The Battle at Dawn: The first battle between the United States and Japan December 7-10, 1941
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This is getting interesting 
Can MacArthur manage to actually NOT have his planes on the ground this time? More importantly, how much more of the limited Japanese fleet train is sent to Pearl, and not available elsewhere. Where do the shoestring logistics get stretched even thinner? And does the loss of a tanker at the wrong time leave the Japanese fleet with insufficient fuel to reach home?
Edit: Good chance that that won't be as important, as some of the fuel-consumers will be on the bottom also.
Can MacArthur manage to actually NOT have his planes on the ground this time? More importantly, how much more of the limited Japanese fleet train is sent to Pearl, and not available elsewhere. Where do the shoestring logistics get stretched even thinner? And does the loss of a tanker at the wrong time leave the Japanese fleet with insufficient fuel to reach home?Edit: Good chance that that won't be as important, as some of the fuel-consumers will be on the bottom also.
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editing error, apparently the forum is a little picky when you cut and paste from the doc I am writing this on to when I paste it
If things last long enough perhaps Tommy Hart in Manila can get reports of the faulty torpedo exploders.Hart was Commanding Officers of the Naval Torpedo Factory in 1925 when the exploder was developed. Hart got In hot water, for wanting live testing of the exploders.He was denied anything more than an old submarine for live testing. He was probably the best man in the Pacific or Far East on this subject.
Driftless
Donor
I wonder... The cast of characters is mostly/completely the same in the Philippines; but at Hawaii both Army and Navy have a very different lineup.This is getting interesting
actually it was a converted artillery shell dropped from a Kate torpedo bomber operating as a high level bomber that penetrated several decks and set a fire that resulted in detonation (there is a 20 second delay from hit to explosion)
The Val Dive Bombers could only carry basically a 500 pound bomb and could not carry the 1,700 pound artillery shells made into bombs
the US Navy has very little to be ashamed of in their fight in the Philippines and Malay Barrier. The US Army on the other hand due to command failures worsened their situation more than necessary but redeemed itself with valor and dogged resistance.
As for the timeline, so far there has not been any events that change the situation in Southeast Asia and Oceania.
It may well be both. More ships lost, more planes and pilots lost, and whole crap load of ammunition used up. Overall Japan will be a strategic loser, but the US may suffer some serious short term losses.
I did that in my last timeline... afraid the US Army is stuck with him for now
I wonder how this will turn out differently for the underdogs! Rooting for them.
*Chews Popcorn*
*Chews Popcorn*
An excellent read so far!
A further bit of information on the air crews of Shokaku and Zuikaku was that their Flight crews were leavened with the bulk of the IJN's flight instructors .... losses among these would have had a very negative impact on the training of further replacements.
The IJN torpedo bombers will have a very rough time with an alerted defence, as they have to approach over a a goodly portion of ships. I wouldn't expect many to survive in the group coming in from the east in particular.
About the only mistake I can see so far is that you have USS Helena sailing with the Lexington/Yorktown, while at the same time assembling off Pearl.
Very well done, and looking forward to more!
A further bit of information on the air crews of Shokaku and Zuikaku was that their Flight crews were leavened with the bulk of the IJN's flight instructors .... losses among these would have had a very negative impact on the training of further replacements.
The IJN torpedo bombers will have a very rough time with an alerted defence, as they have to approach over a a goodly portion of ships. I wouldn't expect many to survive in the group coming in from the east in particular.
About the only mistake I can see so far is that you have USS Helena sailing with the Lexington/Yorktown, while at the same time assembling off Pearl.
Very well done, and looking forward to more!
I am really enjoying this TL.
Thanks for the reference to Kenney's book; fascinating read (especially the anecdotes).
IIRC (perhaps from Prange and or other sources), the entrance to Pearl Harbor was protected by netting against the entrance of submarines. Best estimate I have seen is that the Japanese minisub entered the harbor about 07:00 when the net was opened to allow entrance of two minesweepers. In any event, why would Richardson be worried about subsurface attack within Pearl Harbor? Strikes me as pretty low on the list.
Repositioning the outer row and putting a DD alongside is a clever move, but where will they go? There really isn't any place left in the harbor for them to moor, so I guess they would anchor somewhere north or northeast of Ford Island, but there isn't much room there (perhaps scatter them around, but it seems pretty tricky maneuvering for the middle of the night). Perhaps one or two could tie up pierside at the submarine base?
I would have thought he might sortie one BATDIV (but I am not the author).
Thanks for the reference to Kenney's book; fascinating read (especially the anecdotes).
IIRC (perhaps from Prange and or other sources), the entrance to Pearl Harbor was protected by netting against the entrance of submarines. Best estimate I have seen is that the Japanese minisub entered the harbor about 07:00 when the net was opened to allow entrance of two minesweepers. In any event, why would Richardson be worried about subsurface attack within Pearl Harbor? Strikes me as pretty low on the list.
Repositioning the outer row and putting a DD alongside is a clever move, but where will they go? There really isn't any place left in the harbor for them to moor, so I guess they would anchor somewhere north or northeast of Ford Island, but there isn't much room there (perhaps scatter them around, but it seems pretty tricky maneuvering for the middle of the night). Perhaps one or two could tie up pierside at the submarine base?
I would have thought he might sortie one BATDIV (but I am not the author).
A 16" Naval gun shell conversion if I remember right. Right off the Nagato class if so would guess.
Those were older WW 1 vintage torpedoes, those things actually worked.Mk-10s I believe
Truman fired him,FDR should have fired him,Hoover should have hung him.
So just to be clear in my head, there's 3 US carriers in the area along with the ground based support from Hawaii itself. The thing is this could be good and bad for the US. If the fleet is alert then the IJN's flyers are going to encounter a lot more flak, but if the fleets at sea, the sheer numbers will tell and unlike the shallow waters of the harbour, any ship sunk outside it is lost, period, no salvage, nothing. And as tough as they are the Standards are not going to react too well to torpedo hits. The US BB's also can't catch the IJN and they are basically going to be worth more as flak traps drawing in Japanese planes trying to attack them than as any combat unit.
But, damn superb update, excellent ratcheting up of the tempo and tension!
But, damn superb update, excellent ratcheting up of the tempo and tension!
the Blue,Helm and Ward are patrolling outside the harbor, beyond the torpedo net at this point
which was also opened to let the Leary task group out
luckily the midget subs were still not in the area yet at this point
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