The Anglo/American - Nazi War - The on-going mystery
- Thread starter CalBear
- Start date
Their leaders are guys who were foot soldiers in the 1940s and 50s in our timeline, so we don't know the leaders
I can't see Cabal could wait longer than to mid-2020's or otherwise their whole society is collapsing.
I can't see bioweapon working like they wanted. It would be disastrous but not that effective as Cabal wanted. A4 will quickly develope vaccines and try ensure that whole world is vaccinated. Hopefully ITTL is not too much of anti-vax people.
But for China this is worse. When A4 realises what did happen, it will launch such wrath that Stettin would be just warming up. Due nuclear/orbital bombing and famines most of Chinese people will perish. China will be divided to smaller nations.
This too would mean final end to Soviet Union. For its final fate I can see next scenarios:
1. Completely incorporated by Russia.
2. Sakha and Buryatia become independent but rest of the counry is annexed by Russia.
3. Just new regime over former Soviet Union and it is re-named as Siberian Federation.
4. Same as above but Sakha and Buryatia gain independence.
I think thats silly
If a pathogen of that scale was released there's no way they could even work on a vaccine in time, let alone vaccinate the whole word "except the anti vaxxers"
If China releases it billions will die, period, its biohazard WW3
Their mistake is not thinking a disease could kill that many people before the A4 retaliates, it can and will if they go through with it and there wont he a A4 afterwards
The mistake is
A) Thinking the A4 isnt aware of it or at very least will uncover such plans before they can release it and bomb the heck out of the place
B) Thinking a disease can be made ethnically blind, unless all of their billions of citizens are vaccinated to mimick Old World immunity(since they want to pull a Columbian Exchange) their atempt at creating a disease that does not target Han people will fail, and trying to vaccinate that many people goes back to point A
C) Thinking that such a mortal disease wouldnt mutate and start killing Han people anyway despite previously not affecting them or they being vaccinated, as Covid shows us that mutation is a bitch and old vaccines can get outdated rather quickly
So yeah the Cabal's masterplan is doomed, but not because the A4 can counter it if it happened by spawning vaccination everywhere
Spawning vaccines everywhere would take at least a decade even with advances in transportation. We also don’t know how many would die, the author mentions at least several billion people. The one who would certainly be hit the hardest would be Africa (I don’t think there's been any mention in any advances on the continent except somehow pro-British functioning Liberal Democracies). Asia would likely recover but would be a huge blow as they’re close to China. Europe being dominated by the A-4 would be slow to react and recover. The Americas being more prosperous at a while would probably be more competent than OTL at stopping this plague. Most of Oceania would recover as long as Australia/New Zealand react quickly. Cabal is likely going to be nuked by every country with the weapons, and will likely be hated by everyone in the aftermath (in return the survivors will likely be hateful back).
Han Chinese nationalism to be specific? But with a blend of revanchism and chauvinism.
Its total policy is described something like this. Han Chinese ultranationalism with strong Nazi themes (master race, evil foreign other responsible for all of the countries woes, contempt of minorities, disdain for religion, nationalism as a state culture, extreme xenophobia, highly sexist) without calling it that. It’s a massive North Korea/Nazi hybrid whose revanchism is not limited to just one area (Korea) but the entire planet. It’s big difference from the Nazis is that it’s highly pragmatic, tactful, and very patient in getting what it wants. The Cabal has no (crippling) delusions of martial superiority over its enemies, being able to learn from its mistakes (the Korea Intervention). It’s also very isolationist in ways North Korea isn’t (North Korea for one picks sides often in IOTL, has under the table communication with the south, and had dealings in Uganda during the Cold War), it holds no serious engagement with the outside world except India and the USSR (with Stettin and Korea meddling being the exception).
It’s banking its entire ideology and lifespan on creating a weapon to destroy all non-Han Chinese life, with the remaining non-Han Asians likely being Cabal’s temporary slaves before being exterminated General Government style.
Last edited:
No, more like everything the above commenter said, its Nazism with Chinese Characteritics, the Mao to Hitler's Stalin
They're both smarter than the nazis in picking their fights and more insane in what they hope to accomplish
Their whole ideology comes down to seeing the entire Planet Earth as Lebensraum and dedicating their entire existence as a nation to manufacturing something capable of doing to the world what the european diseases did to native americans so that they can accomplish just that;
Total and complete extermination
George Carty
Banned
Come to think of it, wasn't German Nazism basically a project to turn Eastern Europe into something resembling the western frontier of 19th-century America?
Pretty much
They plagiarised Manifest Destiny and put it on overdrive, wanting to do it on a industrial scale
George Carty
Banned
And presumably the Chinese Cabal ITTL understand that the Nazis failed because (unlike the colonizers of the Americas) they didn't have diseases to do the vast majority of the killing for them?
That and fighting half the world instead of just letting said diseases do their thing
I presented the plot of the cabal to a sinophile academic friend, and he said that the closest we have OTL to that is the Falun Gong.
But isn't the Falun Gong not an expansionist? And they too are oppressed by the CCP?
They ain't genocidal too. Basically they are the closest but they still are very far away.
Aren't the Falun Gong some sorta yoga group? Not surprised that you got that reaction if he is a sinophile though.
They’re a new religious movement. Falun Gong was founded by its leader Li Hongzhi in China in the early 1990s. Their stated core principles are Truthfulness, Benevolence (compassion), and Forbearance (tolerance), and it aims at bringing practitioners to a higher level of morality through cultivation of these principles and doing the exercises. Chinas reaction to that was aiming to eradicate the practice (believing them to be an evil cult or something). “Falun Gong practitioners throughout China continue to be detained, imprisoned, tortured, and sometimes killed in what is still a massive campaign of religious persecution”. So I’m not surprised the Sinophile decided to tell him that. Though on the other hand it’s also sceptical if the Falun Gong was being entirely truthful in what they say and do.
Look, that guy is very rational and critical of the CCP, but he says that the Falun Gong is a han supremacist group and it is very dangerous
This is drifting into modern politics so I won't persue it further
I practice Falun Gong. Its teachings are basically Buddhist and Daoist in nature (and no, not of the "Yellow Turban rebellion" sort) so things like notions of racial superiority or political power don't come into the picture at all. Due to a combination of cultural unfamiliarity and CCP propaganda, there is a huge amount of misconceptions about what Falun Gong is or isn't, so I'm not surprised even Sinophiles think it is another Taiping waiting to happen.
To reroute the discussion away from non-AH, I'd say that something like the Cabal would actually be a fairly novel development for Chinese history, no less than what communism was IOTL. As far as I'm concerned these guys would have to had made the idea of a "Han race" (itself largely an invention of modern times) so central to their ideology that it diminishes all of the philosophy and religion that came before it. It seems the idea ITTL is that the Cabal sprang forth from the KMT but it could just as well be the result of a Juche-like branch of the CCP seizing the reins.
Last edited: