The Desert Sands- an alternate history from the 7th century AD

[Cuāuhtemōc]

This is probably Zoroastrianism's nadir. Can't see it recover past this.

 

[TheSlovakPatriot]

You must remember that in the real history of the Mongols embraced Islam very slowly (Only during Uzbek Khan), but it always is tolerant of other people's beliefs.

Not sure that the Gothic language will survive to the present day, but at least, would have plenty of sources.

Well nobody said that Mongols converted to any religion yet...but they will, most probably, embrace Nestorianism. (Ilkhanate, Chagatai and also Golden Horde most probably)

 

[TheSlovakPatriot]

This is probably Zoroastrianism's nadir. Can't see it recover past this.

Zoroastrianism will be restricted to the southern shore of the Caspian Sea, Fars, Yazd and Kermania (possibly also Bactria, Lorestan and Balochistan).

 

[WotanArgead]

I feel sorry for the Indians, given the Seljuk and Timurid they again have it all on a new place. And I'm not sure in their tolerance to some features of Indian culture.

 

[TheSlovakPatriot]

The Rhomaic census of 1292 AD (7800 Rhomaic Creation calendar) was carried throughout the empire, and was (although not perfect) one of the best sources about demographics of the empire from that period. The bureaucrats and officials were mostly charged to the population count, mostly travelling across the country and asking local nobles, mayors, village chiefs or priests about the population of the individual villages, (the population was divided into three age groups- children, adults and elderly people as well as distinction between men and women). The most cited and most often used were the ethnic data (which did not involve speaking of each individual, rather a report by the bureaucrat was written about each village, roughly like this:

• Diocese
• Theme (district)
• Name of locality
• predominant language
• population (Total)
  • children
    • boys
    • girls
  • adults
    • men
    • women
  • elderly
    • men
    • women
• priests
• nobles
• primary economic activity)

The figures show us the ethnic structure of the empire by diocese:

1. Constantinople 480 000 people (the city itself 450 000) - 400 000 Greeks,60 000 Latins, 8000 Varangians, 6 000 Slavs, 2000 Armenians, 1000 Copts, 1000 Jews, 1000 Syrians and 1000 Turkics
2. Thrakia 1 200 000 people (Adrianople 110 000) - 1 140 000 Greeks, 40 000 Vlachs, 8 000 Turkics, 6 000 Slavs, 3 000 Jews, 2 000 Armenians and 1 000 Syrians.
3. Macedonia 2 230 000 people (Thessalonica 210 000) -1 130 000 Greeks, 850 000 Vlachs, 115 000 Jews, 114 000 Slavs,11 000Albanians and 10 000 Egyptians.
4. Morea 820 000 people (Mistra 15 000/ Corinth 19 000) - 782 000 Greeks, 30 000 Albanians, 4 000 Slavs and 2 000 Vlachs.
5. Epeiros 490 000 people (Dirrhacium 45 000) -200 000 Vlachs, 140 000 Greeks, 125 000 Albanians and 25 000 Latins/Italians.
6. Archipelagos 570 000 people (Gortyna 26 000)-530 000 Greeks, 21 000 Latins, 10 000 Copts, 5 000 Armenians and 4 000 Jews.
7. Dacia 310 000 people (Naissus 34 000)- 170 000 Vlachs, 135 000 Slavs and 5 000 Greeks.
8. Paristrion 410 000 people (Dulostorum 29 000) - 245 000 Vlachs, 70 000 Slavs, 65 000 Greeks and 30 000 Turkics.
9. Bithynia 1 980 000 people (Nicomedia 190 000) - 1 940 000 Greeks,20 000 Slavs, 7000 Syrians, 5000 Armenians, 2000 Jews, 2000 Varangians, 1000 Copts, 1000 Latins, and 1000 Tukics
10. Asiana 2 450 000 people (Ephesus 94 000) - 2 410 000 Greeks, 20 000 Syrians, 12 000 Anatolians and 8 000 Jews
11. Anatolikia 1 320 000 people (Iconium 72 000 people) -860 000 Greeks, 420 000 Anatolians, 25 000 Armenians, 10 000 Slavs and 5000 Turkics.
12. Pontus 750 000 people (Trebizond 85 000) -460 000 Greeks, 230 000 Lazics, 60 000 Armenians
13. Cappadocia 810 000 people (Ceasarea 46 000)- 380 000 Greeks, 250 000 Armenians, 130 000 Anatolians, 20 000 Lazics, 20 000 Syrians and 10 000 Turkics.
14. Taurica 210 000 people(Chersonesos 32 000) -110 000 Greeks,30 000 Varangians, 25 000 Slavs, 20 000 Jews, 15 000 Latins and 10 000 Turkics.
15. Cyprus 220 000 people(Ammochostos 25 000) - 150 000 Greeks, 35 000 Syrians, 20 000 Armenians, 15 000 Latins
16. Augustamnica 980 000 (East Lower Egypt; capital: Pelusium 95 000) -698 000 Copts, 88 000 Jews, 82 000Arabs, 24 000 Turkics, 22 000 Greeks, 10 000 Latins, 4 000 Syrians and 2000 Armenians
17. Aegyptus (west Lower Egypt) 2 650 000 (Alexandria: 365 000) - 1 875 000 Copts, 420 000 Greeks,102 000 Turkics, 93 000 Jews, 85 000 Arabs, 21 000 Latins, 15 000 Armenians, 15 000 Lazics, 11 000 Syrians, 8 000 Lybians, and 5000 Varangians.
18. Lybia 620 000 (Cyrene 42 000) - 448 000 Greeks, 108 000 Libians, 34 000 Arabs and 30 000 Copts.
19. Calabria 695 000 people (Rhegium 58 000) - 540 000 Greeks, 130 000 Latins, 25 000 Jews.
20. Lucania 285 000 people (Tursikon 14 000) -265 000 Latins, 16 000 Greeks, 4 000 Jews.
21. Apulia 984 000 people (Bari 36 000) - 508 000 Greek, 460 000 Latins, 14 000 Albanians and 2000 Jews
22. Campania 1 130 000 people (Salerno 82 000) - 931 000 Latins,180 000 Greeks, 110 000 Varangians, 9 000 Jews.

In total the empire has a population of some 21 644 000 people, of whom:

1. Greeks (12 106 000 - 57%)
2. Copts ( 2 625 000 - 12%)
3. Latins (1 854 000 - 9%) - this groups up mostly Italians, and all West Romance and Southern Romance speakers
   
4. Vlachs (1 507 000 -7%) - Eastern Romance speakers
   
5. Anatolians (562 000 - 3%)
   
6. Jews (424 000-2%)
7. Slavs (390 000- 2%)
8. Armenians (386 000 -2%)
9. Lazics (315 000 -1%)
10. Arabs (201 000-1%)
    
11. Turkics (191 000-1%)
12. Albanians (180 000-1%)
13. Varangians (155 000-1%) - all Germanic peoples - Goths, English, Varangian guard, Longobards in Italy
    
14. Lybians (116 000-1%)
15. Syrians (99 000-0%)

Politically, one of the largest surprises was the relativelly large "Anatolian" population, which was to be quickly "integrated".Also, Syrians were relativelly few, but this is because most of Syria and Levant was not directly administerred by the Empire. Politically the census results strengthenned the power of the Vlachs and Latins, as well as of the Copts.

 

[Dion]

I see that the author of the thread containing the following maps (TheSlovakPatriot) has been banned. Is there any way to know what is the original source of these maps and the information behind them? Is this serious scientific work or something that someone invented because he likes the reality to be this way? Cheers.

languages750-jpg.276360

religion-png.276287

African Romance spoken around Carthage is called Ifriqian in this timeline and has (or is supposed to have) a large Punic substratum. On the other hand, Moritanian has a Berber substratum.


Part 12: The heart of Asia , along the Great Silk Road
What was going on in Central Asia? Well after the fall of Sassanid Persia and the Hephtalites (who ruled Central Asia until 670s), various small principalities emerged at the southern coast of the Caspian Sea. The Karen dynasty assumed control of the the former satrapy of Dihistan and Margiana (Merv), but also Abarshahr and Khorasan., while most of southeastern Iran remained ruled by the Mihran dynasty.
Central Asia was divided into two realms, Bactria/Tokharistan at the upper Oxus Basin (Tajikistan and adjacent areas of Afghanistan) and Sogdia (central Uzbekistan).
Sistan was also governed by the Mihran dynasty, while Afghanistan was balkanised.

Transoxiana was increasingly Turkified, with a Sogdian and Bactrian languages surviving. Farghana was a major urban center by this time.The Bactrian and Sogdian languages have reached a high literal standard. These areas are cosmopolitan with merchants bringing new ideas, with people and ideas originating from China to Rhomania. The area does not have a strong religious identity, but Bactria is more Zoroastrian-Manichean while Sogdia is more Nestorian-Buddhist but still with substantial Manichean influence.

Central Asia is now becoming the last hotbed for Manicheism. (However I am uncertain of the long term viability of a Manichean-based society since Manicheism believes that sexuality and earthly goods are bad, hence slow population growth implying the realm could get easier overwhelmed by more dynamic tribes)

The area around Kabul was ruled by the so-called Kabul Shahis - Turkic dynasty of Hindu religion, while the south was ruled by the Zunbil dynasty.

The primary religion in the Tarim Basin and and and Bactria remained Manicheism, while Sogdia was Zoroastrian. Afghanistan wand Pakistan were in the Hindu sphere. The Church of the east had some successes in converting the Turkic peoples, but Central Asia remained until 900s a mishmash of Nestorianism, Manicheism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Tengrism.

The Mihran dynasty, controlling the eastern half of Iran and also Sistan and Balochistan is considered to be the true successor of Sassanid Persia. The atention of the Mihran dynasty in the 7th century is to reclaim the lands of the former Sassanid empire.

So basically a large empire, the Mihranids, and a handful of kingdoms around it. In the following century (8th century) the Mihranids would have consolidated their positions and start reclaiming former Iranian lands to their west and east

Beneath is map taken from CK2. It shows the distribution of religions at the time of Charlemagne.
(roughly)View attachment 276287

S here is a linguistic map from the year 750 AD
View attachment 276360 (edited from The Aprticity forum)

African Romance spoken around Carthage is called Ifriqian in this timeline and has (or is supposed to have) a large Punic substratum. On the other hand, Moritanian has a Berber substratum.