The Day of the Lion: An Italian WW2 TL

Great TL. Excellent work!

Slight quibble with the Italian's success in pulling out of the Balkans. In OTL the Germans were terrified of a second Macedonian front and moved quickly to disarm the Italians and occupy the region in TTL. Infrastructure was also really poor, especially in Albania, so the numbers seem a tad high.

What happens with Italy's colonies in TTL? Do they hang on to Somaliland in TTL (even in OTL, they maintained a mandate post-war)? What about Libya and Eritrea?
 


In una fede, in un valore, in un amore


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The news the Italians had been praying for arrived the following day. After lengthy discussions, disagreements and miscommunications between London, Tunis and Washington the Allies had agreed on an armistice which guaranteed the arrival of Allied troops on the Italian mainland.

The Armistice of Madrid (often derided as the Hoare-Grandi Pact) recognised Caviglia’s regime as a co-belligerent and the legal government of Italy. It would not be the sole authority with Allied regional administrators being granted wide-ranging power over policy; however this was considered a small sacrifice for the regime to receive the legitimacy it had been desperate to gain.

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The sad thing? It's still better than the one in OTL and at least the fleet is still in use and in our possession (even if not releasing the merchant captured is dick move) and ITTL much more people have avoided the fate of being captured by the nazist and used as slave labor.
On pratical level, the italian gold reserve are still on the goverment possession and not stolen by the germans and the same can be said (at least for now) of everything else in Italy...yep we have been robbed blindly by our former ally.
Regarding support against the incoming German offensive, well frankly even the worn out handover given OTL to the Cobelligerant italian forces will be a great help, not much for the Wallies a lot for the italian army and air forces plus having access to some supply in term of resources for the industry will greatly help as during this period the various italian companies had finally started to produce equipment at least comparable to the allied one so there is the possibility that a lot of piece that OTL never have been utilizated or only in few examplar will have a much more eventfull life
In term of manpower there is the question of the italian prisoner in allied hand that OTL were slower to take sides even because there were not a great transparency and communication between Washington and the italian co-belligerant goverment, ITTL things can be smooth and much more men can join the ISU (Italian Service Unit) or rejoin the italian armed forces to defend the homeland
 
Italians who barely a fortnight beforehand had celebrated an end to bombing instead found they were now being bombed by both sides.
What? They are still getting bombed by the allies? Why?

Given the lukewarm Allied commitment, where are the most likely lines of defense? North of Rome, I'd guess, but how far? The Arno roughly could work - IF the Allies make haste with manpower and weaponry. However, the Arno River as the front line assures the destruction of many cultural icons
Not even an unmitigated disaster could make the Germans advance as far as the Arno.
Even after destroying the Alpine Wall, there are like four major rivers that could be used as a defense line before arriving to the Po.
The Wehrmacht isn't in a good shape, they probably would have difficulties moving an army to Firenze even if the didn't have to fight all the way. Here, they have to face an adversary that, while battered, has excellent defensive positions all the while their staging ground is in an occupied land full of partisans.

While the Allies are not sending reinforcements for now they will still use Italians airports to step up strategic bombing against Germany, forcing the Luftwaffe to divert their forces. And surely if the Germans manage to break the Alpine wall the Allies will intervene, if only to ensure that the Nazis didn't regain the northern industrial centers.

A sidebar to the main thrust of this timeline: what is happening with POWs Gen. Sir Richard O'Connor, Gen. Phillip Neame, and Gen Michael Gambier-Parry? OTL, they were involved in a successful escape following the OTL Italian withdrawl from the war.
Without OTL breakdown of command and communication, they probably had been set free by the co-belligerent government and sent back to the allies without the need for an evasion.
Which probably feels a little frustrating for men that have spent the last three months digging an escape tunnel with spoons.

What happens with Italy's colonies in TTL? Do they hang on to Somaliland in TTL (even in OTL, they maintained a mandate post-war)? What about Libya and Eritrea?
My bet is that they manage to keep Libya and something closer than the pre-war border with Yugoslavia.
 
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My bet is that they manage to keep Libya and something closer than the pre-war border with Yugoslavia.
Probably something similar to the Bevin-Sforza agreement, basically a three way trustsheep division of Libya between Italy (Tripolitania), France (Fezzan)and UK (Cirenaica); regarding Jugoslavia, with some luck and support the original Wilson line.
In Italy favor there is the fact that Stalin will probably do as OTL and demand Libya and bases in Italy immediately, thing that will not make the British very happy and Italy having control of his armed forces mean that they can try stop the Jugoslavians to reach Trieste and Istria for first
 
No Dodecanese campaign like OTL's, thankfully. The Germans really needed a victory (anywhere) in the autumn of 1943, and Britain gave them one.

Probably the most avoidable Allied defeat of the entire European war even in the chaos of the Italian collapse it had to have stung.

A sharp twist of plans from OTL by both sides, correct?

Certainly a twist in the outcome for both sides but the plans aren't actually that different from IOTL. The WAllies were divided on whether to move north from Sicily at all with Rome being the maximum extent which even Churchill would privately admit to. One of the factors considered in favour of landing on the mainland was that it would force the Germans to divert resources from the Eastern Front and France. The Germans coversely were unsure about occupying Italy south of Rome until Avalanche when it was realised they could force the Allies into a costly fight there.

Given the lukewarm Allied commitment, where are the most likely lines of defense? North of Rome, I'd guess, but how far? The Arno roughly could work - IF the Allies make haste with manpower and weaponry. However, the Arno River as the front line assures the destruction of many cultural icons

The Arno would make a good natural boundary although the situation is fluid and the immediate defence of Rome is the focus beyond establishing Allied forces in Southern Italy.

Wonder if this will impact post-War Greece at all. Italians occupied most of the country IOTL until the obvious, wonder how a different withdrawal goes.

Although Churchill is still robbed of his Balkan campaign here the control of the Ionian and Dodecanese islands does offer much for opportunity for state building in Greece in preparation for a return to the mainland.

A sidebar to the main thrust of this timeline: what is happening with POWs Gen. Sir Richard O'Connor, Gen. Phillip Neame, and Gen Michael Gambier-Parry? OTL, they were involved in a successful escape following the OTL Italian withdrawl from the war.

Awaiting repatriation as part of the armistice.

Great TL. Excellent work!

Thanks!

Slight quibble with the Italian's success in pulling out of the Balkans. In OTL the Germans were terrified of a second Macedonian front and moved quickly to disarm the Italians and occupy the region in TTL. Infrastructure was also really poor, especially in Albania, so the numbers seem a tad high.

My thinking is with clearer Italian wariness of the Germans and instruction from high command, along with the Germans own surprise, things are able to go a bit more smoothly even if it still is a rout.

What happens with Italy's colonies in TTL? Do they hang on to Somaliland in TTL (even in OTL, they maintained a mandate post-war)? What about Libya and Eritrea?

Remain under British and French control with the armistice with a final decision to be negotiated in the final peace treaty.

In term of manpower there is the question of the italian prisoner in allied hand that OTL were slower to take sides even because there were not a great transparency and communication between Washington and the italian co-belligerant goverment, ITTL things can be smooth and much more men can join the ISU (Italian Service Unit) or rejoin the italian armed forces to defend the homeland

This is something which has puzzled me since I found out about it; the thousands of Italian POWs interned in America who refused to cooperate following the OTL armistice. I'd be curious to see how many did so out of loyalty to Fascism or having family under German occupation.

What? They are still getting bombed by the allies? Why?

Conrath's force in Campania.

Which probably feels a little frustrating for men that have spent the last three months digging an escape tunnel with spoons.

This reminds me of the Ripping Yarns episode "Escape from Stalag Luft 112 B" where a captured British officer is so obsessed with the art of escaping that he locks himself back inside a German prison camp after his captors desert in order to escape from it properly.
 
This reminds me of the Ripping Yarns episode "Escape from Stalag Luft 112 B" where a captured British officer is so obsessed with the art of escaping that he locks himself back inside a German prison camp after his captors desert in order to escape from it properly.
Full episode here.
 
This is something which has puzzled me since I found out about it; the thousands of Italian POWs interned in America who refused to cooperate following the OTL armistice. I'd be curious to see how many did so out of loyalty to Fascism or having family under German occupation.
Well even that was in great part due of the confusion and ambivalence of the italian armistice and government, many feared that by chosing a side there will be repercussion after the war and not only if the wrong side is chosen but many thought that the current government will have caused legal problem later if they decided to sign with the allied force, it was much later that there were the necessary clarification.
Plus there were a lot of political confusion between fascist remnant, soldiers that think that the Kingdom of the South was not the proper government and a lot of peer pressure; not considering the pragmatic thing that well nobody really worried about the fate of the italian soldiers prisoner of the Wallies they all know that were treated well (hell probably they will have worse if returned home) and a lot of attention instead was focused on the prisoners in URSS as everyone knows that they were in a dire situation. ITTL with things more legally clea, the goverment avoiding the collapse and mantaining continuity, the enourmous need for men plus the incoming invasion of the Germans (that very few liked in general) i expect that things will be smoother and more prisoner will volunteer to return or join the ISU.
 
My thinking is with clearer Italian wariness of the Germans and instruction from high command, along with the Germans own surprise, things are able to go a bit more smoothly even if it still is a rout
Unless theres some hidden divergence I missed, the Germans will not be surprised by the Italian defection, at least in the Balkans. They certainly weren't in OTL. Proposals to rapidly occupy the Italian zones of occupation had been around since late 1942 and the plans had already been drawn up by early 43. Like I mentioned earlier, the OKW was terrified of Macedonian front part deux, even to the point of convincing themselves that an attack was imminent after Husky.

Moreover, in OTL the Germans had no shortage of Italians willing to warn them of the coming betrayal and had people in power who were willing to listen (Like Keitel and Hermann Neubacher). Not sure how that changes substantially here.

Again, not saying that the Italians cant pull more troops out than OTL, plenty of men garrisoning the coast can be evacuated. Anybody inland though is going to be in a similar situation to OTL.

Interestingly enough, there was an Italian detachment in the mountains of Northern Albania which stubbornly fought the Germans for about a month in OTL. I'd imagine that they have better luck in TTL. In fact, if the Italians openly side with the BK, that might be enough to prevent them from siding with the Germans and could lead to a very different fate for the small country.
 
Unless theres some hidden divergence I missed, the Germans will not be surprised by the Italian defection, at least in the Balkans. They certainly weren't in OTL. Proposals to rapidly occupy the Italian zones of occupation had been around since late 1942 and the plans had already been drawn up by early 43. Like I mentioned earlier, the OKW was terrified of Macedonian front part deux, even to the point of convincing themselves that an attack was imminent after Husky.
The advantage for the italians ITTL is that they have clear orders to resist the germans from the beginning, this mean that many divisions will neither taken by surprise or be convinced to disarm without resistance by the belief that they will be permitted to return home or that the war for them is over
 
The advantage for the italians ITTL is that they have clear orders to resist the germans from the beginning, this mean that many divisions will neither taken by surprise or be convinced to disarm without resistance by the belief that they will be permitted to return home or that the war for them is over
Though that's certainly better than OTL, the morale for the Italian troops in the Balkans was near non-existent and the Germans had some top-line formations deployed initially. I'm not convinced that TTL's changed enough to create a drastically different result from OTL's in the Balkans.
 
Unless theres some hidden divergence I missed, the Germans will not be surprised by the Italian defection, at least in the Balkans. They certainly weren't in OTL. Proposals to rapidly occupy the Italian zones of occupation had been around since late 1942 and the plans had already been drawn up by early 43.

Proposals and plans yes but little real preparation and no 45 days to do so with, as you say later, plenty of leaked information from the Italian side ITTL. Certainly there will be Italians who will side with the Germans in the Balkans and there is still chaos and confusion but the Italian forces loyal to Rome are still in a better (less worse) position overall.

Like I mentioned earlier, the OKW was terrified of Macedonian front part deux, even to the point of convincing themselves that an attack was imminent after Husky.

Minor quibble here, I'm not sure if OKW was terrified of a Macedonian front or if it was just the cul-de-sac Allied intelligence had led them down. Certainly there was a focus on the necessity of resources like Bauxite from Greece but my understanding is keeping heavier units there after Husky had started was more in case it turned out to be a feint.

Interestingly enough, there was an Italian detachment in the mountains of Northern Albania which stubbornly fought the Germans for about a month in OTL. I'd imagine that they have better luck in TTL. In fact, if the Italians openly side with the BK, that might be enough to prevent them from siding with the Germans and could lead to a very different fate for the small country.

Most Italian troops defected to the LANC in OTL and the logistics of being stranded will often mean Italian soldiers are going to join whichever partisan band is nearest regardless of ideology. I can't see the Italians openly favouring the BK whose own irredentism will only cause hostility from the Greek and Yugoslav governments-in-exile, Rome hasn't much political capital and can't afford to squander it.
 
So we are in the middle of July 1943 and the situation by now greatly diverge OTL

- Italy: unlike OTL the nazist had not been capable to take control of the nation and install the puppet regime of the RSI, worse in the attempt they have lost a paratroopers division and the entire force that succesfully retreated from Sicily, the allied forces had took possesion of the southern air field and started their bombardment operation in the balkans.
In general ITTL Germany had lost an enourmous quantity of captured material and hundred of thousands of prisoners for hard labor, making their situation even worse in the medium term
Benny for now is still under arrest and will probably be given to the allies to be judged and boy if it will be problematic for the monarchy and a lot of the surviving members of the current government, honestly the possibility that he arrive breathing to the process are slim very slim unless the wallies make it clear that they want him alive and in their custody asap.
- Southern France: semi controlled chaos, the nazist had a much harder fight there and the italians had succesfully escaped behind their defensive line and now their former allies are discovering the pleasure of alpine warfare wasting men in useless assault; worse there is a mini civil war in the zone and the local resistance had gained strenght with the italians that have escaped the nazist captured and whatever weapons they have gained from Regio Esercito. Sure the Werchtmatch will quickly regain control but it also mean waste other men, resources and time.
On the not bright side for both general/politician their plan to revenge for the italian 'stab in the back' had to wait but i very doubt that they will not try something, on the other hand a political infighiting in the Free France leadership can make things take a backseat expecially after the launch of Overlord
Probably at the moment Giraud is wasting time proposing an earlier Dragoon to everyone, burning a lot of political capital and making De Gaulle happy, as Italy for now is fully on wallied side, it's probable that the Free France air force will attempt to launch attack on the mainland from Corsica to both support the resistance and look relevant
- Balkans and Greece: harder fight and greater losses for the germans even there, plus not only the wallied had started earlier their bombardment campaign but more italians soldiers had been capable of joining various resistance bands so life for the nazist will worse than ITTL there

Probable developement
- Hitler is ready to go for a second attempt to at least control north Italy, the plan seem solid, attack the lesser of the italian defensive line with veteran troops and quickly advance eliminitating the tired and demoralizated italian forces. The problem is that while weak the Vallo Alpino Orientale is still a pretty solid line and frankly before the line of the Arno (basically OTL Gothic line) there are plenty of place where Regio Esercito can create further line of arrest to bleed the nazist, plus the italians have good position and trained for this type of warfare and frankly i expect that every aircraft that can be scrapped will be used to give air support and attack/harrass the invading forces that are taking position so it will not easy as Adolf think/hope, expecially with the Soviet continuing to pressing in the east, expecially in the Donbass sector so it will be soon decision time.
- Italy decision and the abysmall failure in their attempt to get control of their former ally will make the Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria goverment much much worried and probably will start to think their own exit strategy.
- There is the question of the italian fleet, Winston other scheme was to send it in the Pacific after the necessary modification and ITTL with Regia Marina not interned at Malta will be more tempted to pressure for that and frankly the italian goverment will agree to score point.
- Greece, if the italians keep more equipment and are more succesfull in escaping plus the British control at least the Ionian and Dodecanese Island mean that ELAS is weaker than OTL and more reliant to allied aid and this mean that can't act too brazen or independent
 

Driftless

Donor
At some point, might the current Italian leadership decide that Benny is a greater liability alive, than dead? Benny either is publicly tried and executed or is assasinated and a plausible backstory is broadcast?
 
Picchiare Sodo

Picchiare Sodo​



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With the Balkans largely cleared of organised Italian resistance by the end of July and the SS Panzer Corps having arrived and been reinforced with new heavy tanks the German offensive against the Eastern Alpine Wall was ready to begin.

On the 3rd of August heavy Luftwaffe attacks began to batter Italian forces preparing defences along the Adige and Piave rivers which lay behind the defensive wall. At the same time small German forces along the Austrian border launched feint attacks against the Brenner and Tarviso passes, preceding the actual assault on the Italian fortifications by the 1st Gebirgsjager Mountain division.

Facing the German mountain troops were elements of the Italian border guard, the Sforzesca and Torino infantry divisions, some ten thousand troops recently repatriated from the Balkans with little more than their rifles and the Julia Alpini division. This was one of the Alpini divisions which had been destroyed on the Eastern Front and was in the midst of being reconstituted. Barely a thousand men of the original division had survived the long retreat from the Caucuses and most were still recovering from various ailments they had incurred on the way home.

The veterans nonetheless had gained many advantages; experience of fighting in the worst conditions with minimal supplies alongside a bitter hatred of Fascism and their erstwhile German allies which had put them through such experiences in the first place. These were assets they had passed on to the greener Alpini units who had arrived to supplement the rebuilding of the division and helped form a physical barrier in between the Alps.

The concrete bunkers of the Eastern Alpine Wall were most numerous among the natural gaps and designed in such a way they could support each other making it difficult for them to be outflanked and bypassing them in any great numbers impossible. The Gebirgsjäger were forced into a bloody, protracted advance which often devolved into hand to hand fighting. By the end of the first day the tanks of the SS Panzer corps were still roaring impatiently awaiting the green light to drive through the mountains.

Nonetheless the situation facing the remaining Alpini was desperate. Now cut-off from supply their positions were running low on ammunition and water. By the afternoon of the 4th of August most remaining fortifications had been neutralised and the Alpine Wall was breached. From Berlin Goebbels’ propaganda machine announced to the world how German soldiers had matched Hannibal’s triumph of crossing the Alps and German newsreels would soon show a seemingly endless column of tanks streaming into Italy. The footage of Alpini holdouts charging tanks with grenades and throwing themselves underneath was edited out.

In Rome the newly recognised Italian regime attempted to keep their citizens calm. Caviglia admitted the Alps had been breached but reassured the Italian people that the Austro-Germans had come this way in the First World War only to meet a bad end. Ambrosio attempted to maintain a cool head despite the head of the Italian Eighth Army, General Italo Gariboldi, practically begging him to move the mechanised corps around Rome north to plug the breach in the line.

Gariboldi was also a Stalingrad veteran and warned Ambrosio that unless the German breakthrough was immediately suppressed the Po Valley would be lost. Ambrosio refused stating fuel was scarce and they were the only force left to react to German threats against the south until the Allies had properly established themselves. In conjuring up the memories of 1918 Caviglia had neglected to inform the Italian their defence was now being left to a force who wouldn’t have looked out of place in the First World War.

By contrast the SS Panzer Corps made great use of their motorisation and close air support to exploit the breakthrough which had been denied to them in Russia the previous month. Dogged but largely static pockets of Italian resistance were bypassed or hammered from the air. By the evening of the 4th they had reached the Piave river where the Central Powers had been halted in1918. Orders for the bridges across the river to be blown following the German breakthrough were largely carried out successfully however German sappers had established pontoon bridges by the following morning.

The Regia Aeronautica flew several sorties in an attempt to destroy these bridges; however their remaining machines were outnumbered and outclassed by the Luftwaffe. Comando Supremo turned to the Anglo-American air forces for help only to receive an apologetic reply. Airfields in southern Italy were still in the process of being established to accommodate American and British aircraft with priority being given to strategic bombers whose targeting was too inexact to be of much use.

Comando Supremo could only inform forces in Northern Italy that vague Allied help was coming soon and to delay and frustrate the German advance for as long as possible behind the Adige and Po rivers. However with the Germans across the Piave, with no reinforcements coming from the south and the Luftwaffe dominant in the skies, a feeling of abandonment began to set in.

The German betrayal and their initial attempts to conquer Italy had evoked a great deal of patriotic fervour which had temporarily overcome the low morale the Italian Army had suffered through 1943 now morale started to crumble once more. Panic came naturally with the sense of abandonment which in turn led to a feeling that now it was every man for himself.


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Proposals and plans yes but little real preparation and no 45 days to do so with, as you say later, plenty of leaked information from the Italian side ITTL. Certainly there will be Italians who will side with the Germans in the Balkans and there is still chaos and confusion but the Italian forces loyal to Rome are still in a better (less worse) position overall.

Wouldn't the preparations start earlier in TTL given the earlier deterioration of the Italian position?

Minor quibble here, I'm not sure if OKW was terrified of a Macedonian front or if it was just the cul-de-sac Allied intelligence had led them down. Certainly there was a focus on the necessity of resources like Bauxite from Greece but my understanding is keeping heavier units there after Husky had started was more in case it turned out to be a feint.

As for the OKWs fear of the Macedonian front, I'd argue that it dated back to their understanding of WWI in the 1920s which overemphasized the importance of the region and birthed the "Quiet Southeast" idea which dominated Nazi policy in the region prior to the war. Also its worth noting that German fortification efforts long preceded Operation Mincemeat and were so intensive that they collapsed the Greek economy in 1941/1942 and were planning to kick the Italians out as early as March 1943.

Most Italian troops defected to the LANC in OTL and the logistics of being stranded will often mean Italian soldiers are going to join whichever partisan band is nearest regardless of ideology. I can't see the Italians openly favouring the BK whose own irredentism will only cause hostility from the Greek and Yugoslav governments-in-exile, Rome hasn't much political capital and can't afford to squander it

Finally, I'd like to point out that though the majority of the Italian troops who defected did join the LANÇ, the were vastly outnumbered by those who deserted or surrendered. Also though the BK did have some irredentist elements... There were more than a few non-irredentists. It was an incredibly broad and amorphous movement. Its main failing IMO was looking too far ahead and not fighting the Germans hard enough at the right time. Given the Italian-Yugoslav rivalry over Albania prior to the war, the attitudes of Italian officers, and the Albanian Communist party's ties to Tito at this point, the BK might be the least worst option. A sudden infusion of Italian men and materiel might be just what it needs to keep its more influential members from collaborating with the Germans
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Italy decision and the abysmall failure in their attempt to get control of their former ally will make the Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria goverment much much worried and probably will start to think their own exit strategy.

Or... Does Italy's greater success than OTL habe the opposite effect? In OTL, their abysmal failure led Romania to over prepare for their eventual coup... When coupled with the idiotic von Killinger in charge that led to disaster for the Germans in OTL. The Germans are arguably going to be more cautious in TTL and the Romanians less cautious given the better situation in Italy. Not a great combination...

Anyways great update @The Red! Looking forward to seeing how the Allies respond!
 
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So it's seem that North Italy is lost, the army on the verge of collapse and the Germans ready to sack Rome if they are not stopped, maybe someone can point to the allied command that their nice new airfield will be much much safer if the Nazist are far far away and that a full military collapse of Italy akin to France will force them to fight for survive in a much much more complicated than send something to the north to at least prop up the italian morale, because frankly the most smart thing to do for the nazist will be to avoid Rome and go directly towards the allied airfield
 
Wouldn't the preparations start earlier in TTL given the earlier deterioration of the Italian position?

Italy's position does begin to deteriorate earlier but also in a much shorter timeframe. Hence the Germans are seeing signs of Italian collapse shortly after the La Spezia mutiny but they only have days (or hours) to prepare rather than over a month.

As for the OKWs fear of the Macedonian front, I'd argue that it dated back to their understanding of WWI in the 1920s which overemphasized the importance of the region and birthed the "Quiet Southeast" idea which dominated Nazi policy in the region prior to the war. Also its worth noting that German fortification efforts long preceded Operation Mincemeat and were so intensive that they collapsed the Greek economy in 1941/1942 and were planning to kick the Italians out as early as March 1943.

Every day's a school day! Would you recommend anything I could have a look at regarding this?

Finally, I'd like to point out that though the majority of the Italian troops who defected did join the LANÇ, the were vastly outnumbered by those who deserted or surrendered. Also though the BK did have some irredentist elements... There were more than a few non-irredentists. It was an incredibly broad and amorphous movement. Its main failing IMO was looking too far ahead and not fighting the Germans hard enough at the right time. Given the Italian-Yugoslav rivalry over Albania prior to the war, the attitudes of Italian officers, and the Albanian Communist party's ties to Tito at this point, the BK might be the least worst option. A sudden infusion of Italian men and materiel might be just what it needs to keep its more influential members from collaborating with the Germans

Could they really be considered too far-sighted when they chose to collaborate at the time when the war was clearly going against the Germans? I know that's easier to say with the benefit of hindsight and even by standards of the time it's difficult to have a clear view of the outlook of the big picture when you're stuck in the hills but surely the fact Germany's main European ally had just collapsed must have counted for something?

Anyways great update @The Red! Looking forward to seeing how the Allies respond!

Thanks!

So it's seem that North Italy is lost, the army on the verge of collapse and the Germans ready to sack Rome if they are not stopped, maybe someone can point to the allied command that their nice new airfield will be much much safer if the Nazist are far far away and that a full military collapse of Italy akin to France will force them to fight for survive in a much much more complicated than send something to the north to at least prop up the italian morale, because frankly the most smart thing to do for the nazist will be to avoid Rome and go directly towards the allied airfield

The main complex the Allies are building is in Foggia within range of existing Allied airfields, there's probably a certain amount of scepticism within Allied planning that the Germans could reach that far but even the Germans were to make it down there they could bring their air power to bear against them beforehand. There definitely will be those arguing that the Italians are a buffer and some sort of assistance should be provided even if its just a gesture to encourage them to keep killing Germans.
 
Will TTL's Italy be able to develop the P40 further than a few prototypes or would they have to rely on lend-lease for their armor?
 
The main complex the Allies are building is in Foggia within range of existing Allied airfields, there's probably a certain amount of scepticism within Allied planning that the Germans could reach that far but even the Germans were to make it down there they could bring their air power to bear against them beforehand. There definitely will be those arguing that the Italians are a buffer and some sort of assistance should be provided even if its just a gesture to encourage them to keep killing Germans.
Well i doubt that the collapse of what remain of the italian army will really fullfill their plan to occupy as much germans as possible as they will also occupied with the mass of italian civilians that will escape the germans forces that will make their work much harder and frankly i doubt that the message: don't worry surrender and you will be completely on your own will encourage the other minor axis power to ask terms. So in general at least some token level of assistance will be probably given if it just some worn out equipment to keep the italian army at some level of fighting level
 
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