At least the pliable sort of idiot is quite favored by those who desire a puppet monarch though, so idiocy is not a sure disqualifier even in a cutthroat system.
The eagle's left head
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
So is born the Empire of Sicily and Hellas (Basileia Sicilia and Hellas?)!
I wonder now how far Alexandros will go? Will he send out an expeditionary force against Adrianople, and isolate Constatinople in an Ottoman-esque campaign before the Ottomans do? Or will we see them snatch Constantinople as Murad (I think Murad is the sultan now?) Snatches the rest of Thrace?
Also, the question of Constantinople is going to come much sooner now... I know Athens and Syracuse are the two main fortified cities of the Empire and no civil wars have turned out, but when Constantinople is brought in as well? That is three major Fortified centers that need to have absolute loyalty to Alexandros II and his descendents... Makes most sense to me to take a Nicaean style to this and initiate a traveling court, spending a third of a year in each Major Fortified City (Syr, Ath, Con) and set up three commands of Katepanoi (Magna Gracia, Hellas, Thrace)? That would also necessitate a most up to date Navy forever though as each of them are coastal cities... and Venice is perched right in the Aegean so perhaps waiting til they are dealt with?
Regarding the colonization period, as I know @Lascaris likes to mimic history as much as possible, and the Lascarid State is currently a Mediterranean Power, we will most likely see their colonization (if Lascaris chooses to write that far into the future) mimic Austria-Hungary, Prussia or the Ottomans as in perhaps a crown colony in West Africa for Prestige.
Though I do wonder if the mercantile nature of The Lascarid State will lead to a more heavily invested interest in pushing the red Sea trade into Indian Spice trade? (Unfamiliar with economic history, kinda basing myself off of B444's AoM alt-hist here...). Perhaps we'll see the Lascarid State establish a proto-Suez Canal here? A war for economic conquest per say once the Balkans are Fortified and control cemented?
My two cents on Asia Minor reconquest are that it will be impossible except for Bithynia and Ionia to be frank... I see a stronger establishment South of the Danube and South of Rome in Italy... Perhaps Merchant colonies along the Black Sea and Levant? I just feel that the added front that is Italy, and the Danube and Turks is just too much for them to handle, a colonial venture seems to much...
Though I do wonder if the mercantile nature of The Lascarid State will lead to a more heavily invested interest in pushing the red Sea trade into Indian Spice trade? (Unfamiliar with economic history, kinda basing myself off of B444's AoM alt-hist here...). Perhaps we'll see the Lascarid State establish a proto-Suez Canal here? A war for economic conquest per say once the Balkans are Fortified and control cemented?
My two cents on Asia Minor reconquest are that it will be impossible except for Bithynia and Ionia to be frank... I see a stronger establishment South of the Danube and South of Rome in Italy... Perhaps Merchant colonies along the Black Sea and Levant? I just feel that the added front that is Italy, and the Danube and Turks is just too much for them to handle, a colonial venture seems to much...
I feel like the reconquest of Anatolia will be a necessity as the Turkish Beyliks were Ghazi States, so Bithynia and Ionia will never truly be secure until the Turks are crushed and the reconquest of Anatolia would give the Lascarid's a much shorter (and easier to defend) border than just retaking Bithynia and Ionia would
Let me note that though this might be a minor detail yet, the Lascarid possession of Phokaia means that they now have a foothold, small as it is, in mainland Asia Minor. And it also mean the Despotate now has a direct land border with the Turks, though we are only speaking of the Sarukhanids for now.
Well, it either could be considered as an enclave or indeed as a foothold in Anatolia, that even if a smaller scale, it may have a greater symbolic importance, as that the Lascaris/Vatastez, are, after so much time, back in Anatolia...
I can see the LD demanding a yearly tribute from some of the states on the coast like Roger II did, no conquest of North Africa though
Well, if the LD gets back Creta from Venice it will get to know the venetian plantation system and monocultures, which were a bit of an influence on early spanish colonication developments(Greece-Aragon-Spain). Spain complete ignored several parts of the Americas pretty quickly, so I wouldn´t be surprised if the LD, after having sent some of their ships into the Western Hemisphere to explore and deciding that the Lesser Antilles are right up their alley, Small Islands, perfect for plantation...the New Cyclades are born!
Asia Minor: well, until the beyliks remain small enough, the LD might at their southwest corner, driving the turks away. If Tamerlan dishes out a similar defeat against the Osmans, there might be time to eliminate them
I'd not say this is necessarily a problem. Theodore I Lascarid did not have a male heir either, so he married his daughter to Ioannis Vatatzes, his successor and Alexandros II's great grandfather.
The real problem, in typical Byzantine fashion, is more about too many heirs I think. The Byzantines did not have clear cut succession laws, nothing written in the stone like primogeniture in the West. Though even primogeniture had its own problems, ask France and England about it.
So far, the Vatatzes-Lascarid successions in the Despotate have been rather smooth because the potential heir was already q grown adult, Ioannis was 36 when he succeeded his father, Alexandros the younger was 28. And Ioannis had a loyal brother in Theodore.
Now, what happens with many princesses around, given that in Byzantine tradition, they often proved ambitious women. And many male heirs perhaps? You just have to see what happened everytime the prospective heir was a minor on his father's death and all the turmoil that happened around regencies.
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
taking a page from Stefan Dusan who took a page from Simeon Dulo/Krum 🤣
@X Oristos , there has been much said already about the potential of the Despotate's textile industry, but now that the Lascarids control the alum mines of Phokaia, what share do they control of the alum mining in Europe? And how far or how close are they to a position of quasi monopoly on that resource (the deposits in the papal state were not discovered until a century later right? ) ? And if so, how does that affect the position of the Lascarid textiles industry on European markets, especially if one considers the potential of an alt, Sicilian version, of the Merino breed?
How would the Lascarid textiles then compare to the Flemish textiles industry, and how would they compete?
How would the Lascarid textiles then compare to the Flemish textiles industry, and how would they compete?
That's a very good question. Phocaea and Lesvos produce a lot of alum and an important secondary source is Sicily. That's a lot of income, but major alum mines were widespread so while I expect them to the be most important producer and influence commodity prices to a degree, they cannot hope to establish a near monopoly.
If memory serves right, in inland Anatolia there is a number of alum mines, Kutahya comes to mind that had major reserves. I think alum was also exported through Trebizond, presumably mined in the Armenian Highlands. Egypt was another source of alum, although by the mid-14th century the known reserves were close to exhaustion or exhausted.
Considering the traditional lascarid protectionism, I think that where the Empire would excel would be in silk textiles. Gradually there was an exodus of wilk weavers from Lucca and considering the open policy of Alexandros towards high value workers (e.g. Jews), I expect some of them to land in Messina. Calabria was an important silk textile production even after the mismanagement of Joanna and Co., so I expect the synergies between Calabria, Val Demone, Peloponnese and Boeotia would significantly enhance the silk industry.
There is no reason for the well-managed realm of Alexandros not to have a thriving cotton industry. Sicily is after all, the major producer of low quality cotton in the Mediterranean. Greek cotton quality seems to have been a bit better and the Lascarids can obtain high-quality cotton from the Mamluks.
But how the textile industry would compare to the Flemish one? I would say that Flanders will produce better quality woolens and these luxury woolens will be in much greater quantities. Without an alt-Merino breed, Sicily will depend on importing small-ish quantities of high-quality english wool, at least when compared to Flanders. Of course, the low quality woolens that the peasants wore, these would be locally produced. Having said that, it seems with an increased access to cheap alum, it makes sense for Alexandros to continue Charles d'Anjou's policy of improving the local flocks.
By the way, in ITL 1356 a certain Ioannis Livadarios seized the town of Ainos and continued to rule it was acquired by Gattilusio in the early 1380s. Livadarios seems to have gained control from the local lord, our oold friend Nicephoros Orsini, who held the city as appanage after having lost the Despotate of Epirus. Since Livadarios (who used to be an Orsini official) held the city foe decades, he seems to have been accepted as a ruler, with the city looking for a strongman to protect it from the Ottomans. Alexandros would be seen as a much more potent protector than Livadarios. Ainos is an important town, with extensive salt pans and some of the best fishing grounds in the Aegean. Ainos alone provided a similar income to Thasos, Samothrace, Lemnos and Imbros combined. More importantly, the city controlled the Evros river delta and would allow the Catepan to project power inland (Evros was navigable up to Didymoteicho or even Adrianople).
Most likely Nikephoros left him behind when he went off to try reclaiming Epirus. Which I note he has not done TTL since Dusan is still around and kicking.
My question leaned more on long term prospects, that is once the Lascarids have developed a Sicilian Merino breed and on the synergy that derives from the Lascarid empire having an important domestic production of alum, which means a huge competitive advantage, both by reduced cost of import alum and by priority to Lascarid textile manufacturers for purchase.
Also, it was my understanding that the loss of Phokaia alum mines to the Ottoman Turks had a huge impact on European textile sector, so much so than the discovery and exploitation of important alum deposits in the papal states had become a key asset for the Pope. I wondered what would be if the Lascarids did cause the same situation as the Ottomans did, especially if with aggressive trade policies and control of the shipping lanes, they captate Egypt's and Trebizond's alum exports.
the papal alum deposits were discovered in 1462 by Giovanni di Castro near the Tolfa mountains, then we have the metalliferous hills in the surroundings of Volterra, which benefited the Florentine industries ( in particular after the Medici obtained control over the extraction of papal alum, allowing them to have a near-total monopoly on the industry ), now in this scenario with the historic Genoese maones falling into the hands of the Lascarides, it is probable that Florence is even more relevant in the textile sector than Otl, especially if the Genoese ousted by the Syracusans put themselves at the service of the city, it is probable that these deposits will be discovered slightly early ( due to quickly finding an alternative in Syracuse )