or simply shot en masse.

Oh.


I mean.... that involves killing most of the people in the province, being that Chinese have been the majority for a really long time...

 

[Gian]

I think what he's trying to say is a Manchu SSR with the Chinese formerly resident there either marched south across the border at gunpoint, thrown in the GULAG, or simply shot en masse.

Oh.


I mean.... that involves killing most of the people in the province, being that Chinese have been the majority for a really long time...

What I meant was that Manchuria would have been desinicized, where the Chinese would be "encouraged" to speak Manchu, coupled with some Russian migration there.

Basically, kind of like this.

Also, we have to remember, we're still dealing with Stalin at this point.

 

[Historyman 14]

Gad to see this back. I suspect when the dust settles in Europe nazi Germany will still fall but the 'Iron Curtain' will be a lot further east With Soviets bogged down in Asia. Britain may well come out this war far stronger as its imperial possessions in the Far East will never be threatened and the US has been removed as an economic rival.

Unless Japan does try something, or they do something Churchill. Either way, the Empire is doom. It is doom. They are no winners in this world.

 

[King of the Uzbeks]

Unless Japan does try something, or they do something Churchill. Either way, the Empire is doom. It is doom. They are no winners in this world.

Churchill? That random Conservative? I know only Chamberlian! Fighter of appeasement!

 

[WarPlanInfrared]

Holy shit ! It's alive ! IT'S ALIIIIVE !

 

[Malanic]

Ephraim you should put link to the previous posts with the updates in the opening post but, aside that, welcome back.

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

But isn't Australia basically going some thing like "America got invaded, that could be us, and soon!". Like the scares of OTL multiplied by 3.

Oh the Australians are terrified. But they know that the situation in Erope means Britain can't back them up, and they don't want to end up at war alone (Canada can't really project power far enough to help Australia either).

IOTL Hitler had East Asians/Japanese people labelled "honorary Aryans". So what prejudices? Did he not say the ITTL? And if he's prejudiced against Asians ITTL, shouldn't he be ecstatic that the USSR and Japan are busy fighting each other? What does he think of the USSR invading China proper (if he even cares)?

As others have noted, making the Japanese honorary Aryans was political move, Hitler never viewed them as equals. He saw them as strategic allies who were racially inferior and OTL the Nazis had to scramble to explain how the Japanese could be so successful when WWII began. ITTL Germany is aligned with both China and Japan, so you can guess what he thinks about the Soviet Union's winning streak...

Did that give them plenty of propaganda (war crimes and such)?

Sure, the Japanese treatment of Vladivostok wasn't much different from their OTL treatment of Manila.

Good to see this back. The way in which the last thread ended was disappointing, but everyone missteps occasionally- so onwards and upwards I guess!

Glad be writing this again, there won't be anything here that isn't 100% EBR.

And a good update to get the ball rolling again- showing this timeline's trick of nicely balancing the plausible and the cinematic.

Thank you.

Re: the Australian discussion. I think you're right that Australia probably won't declare war unilaterally, lacking as it does a powerful enough navy to take on the IJN without help.
However, the desire for war with Japan will be at an absolute peak- and in fact, with France having fallen I suspect there'll be a growing feeling that Britain is keeping Australians fighting in the wrong, lost war.
Not that there'll be an attempt at a separate peace, but many Australians will doubt whether Britain fully understands the magnitude of the "threat to civilisation" posed by a Japan surging across the Pacific.
And if those Japanese are defeated by GODLESS COMMUNIST RUSSIANS that desperation will probably only get worse- after all, one of the bizarre strains of Australian racial paranoia well into the twentieth century was the fear that the Russians would harness the "Mongol hordes" of China against the British Empire.

So you're right: definitely "volunteers" going to Canada, but I think that will be coupled with growing demands from Canberra (and to some extent Wellington) for Britain to formally enter the Asian war.

Hell, I wonder if there might even be some attempts at provoking a casus belli that London can't ignore? Probably not, but this is an unusually tense timeline politically...

Like I said, Australia's scared but stuck. I'll be mentioning their approach re Britain in the next Europe update.

I forget - what's the situation in Eastern Europe right now TTL? Having crushed France and facing a slog through the Pyrenees Hitler must be looking east and rubbing his hands with glee while the Soviets decide to put all their men on the other side of the Urals... The Nazi war economy was basically based on looting their conquests, better keep the war machine turning...

Currently Eastern Europe is in a tense peace. Stalin has strong-armed the Baltics into letting Russia station troops in their territory, Poland is partitioned between the USSR and Germany, and Finland rejected Stalin's demands but the war in the east has saved them from a Winter War.

As for conquests... just wait for it.

Gad to see this back.

Welcome back!

YAY! IT'S BACK!

Really looking forward to more of this!

Holy shit ! It's alive ! IT'S ALIIIIVE !

Really great to have such a friendly reception guys, I'll be honest I wasn't sure what kind of comments I was going to get when I resurrected this.

This was a fine timeline to read and it's cool that we can continue on from where we left off. I'm sure you've driven perdedor insane with him wanting to update his army lists!

I predict the Reds will win this.

The Red Oak Pact is going to make some gains against the Fascists, while they do horrible things in waging scorched earth campaigns. Will the KKK blame Huey Long's faction and take over? Will Huey Long blame the KKK and throw them under the bus? Will we see the emergence of a different faction of political power in the South? And when that happens, is it possible that the Reds will turn from the South against the Blues?

Thanks you. As always I can't really comment on speculation, but I'll say it's interesting speculation.

Troglodyte?

Underground?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaodong

Cave dwelling.

Yup. It's a city, most whose dwellings are located in artificial caves. Yan'an was a major center of the Chinese Communists OTL.

Good to have this back.

So, maybe we'll see a Manchu SSR that'll actually speak the Manchu language (as well as Russian, of course) due to Chinese anti-Soviet resentment?

Ehh.... I don't know. The population of Manchuria at the time was quite high. I'm not sure the USSR *really* wants to try and absorb 40+ million Chinese, Manchurian, and Korean citizens...

Currently the USSR hasn't annexed any Chinese territory, everything they've occupied is technically part of the Chinese Soviet Republic and administered by Communist Chinese Collaborators.

Ephraim you should put link to the previous posts with the updates in the opening post but, aside that, welcome back.

Here you go;

00 - Prologue - 1929
01 - Things Get Bad - 1930-31
02 - President Hoover - 1929-1932
03 - Washington Under Siege - 1932
04 - Things Get Worse - 1932
05 - Farmers and Bankers- 1932-1933
06 - The Garner Administration and the Second Bonus Army - 1933
07 - The ERA and “Civil War” in the Democratic Party - 1933-1934
08 - Things Fall Apart - 1934
09 - The Worst are Filled With a Passionate Intensity - 1934-35
10 - The End of the Crooked Deal - 1935
11 - The Center Cannot Hold - 1935-1936
12 - The Shot Heard Round The World - 1936-1937
13 - The Government Overthrown - 1937
14 - Divided We Fall - 1937
15 - For Brutus is an Honorable Man - 1937-1938
15.5 - Hail Caesar - A 1938 Prose Interlude
16 - The World Wonders - 1938
16.5 - Comic Interlude
17 - Eyes Skyward - 1938
18 - The Tempest - 1938-39
19 - The Disintegration of the Pre-War Military - 1938-39
20 - The World At War - 1938-39
21 - The War in the East - 1932-1939
22 - Operation East - 1939
22.5 - The Grapes of Wrath - A 1940 Prose Interlude
23 - The Japanese Invasion and the Hunting Season - 1940
24 - The True North Strong and Free - 1940
25 - The Fall of France - 1940
26 - Tube Alloys - 1938-41
27 - The Chrysanthemum and the Bear-1940-41

I'll put it in the OP as well.

 

[ThePest179]

Oh the Australians are terrified. But they know that the situation in Erope means Britain can't back them up, and they don't want to end up at war alone (Canada can't really project power far enough to help Australia either).

Do they have an idea of how bad IJA logistics are though? If they do, a simple DoW would break Japan's logistical capabilities.

ITTL Germany is aligned with both China and Japan, so you can guess what he thinks about the Soviet Union's winning streak...

That the Judea-Bolsheviks/Slavs are winning against the Yellow Terror out of sheer numbers?

I can't guess what Hitler's brain is like, honestly.

Sure, the Japanese treatment of Vladivostok wasn't much different from their OTL treatment of Manila.

So over 10% (at least) of the city's population was brutally massacred?

Jeez, the fridge horror came in heavy today (someone add that to the trope page!).

As for conquests... just wait for it.

Which way will Hitler act like an anti-Semite Napoleon this time? Find out in the next installment of The Falcon Cannot Hear.

p)