The Eagle of the East, Rhomania: An Eastern Roman Timeline (1196 - 1245)

Should the Austrian Empire exist, and continue to exist? If so, in what form?

  • No

    Votes: 6 13.6%

  • Yes, with fair sized territory, but not too massive (has coastline of Slovenia and Croatia)

    Votes: 15 34.1%

  • Yes, but including all its territories but Hungary.

    Votes: 2 4.5%

  • Yes, but including everything it historically held.

    Votes: 3 6.8%

  • Yes, but shrink over time until it houses viable core borders (no coastline)

    Votes: 5 11.4%

  • Yes, but shrink over time until it houses viable core borders (has coastline)

    Votes: 13 29.5%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
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Theodorecorvin

Going to be interesting on how the differences in the new TL will make. An example that the chances of crusades even happening at all in the new TL if wanted to or be more successful with Byzantine regaining Antioch in the first crusade.
 
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Elfwine

Averious said:
And how would you suggest that is handled? Alexios himself managed to obtain control due to just the right amount of factors pressing forwards in his favour; Constantinople lacked the right amount of defenders, Nikephoros III Botaneiates' letter of abdication which detailed Nikephoros Melissenos should be his succesor being intercepted by George Palaiologos who in turn used it to convince others to back Alexios himself--and then, due to the previous things, Alexios was able to take and then sack Constantinople himself and then become Emperor fully after that pesky 40 day sack-cloth repentence.
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Well, if you're doing a fictional figure as becoming emperor, you might have something like:

Nicephorus Botaneiates doesn't trust/believe in Melissenos as much as OTL, so he writes a different letter. How that letter goes may favor that person more than the Komnenoi - perhaps there's an existing connection between them and Alexius so that the Komnenoi and Alexius's supporters) and George Palaiologos back them instead of Alexius, and we see them slip into Constantinople (no reason the "bribe the German mercenaries" can only work for the historical contender if necessary) in a way comparable to OTL Alexius I.

I'm not overly familiar with this period, so this is just a general idea - it depends on what kind of figure you want to insert and what role they've taken.

Maybe they're even the one Nicephorus III names (thus taking Melissenos's place as far as significance), and when they take the throne they make Alexius Caesar. How that goes or how long that lasts - well, that's more your call.
 
Averious

Averious

Elfwine said:
Well, if you're doing a fictional figure as becoming emperor, you might have something like:

Nicephorus Botaneiates doesn't trust/believe in Melissenos as much as OTL, so he writes a different letter. How that letter goes may favor that person more than the Komnenoi - perhaps there's an existing connection between them and Alexius so that the Komnenoi and Alexius's supporters) and George Palaiologos back them instead of Alexius, and we see them slip into Constantinople (no reason the "bribe the German mercenaries" can only work for the historical contender if necessary) in a way comparable to OTL Alexius I.

I'm not overly familiar with this period, so this is just a general idea - it depends on what kind of figure you want to insert and what role they've taken.

Maybe they're even the one Nicephorus III names (thus taking Melissenos's place as far as significance), and when they take the throne they make Alexius Caesar. How that goes or how long that lasts - well, that's more your call.
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The thing to note with this time period is that it's when what we consider the 'direct line' of Rome is officially killed off. Alexios starts off inexperienced and unready to handle the duties of Emperor--and while his hardships against the Normans and Pechenegs turns him into the great Emperor he later becomes in the process he inadvertently destroys the last 'core' native Troops--the great Cavalry Tagmata--that had direct lines back to the times of the Full Empire through his losses to the Normans.

Your idea works well, and I'll likely be using it--although I'll be using the name Artemios (for Saint Artemios the Great Martyr) instead of a Nikephoros. The big thing about Artemios is that while he was struggle and fail as Alexios did, the manner in which he does is different--and the result will be the survival of these military units which in turn will not force him, as Alexios was forced, to entirely rebuild the army from the ground up.

It'll have a direct affect on the First Crusade--because it will happen, just to keep things coherent--and it's inherent outcome. But it in no way is going to be some sort of wank where the Empire suddenly reclaims all of Anatolia, lol.
 

Elfwine

Sounds like something intriguing. I'm not entirely sure how much to treat the surviving tagmata regiments having "direct lines back to the times of the Full Empire" as a big deal in itself in the long run (units coming and going is a thing for the course of centuries), but it should shape the 1090s considerably if "rebuild some kind of army somehow" is much less pressing than it was for OTL, with wherever that goes on reconquests and the First Crusade.

Are you planning on the same participants as OTL on that crusade? Just thinking the Normans seem like they're going to be matter in terms of alternate developments - assuming leaders like Bohemond aren't dead.
 

mrcubfan415

Averious said:
Either way; I have to rip the bandaid off and say that I'm no longer going to be advancing this TL, which I'm sorry for considering it's right before we get into the good parts.
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It’s ok. You can always come back to it later if you change your mind. Meanwhile, I’ll be sure to follow your new TL :)
 
Averious

Averious

Elfwine said:
Sounds like something intriguing. I'm not entirely sure how much to treat the surviving tagmata regiments having "direct lines back to the times of the Full Empire" as a big deal in itself in the long run (units coming and going is a thing for the course of centuries), but it should shape the 1090s considerably if "rebuild some kind of army somehow" is much less pressing than it was for OTL, with wherever that goes on reconquests and the First Crusade.

Are you planning on the same participants as OTL on that crusade? Just thinking the Normans seem like they're going to be matter in terms of alternate developments - assuming leaders like Bohemond aren't dead.
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It’s more the functionalities of the matter. Alexios’ blunder resulted in the destruction of both the Tagmata units and huge chunks of the Varangians; he had to cobble together an army—which is why he appealed to the West for mercenaries—which the Papacy jumped on; inadvertently leading to the Crusades.

Similar beats to OTL will occur; but I’ll need to plan it all out.
 
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