The Eternal Flame Dies Out: Rome Loses The Siege of Veii
- Thread starter SlyDessertFox
- Start date
Ahhh!!!! Brennus is victorious!!!!! 
Small question: Is it supposed to be whoa, as in "whoa there cowboy", or woe?
Small question: Is it supposed to be whoa, as in "whoa there cowboy", or woe?
Nice catch. I always get confused between the two...I just had to get Brennus' famous line in there somehow.Ahhh!!!! Brennus is victorious!!!!!
Small question: Is it supposed to be whoa, as in "whoa there cowboy", or woe?
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif]Chapter I: The Sons of Tarchon and Aeneas[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif]Part VII:The Battle of Gabii[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] His position secure, Brennus led his army further into Latium in search of more plunder. It had not taken long for the Romans and Tusculans to scrap together a force to challenge the invaders. The army mustered could not have been very large, for they were without the support of many of the Latin League cities. Seeing Rome brought to her knees and the city sacked, a number of them decided this was the optimal time to wrest themselves free from Roman hegemony. It was a weak and but determined force that marched to take back their homeland. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] The opposing armies converged at Gabii. Brennus had lead his warriors to the city after its leaders refused to pay tribute and began a siege of the city. The citizens held out firmly, hoping for the arrival of a Roman-Tusculan force to come to their aid. Their hopes were so on fulfilled, and upon seeing their appearance, Brennus marched his men to crush them. The two armies met on the plains outside Gabii, both drawn up for the confrontation. Brennus led his men from the front on his chariot, his long golden hair flowing behind him in the wind. He personally challenged their leader to single combat, wishing to demoralize the enemy before the battle began. The Romans hesitated, but then a Tusculan noble commanding the Tusculans in the army, by the name Lucius Mamilius, accepted the challenge.[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] War cries from both sides droned out the battlefield. Mamilius was supposedly the best swordsman the Tusculans could offer. He had defeated multiple Volsci champions in single combat and was eager to add the slaying of a Celtic Chieftan to his list of single combat triumphs. Brennus was no meagre Volscian however, and he made quick work of Mamilius. After allowing him the first moves to understand what kind of fighter he was fighting against, Brennus struck back ferociously. His initial swing with his falcata was blocked by Mamilius' shield, but the force of the impact was so great that the shield cracked and nearly split in two, with Mamilius staggering backwards and struggling to remain on his feet. With the next swing, the Tusculan would have no such luck. Raising his sword high above his head, Brennus brought it down with immense force onto Mamilius' head, shattering his helmet and bludgeoning his skull, killing him outright. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] His foe vanquished, Brennus went about severing Mamilius' head, He returned to his chariot, head in hand, while the Romans stood in stunned silence and his own men kicked up a frenzy. The head was tied behind his chariot, where it joined those of Crixus and others he had killed. After seeing their mightiest champion dispatched with such ease, Roman morale plummeted. Emboldened now by their leaders victory, the Celtic warriors charged with intense ferocity, smashing into the Roman lines. The thought of future plunder and battlefield glory filled their minds, as the demoralized Romans struggled to withstand the onslaught. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Seeing the battle quickly turning against him, the Roman commander Servius Sulpicius charged straight into the Celtic lines in self sacrifice in an attempt to secure victory. The sight of the enemy commander cutting down everyone in his path in a bloodletting rage, temporarily terrified some of the Celts in the area and briefly rallied the Romans. Sulpicius was soon cut down however, and by this point the Roman flanks had completely folded, some of the soldiers fleeing towards the walls of Gabii and others back to the walls of Tusculum. Like at the Allia, the Roman soldiers unfortunate enough to be fighting in the center, were surrounded and crushed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Brennus followed up his decisive victory by moving on Tusculum itself. The walls of the city proved too tough to breach, and he was unwilling to settle in for a siege. After crucifying the survivors of the battle of Gabii in full view of the defenders of the city, the Senonorix demanded a large tribute or face the same fate. The Tusculans were in no position or state of mind to continue on with the fighting, and over the objection of the Romans accepted the offer without much hesitation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Satisfied, Brennus now turned back to Gabii, intent on teaching them a lesson for resisting him. Terrified envoys arrived from Gabii with large sums of gold, pleading with him to spare the city. Brennus accepted the gold and then had all but one of the envoys killed on the spot, the other forced to carry their heads back to Gabii with the message that this would soon be their fate. Following through on his word, the Senones brutally sacked and destroyed the city. Those that survived were rounded up and forced into slavery. It was reported by Aeschylus that the Senones were so laiden with loot from the sacking that it took multiple trips to and from Gabii to bring it all back to their base at Rome. It was their that they retired for the winter, filled to the brim with the spoils of their triumphs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif]Part VII:The Battle of Gabii[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] His position secure, Brennus led his army further into Latium in search of more plunder. It had not taken long for the Romans and Tusculans to scrap together a force to challenge the invaders. The army mustered could not have been very large, for they were without the support of many of the Latin League cities. Seeing Rome brought to her knees and the city sacked, a number of them decided this was the optimal time to wrest themselves free from Roman hegemony. It was a weak and but determined force that marched to take back their homeland. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] The opposing armies converged at Gabii. Brennus had lead his warriors to the city after its leaders refused to pay tribute and began a siege of the city. The citizens held out firmly, hoping for the arrival of a Roman-Tusculan force to come to their aid. Their hopes were so on fulfilled, and upon seeing their appearance, Brennus marched his men to crush them. The two armies met on the plains outside Gabii, both drawn up for the confrontation. Brennus led his men from the front on his chariot, his long golden hair flowing behind him in the wind. He personally challenged their leader to single combat, wishing to demoralize the enemy before the battle began. The Romans hesitated, but then a Tusculan noble commanding the Tusculans in the army, by the name Lucius Mamilius, accepted the challenge.[/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] War cries from both sides droned out the battlefield. Mamilius was supposedly the best swordsman the Tusculans could offer. He had defeated multiple Volsci champions in single combat and was eager to add the slaying of a Celtic Chieftan to his list of single combat triumphs. Brennus was no meagre Volscian however, and he made quick work of Mamilius. After allowing him the first moves to understand what kind of fighter he was fighting against, Brennus struck back ferociously. His initial swing with his falcata was blocked by Mamilius' shield, but the force of the impact was so great that the shield cracked and nearly split in two, with Mamilius staggering backwards and struggling to remain on his feet. With the next swing, the Tusculan would have no such luck. Raising his sword high above his head, Brennus brought it down with immense force onto Mamilius' head, shattering his helmet and bludgeoning his skull, killing him outright. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] His foe vanquished, Brennus went about severing Mamilius' head, He returned to his chariot, head in hand, while the Romans stood in stunned silence and his own men kicked up a frenzy. The head was tied behind his chariot, where it joined those of Crixus and others he had killed. After seeing their mightiest champion dispatched with such ease, Roman morale plummeted. Emboldened now by their leaders victory, the Celtic warriors charged with intense ferocity, smashing into the Roman lines. The thought of future plunder and battlefield glory filled their minds, as the demoralized Romans struggled to withstand the onslaught. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Seeing the battle quickly turning against him, the Roman commander Servius Sulpicius charged straight into the Celtic lines in self sacrifice in an attempt to secure victory. The sight of the enemy commander cutting down everyone in his path in a bloodletting rage, temporarily terrified some of the Celts in the area and briefly rallied the Romans. Sulpicius was soon cut down however, and by this point the Roman flanks had completely folded, some of the soldiers fleeing towards the walls of Gabii and others back to the walls of Tusculum. Like at the Allia, the Roman soldiers unfortunate enough to be fighting in the center, were surrounded and crushed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Brennus followed up his decisive victory by moving on Tusculum itself. The walls of the city proved too tough to breach, and he was unwilling to settle in for a siege. After crucifying the survivors of the battle of Gabii in full view of the defenders of the city, the Senonorix demanded a large tribute or face the same fate. The Tusculans were in no position or state of mind to continue on with the fighting, and over the objection of the Romans accepted the offer without much hesitation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Book Antiqua, serif] Satisfied, Brennus now turned back to Gabii, intent on teaching them a lesson for resisting him. Terrified envoys arrived from Gabii with large sums of gold, pleading with him to spare the city. Brennus accepted the gold and then had all but one of the envoys killed on the spot, the other forced to carry their heads back to Gabii with the message that this would soon be their fate. Following through on his word, the Senones brutally sacked and destroyed the city. Those that survived were rounded up and forced into slavery. It was reported by Aeschylus that the Senones were so laiden with loot from the sacking that it took multiple trips to and from Gabii to bring it all back to their base at Rome. It was their that they retired for the winter, filled to the brim with the spoils of their triumphs. [/FONT]
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Chapter I: The Sons of Tarchon and Aeneas
Part VII: Veii and Cisra
Temple of Juno, Veii
Velthur Hathisna was not idle following the destruction of Rome. With Veii's main rival for the control of the salt trade at least for the moment eliminated and the Senones more interested in plunder than matters of trade, his city boomed economically. A large temple to Jupiter began construction in 390 (386 BCE). In contrast with the usual Rasna dislike of Attic art and architecture, Hathisna modeled the temple on the Parthenon in Athenai. A commission was sent out to Hellas in search for an architect, and returned with a young Athenian by the name of Amyntas of Athenai.
Amyntas would become the foremost architect and close confidant of Hathisna, who was a true Phil-hellene. Unique among Rasna for his appreciation of the Attic style, he wished to turn his city into a Hellenic won, if not in spirit, then at least in its appearance. The Great Temple of Juno would merely be the first in a series of ambitious architectural projects Amyntas would undertake in the years to come. He enthusiastically set to work almost immediately after arriving at Veii, with an even grander vision than Hathisna had first imagined. Taking his inspiration from the Parthenon, the Temple of Zeus at Olympia, and one of the seven wonders of the world, the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, Amyntas envisioned a temple that was the epitome of everything grand about Hellenic architecture.
The temple would not be dedicated for another 15 years however, and in the interval, Hathisna busied himself in the realm of foreign affairs. The coastal city of Cisra, long a rival of Veii, had to be brought to heel. With more pressing matters always at hand, this had consistently been an afterthought in Veientine foreign policy. If it was not Rome distracting Veii, then it was internal matters or other important affairs intruding on the city's ability or will to actively try to pacify Cisra. At this moment however, Hathisna was presented with a rare opportunity where Veii was both politically stable and lacking in foreign threats. He was not one to waste an opportunity to further increase Veientine power in Tyrrhenia, and so in 391 (385 BCE), war was declared.
Hathisna aimed to gain control of Lake Bracciano[1] and its surrounding fertile plains. In this he was joined by Tarchnal, in the hopes they could regain the metal rich Tolfa Mt. Tarchnal was far past its prime however, and events early in the conflict would go poorly for them. A force of 5,000 Cisratan hoplites defeated an equally large Tarchal army near Castellina before they could take the important Cistratan port. Tarchnal immediately sued for peace, and with one rival knocked out, Cisra turned to face Hathisna and Veii.
The Veientine army also consisted of 5,000 hoplites, but was bolstered by a further 500 Celtic mercenaries, drifters from Brennus' band who broke off and entered Veientine service. This would prove to be a decisive trump card in the coming battle on the plains between the Arrone and Vaccina rivers. Both sides, fully body armor and helmet glistening in the sunlight, approached in a methodical formation. On the flanks, small detachments hippeis (Cavalry) protect the flanks of the rigid phalanx formations. War hymns were sung as the nervous soldiers drew closer, in order to calm them. This was especially needed for those on the Cisratan left flank, for the terrifying war cries of the 500 Celtic warriors placed opposite them pierced the air.
The two armies engaged, the front ranks jabbing their overhand spears forward while they hid behind their shields. The back ranks pushed with all their might against those in the front, creating a pushing match on both sides, each trying to drive the enemy phalanx back. Yet the decisive part of the battle came not with the phalanx engagement but with the Celtic charge on the Cisratan left flank. The fluid and maneuverable Celts easily swarmed around the flanks of the rigid Cisratan hoplite formation, quickly enveloping it. An attempt by the small detachment of Cisratan cavalry to prevent this was unsuccessful and subject to a counter charge by the horsemen of Veii. This rapidly led to a collapse of the left flank, followed by the rest of the Cisratan army. A rout ensued, but unlike in the mass slaughter seen in Celtic victories, many were allowed to surrender.
A victory trophy was erected on the site of the battle, and Hathisna led his army to Cisra to pressure the city into accepting peace terms. The Cisratans agreed to recognize the land around Lake Bracciano as belonging to Veii and a modest annual tribute was stipulated for 10 years. This was not as hard for Cisra to accept as it may seem, for the city gained most of its wealth from the sea, and the tribute was only a small burden on the Cisratan treasury. Yet their reputation and pride was damaged, and Cisra began to place less faith I their land army.
Rather, they increasingly turned to the sea. Cisra was always a great maritime power and this took only a subtle shift in policy to focus almost exclusively on their maritime activities. This pivot towards the sea was furthered with the sacking of their main port of Pyrgi in 392(384bce) by the Syracusan tyrant Dionysius. The raid on the port town had awoken the Cisratans to an unfortunate flaw in their policy. Any land power could successfully cut off and starve Cisra by occupying their three ports, Punicum, Pyrgi, and Castellina. This was their lifeline to the sea, and access to these ports was imperative for their survival. The leading oligarchs of Cisra led by Sethri Alethnas, came up with a practical if daunting solution to the problem.
Alethnas referenced the example of Athenai, who built long walls to Piraeus in order to prevent any land army from cutting off their lifeline to the outside world in the event of a siege. He proposed the same by done with Pyrgi, Cisra’s closest and most valuable port. No doubt those in opposition to the monumental task pointed out that Athenai was much closer to Piraeus than Cisra was to Pyrgi. Despite opposition however, the plan was adopted-opponents failed to offer an alternative solution. It would take a large drain on the treasury and years of hard labor, but the project was seen as essential to ensuring Cisra was safe from enemy land armies, especially important in an age where Celtic raids into Tyrrhenia were ever increasing. The walls would take 12 years to complete, but it was 12 years well spent.
[1] Frustratingly, I couldn't find any ancient name for it
Part VII: Veii and Cisra
Temple of Juno, Veii
Velthur Hathisna was not idle following the destruction of Rome. With Veii's main rival for the control of the salt trade at least for the moment eliminated and the Senones more interested in plunder than matters of trade, his city boomed economically. A large temple to Jupiter began construction in 390 (386 BCE). In contrast with the usual Rasna dislike of Attic art and architecture, Hathisna modeled the temple on the Parthenon in Athenai. A commission was sent out to Hellas in search for an architect, and returned with a young Athenian by the name of Amyntas of Athenai.
Amyntas would become the foremost architect and close confidant of Hathisna, who was a true Phil-hellene. Unique among Rasna for his appreciation of the Attic style, he wished to turn his city into a Hellenic won, if not in spirit, then at least in its appearance. The Great Temple of Juno would merely be the first in a series of ambitious architectural projects Amyntas would undertake in the years to come. He enthusiastically set to work almost immediately after arriving at Veii, with an even grander vision than Hathisna had first imagined. Taking his inspiration from the Parthenon, the Temple of Zeus at Olympia, and one of the seven wonders of the world, the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, Amyntas envisioned a temple that was the epitome of everything grand about Hellenic architecture.
The temple would not be dedicated for another 15 years however, and in the interval, Hathisna busied himself in the realm of foreign affairs. The coastal city of Cisra, long a rival of Veii, had to be brought to heel. With more pressing matters always at hand, this had consistently been an afterthought in Veientine foreign policy. If it was not Rome distracting Veii, then it was internal matters or other important affairs intruding on the city's ability or will to actively try to pacify Cisra. At this moment however, Hathisna was presented with a rare opportunity where Veii was both politically stable and lacking in foreign threats. He was not one to waste an opportunity to further increase Veientine power in Tyrrhenia, and so in 391 (385 BCE), war was declared.
Hathisna aimed to gain control of Lake Bracciano[1] and its surrounding fertile plains. In this he was joined by Tarchnal, in the hopes they could regain the metal rich Tolfa Mt. Tarchnal was far past its prime however, and events early in the conflict would go poorly for them. A force of 5,000 Cisratan hoplites defeated an equally large Tarchal army near Castellina before they could take the important Cistratan port. Tarchnal immediately sued for peace, and with one rival knocked out, Cisra turned to face Hathisna and Veii.
The Veientine army also consisted of 5,000 hoplites, but was bolstered by a further 500 Celtic mercenaries, drifters from Brennus' band who broke off and entered Veientine service. This would prove to be a decisive trump card in the coming battle on the plains between the Arrone and Vaccina rivers. Both sides, fully body armor and helmet glistening in the sunlight, approached in a methodical formation. On the flanks, small detachments hippeis (Cavalry) protect the flanks of the rigid phalanx formations. War hymns were sung as the nervous soldiers drew closer, in order to calm them. This was especially needed for those on the Cisratan left flank, for the terrifying war cries of the 500 Celtic warriors placed opposite them pierced the air.
The two armies engaged, the front ranks jabbing their overhand spears forward while they hid behind their shields. The back ranks pushed with all their might against those in the front, creating a pushing match on both sides, each trying to drive the enemy phalanx back. Yet the decisive part of the battle came not with the phalanx engagement but with the Celtic charge on the Cisratan left flank. The fluid and maneuverable Celts easily swarmed around the flanks of the rigid Cisratan hoplite formation, quickly enveloping it. An attempt by the small detachment of Cisratan cavalry to prevent this was unsuccessful and subject to a counter charge by the horsemen of Veii. This rapidly led to a collapse of the left flank, followed by the rest of the Cisratan army. A rout ensued, but unlike in the mass slaughter seen in Celtic victories, many were allowed to surrender.
A victory trophy was erected on the site of the battle, and Hathisna led his army to Cisra to pressure the city into accepting peace terms. The Cisratans agreed to recognize the land around Lake Bracciano as belonging to Veii and a modest annual tribute was stipulated for 10 years. This was not as hard for Cisra to accept as it may seem, for the city gained most of its wealth from the sea, and the tribute was only a small burden on the Cisratan treasury. Yet their reputation and pride was damaged, and Cisra began to place less faith I their land army.
Rather, they increasingly turned to the sea. Cisra was always a great maritime power and this took only a subtle shift in policy to focus almost exclusively on their maritime activities. This pivot towards the sea was furthered with the sacking of their main port of Pyrgi in 392(384bce) by the Syracusan tyrant Dionysius. The raid on the port town had awoken the Cisratans to an unfortunate flaw in their policy. Any land power could successfully cut off and starve Cisra by occupying their three ports, Punicum, Pyrgi, and Castellina. This was their lifeline to the sea, and access to these ports was imperative for their survival. The leading oligarchs of Cisra led by Sethri Alethnas, came up with a practical if daunting solution to the problem.
Alethnas referenced the example of Athenai, who built long walls to Piraeus in order to prevent any land army from cutting off their lifeline to the outside world in the event of a siege. He proposed the same by done with Pyrgi, Cisra’s closest and most valuable port. No doubt those in opposition to the monumental task pointed out that Athenai was much closer to Piraeus than Cisra was to Pyrgi. Despite opposition however, the plan was adopted-opponents failed to offer an alternative solution. It would take a large drain on the treasury and years of hard labor, but the project was seen as essential to ensuring Cisra was safe from enemy land armies, especially important in an age where Celtic raids into Tyrrhenia were ever increasing. The walls would take 12 years to complete, but it was 12 years well spent.
[1] Frustratingly, I couldn't find any ancient name for it
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Hmm... that will be a very long wall for Cisra to defend. I have to wonder if it'll end up being a waste of money, if they don't have enough men to man them.
Velthur Hathisna is an interesting character. He's probably too popular for his already numerous victories over Veii's enemies. But he seems to be clashing with the city's aristocracy at every turn. His Hellenization on top of his earlier reforms could damage his strong position. It'll be interesting to see what he does next.
Velthur Hathisna is an interesting character. He's probably too popular for his already numerous victories over Veii's enemies. But he seems to be clashing with the city's aristocracy at every turn. His Hellenization on top of his earlier reforms could damage his strong position. It'll be interesting to see what he does next.
And if he decides to elect one of his more able relatives to eventually succeed him, continuing the Veientine Principate. Should he be 65 in 390 or 55?
It's definitely a gamble. The Lon walls of Athens were far easier to defend, a calculation that may not be fully apparent to Cisra. Though for he moment atleast the celts aren't particularly good at siege warfare and none of the Etruscan cities are very powerful so that might not be a major problem for the near future.
As for Hathisna, you have the right idea about the situation. He's too popular and successful to be challenged, but the aristocracy is seething with discontent. It's interesting that attic art and architecture never caught on in Etruria , because all previous forms of Greek art were wildly popular there.
In my notes he was 35 when he became tyrant, so he would be exactly 57 by 384 bce.
Okay, so I just edited all my Greek and changed it from the Latin to the actual Greek. So Greece is Hellas, Athens is Athenai, Greek is Hellenic, etc.
I like your updates.
But no cavalry on both sides? That seems to be unusual. Aristocracy and rich citizens were usually obliged to serve as horsemen.
That's actually something I forgot about
. I don't believe cavalry played a major role in Greek warfare at the time (aside from with the Thessalians and a little later, the Tarentines) though they would likely be present. I'm not too familiar if they would usually fight on foot rather than on a horse though. Still, you are right, that was an omission on my part. I'll amend the update to account for a small cavalry force on each side.
So let's just say I had a lot of free time today and made a map. If it isn't obvious, I based the Gallic tribes off of a map by Errgne, which was the most detailed I could find of the area.
The territory encircling Clevsin is Clevsin territory, Felathri, Felathri territory.
The territory encircling Clevsin is Clevsin territory, Felathri, Felathri territory.
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Excellent map! Would it be ungrateful of me if I ask that you add the polities in Sicily too?
That's actually something I forgot about
Still, you are right, that was an omission on my part. I'll amend the update to account for a small cavalry force on each side.
The horsemen fought on a horse. That was the point. Usually they were javelin throwers.
Just imagine 50 horsemen circling around the right flank of your phalanx taking part in this battle of yours, the side which was not protected by a shield. They throw one javelin each and then they come from behind your phalanx and see mostly unprotected backs and back of the heads. Usually that would be enough to arouse disturbance among the infantry. If that was not enough the cavalrymen had two-three javelins left to throw carefully aiming. That would greatly influence the outcome of the battle.
That was why cities spent good money on good warhorses.
And one more thing - there had to be some infantry missile troops on both sides - javelin throwers and slingers mostly. Maybe some archers, but not necessarily. They would start the fight at a distance showering each other with stones and lead bullets and after that they would concentrate on the flanks of the phalanx and they would keep an eye on the rear as well.
Samnite soldiers from a tomb frieze in Nola 4th century BC
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Excellent map! Would it be ungrateful of me if I ask that you add the polities in Sicily too?
Not at all. I was planning on adding onto the map, I just ran out of time last night. Though if I may ask-does the territory controlled by the southern greek city states seem fine, or too little for the time?
The horsemen fought on a horse. That was the point. Usually they were javelin throwers.
Just imagine 50 horsemen circling around the right flank of your phalanx taking part in this battle of yours, the side which was not protected by a shield. They throw one javelin each and then they come from behind your phalanx and see mostly unprotected backs and back of the heads. Usually that would be enough to arouse disturbance among the infantry. If that was not enough the cavalrymen had two-three javelins left to throw carefully aiming. That would greatly influence the outcome of the battle.
That was why cities spent good money on good warhorses.
And one more thing - there had to be some infantry missile troops on both sides - javelin throwers and slingers mostly. Maybe some archers, but not necessarily. They would start the fight at a distance showering each other with stones and lead bullets and after that they would concentrate on the flanks of the phalanx and they would keep an eye on the rear as well.
Samnite soldiers from a tomb frieze in Nola 4th century BC
Gracias. The info is very informative; much appreciated. I'll be sure to use it in future updates.
I think it's fine. From what I know of, none of them ever expanded to hold great swathes of territory in Italy, just the immediate area most of the time.
Okay, so new map. I added in Sicily and made some changes in Italy to more accurately reflect the situation. I am not sure who controlled Selinus at this point, so I may be wrong on the map in that regard. Edit: a slight correction: Paestum should be controlled by the Lucanians.
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